Talk:Video game controversies

Age

I've rewritten this section. It didn't make sense to quote statistics without qualification while at the same time state that there are no reliable statistical sources. In fact, on that note, somebody with some background knowledge (and/or spare time) should probably look into the reliability of the ESA on an issue, when, from what I understand, one of the principal reasons for its existence is to lobby on behalf of games companies.Aquamonkey (talk) 04:48, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Xbox Live Headset: Racism and Homophobia

i think there should be a section about the racism going on on Xbox Live through headset, and using homophobic language, where 90% of players are racist-SCB '92 (talk) 14:09, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Has this been discussed in reliable sources? AzureFury (talk | contribs) 15:04, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

No, there's nothing racist about that. It's called smack-talk, taunting, or whatever you want to call it.

It affects straight white people just as much as minorities, only most straight white people don't draw the Racist-card at any opportune moment.

Being a minority doesn't exempt one from the simple fact of life that anyone is open to being taunted, smack-talked or 'insulted'.

If you're gonna add something like this to the article, you might as well add 'hardships of life' to any Wikipedia article.

Just grow up and accept life as it is for everyone. GameLegend (talk) 11:56, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

I noticed the section about Brazil and its several game bans do not longer exist, why it got removed? Other articles still reference this, but when I land here, poof, it is not here anymore. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.48.131.214 (talk) 00:26, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Article Opening

Currently, the article opens with an in-depth report of Craig Anderson's 2001 study on the link between video gaming and aggression, yet nowhere does it explicitly mention that he is the lead researcher on the study, presumably because he's fairly discredited as is mentioned later in the article. This seems, if one were to give this the benefit of the doubt, a glaring oversight. The Anderson study needs to be either stricken from the opening of the article, thinned down considerably, or moved and the numerous detractors of the study (Cumberbatch is a prime example) should be cited. The BBC gives a cursory to and fro between the two men over the study here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/720707.stm

I have also noted that this same Anderson study is repeated, along with the fact that it was used in court, numerous times throughout this article. It need only be mentioned once.

It has now been some days without an objection, I am going ahead with the proposed changes. (BGH122 (talk) 04:58, 29 December 2010 (UTC))

Agreed —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.91.78.232 (talk) 19:13, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

I've removed a random quote of his which would be considered controversial in the field. If it is to remain, it would be imperative to have counter quotes from other notable researchers, otherwise this strays into POV.

MV Guy —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.91.78.232 (talk) 19:32, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

I agree BGH122, the Anderson study should not be so in-depth in the intro, merely summarized. Although I think it is well worded but it could be moved into another section ("Anderson studies"?) where all the Anderson related references could be moved to and merged into something understandable. The claim that other studies have produced specific counter evidence should be explained properly in the article. That's the challenge for us, to understand how all the studies relate to each other and whether they do contradict each other. If so how? As MP Guy and I were talking about, maybe we could set up a for and against type of structure. Freelion (talk) 05:58, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

I'd definitely second a for and against structure, it's currently all over the place and rambling. (BGH122 (talk) 04:18, 18 January 2011 (UTC))

On a different note, I think this part of the opening is questionable: "Many potential positive effects have even been proposed.[4]" The reference is a blog whose points don't relate to violent video games, simply video games in general. The only point that addresses violence in the blog post does not have any kind of study linked to it. For this article, it seems tangential. 98.235.70.168 (talk) 04:15, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

section on biology and aggression

I've removed a section on "biology and aggression" that seemed both off-topic and nonsensical. Talking about Charles Manson in an article on video games makes no sense (since video games were not substantially around when he committed his crimes. Further a section on biology and aggression should be in an article on biology and aggression where it is more relevant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.91.78.232 (talk) 19:15, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

I reinserted it without the unnecessary reference to Charles Manson. This section is not off topic but it could be rewritten. Freelion (talk) 01:49, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

References relating to research done by Anderson

Anderson has mostly concluded in his research that video games do increase aggression. Anderson's methods may have been criticized by some but his conclusions have not been discredited. Instead of deleting these references, it would serve the article better to provide any counter arguments to his conclusions or research which contradicts his findings.Freelion (talk) 02:10, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

That's probably a fair enough point. Let me see what I can do. I think what others have concluded is that the page shouldn't be all about one author. Let me see what I can do to retain as much as you have without overemphasizing a single researcher. That way we're not fighting each other too!  :) 69.91.78.232 (talk) 06:20, 4 January 2011 (UTC)MV Guy

I'd argue his conclusions have been pretty well discredited by now, but I've just added in some counter arguments by other scholars. I think at this point, readers have plenty of references to both sets of sources and can make up their own minds. 69.91.78.232 (talk) 07:07, 4 January 2011 (UTC)MV Guy

Good work Tex. I just reduced the intro a bit, keeping it brief and easy to understand. What do you think about creating a "for and against" type format for the article? At the moment there are so many studies all mixed up. The positive effects section could also be expanded. Freelion (talk) 01:59, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

I think things look good. The pro/con idea sounds intuitive too and would be less jumbled as you mentioned. If you want to give a shot at reorganizing, I'll take a look at what you come up with. Nice job though, overall. 69.91.78.232 (talk) 03:16, 5 January 2011 (UTC) MV Guy

Oh, I've got some references for a "positives" section as well, mostly work by C. Shawn Green and Ian Spence, although there are others (lots of surgery studies by various authors) in the cognitive realm. Give it a shot, and then I can add anything that seems missing. And of course it's only fair to point out any limitations to that body of literature too. 69.91.78.232 (talk) 03:19, 5 January 2011 (UTC)MV Guy (I might like "Tex" though, heh).

Sorry MV Guy! I don't understand how it signs your name with an IP number followed by MV Guy. Is that because you are not logged in? Freelion (talk) 03:27, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm lazy. I just use the four tildes to sign I tried to demonstrate, but no matter how I do it, it autosigns, so I give up. Tex is just fine too, I'm flexible.  :) 69.91.78.232 (talk) 05:22, 5 January 2011 (UTC)MV "Tex" Guy

Dumb question

"On April 14, 2009, 9-year-old Damori Miles of Brooklyn, New York City died after jumping from his apartment roof using a makeshift parachute in an imitation of Jeff Hardy in WWE Smackdown vs. Raw 2009."

The source provided doesn't indicates that the kid may have jumped because of the video game. This indicates that that he may not have jumped imitating a video game. His friends indicated that he had done so. He didn't say this because he saw or talked to him before he did it. The source indicates that the kid that said he did it for this reason was the kid who's play date that Damori had missed. This is assumption on his friends part based solely on the fact that Damori played the video game.

The source indicates that Damori was a wrestling fan. Watching wrestling and Jeff Hardy in real life could have caused this. It could not have caused this. This is conjecture on my part. the video game was conjecture on his friends part but this paraphrased quotation indicates that it's definite that the video game caused this. You need a source to say that definitively if you are going to say it definitively. You do not have such a source.70.15.191.119 (talk) 01:52, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

I agree with this. There's nothing to say the incident was solely related to the video game and not to watching the actual Jeff Hardy on television. Smiliarly, the incidents in the same list concerning the young girl confusing a Wii remote with a pistol, and the woman who died of water intoxication on a radio contest are quite dubious additions - the handgun incident is much more of an gun control and parenting issue, it's only incidental that a Wii remote was involved; while the radio contest is much more of a publicity stunt debate, as the incident would likely have happened regardless of the prize. It's pretty tenuous to connect these two incidents, and the aforementioned one, to video games specifically. GRAPPLE X 20:20, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Suggested Link

So, I wrote an article on research into the benefits of parents and children playing video games together, which I think contributes to the scientific discussion. I'm not allowed to request a link to it myself, however, as I could make money of it. Here's why I feel justified writing this: (1) if I made money, it would almost certainly be just a few pennies (abt. 2/3 cent per pageview); (2) I have written several articles on the "paid" site, and this is the only one I feel contributes to Wikipedia's goals; (3) I have contributed to several Wikipedia articles over several years, demonstrating that I truly care about spreading knowledge. Search for "The latest research: Can multiplayer video games be a force for good?"
Feel free to put in a special request for a link if you agree that it is useful. I'd suggest using it as a source under "Potential positive effects of video games," third paragraph, first sentence. ("Several studies have explored the possible benefits of multiplayer video games in a family setting.") I apologize if I'm breaking any rule by posting this. I have exactly one ulterior motive: I want my writing to be useful. Statesman 88 (talk) 19:16, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

We appreciate your interest in the topic and in this page. However, wiki has rules about the use of original research. Was this paper published in a reputable peer-reviewed journal? How the paper was produced and who has vetted it will determine whether it's able to be used. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.65.34.182 (talk) 13:28, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

What controversy? It is already proven!

Let's say we open Google Scholar. We type "violent video game" and this is what we get in the very first two pages:

Aldo L (talk) 05:09, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Yes, very useful indeed, I have deleted all the links that you have spammed this page with, did you actually go and see what they referred to? They are all links to books or studies about WHETHER video games cause agressive behaviour, and, if you actually stopped to click on the links that were readable, you would find that several studies present for and against arguments, with no definite conclusion at the end.

Wikipedia is about neutral point of view, the lead-in to this article summarizes the positions of different factions and is well-referenced. If you have found the definitive study that proves violent video games make people agressive then you are most welcome to quote from it here and/or give us the reference. Captain Screebo (talk) 13:27, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Agreed with Captain Screebo for what it is worth. Links between video games and negative (and positive outcomes) continue to be hotly debate. They are not proven one way or another. Avalongod (talk) 00:21, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Avalongod that this is still a controversy as there is not a consensus about whether the effects are small or large. However, I also agree with Aldo L that recent scientific studies do all seem to agree there is some kind of effect. The debate now is whether it is large or small. I do feel like this page is a bit biased in that it ignores this fact. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.157.248.163 (talk) 06:36, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Question about GTA: Vice City controversy stated

Alright, this has been bugging me for a little while now. I understand Wikipedia has some form of language control, to be more polite, but in quotes I presume that it's acceptable to not censor much. In the paragraph describing Grand Theft Auto: Vice City's controversial statement about killing Haitians, I saw it said "Fuck the Haitian Dick heads." But later I checked (today) and it said "Kill the Haitian idiots." Any reason or just to censor the wording? (PS, if I wrote something wrong, correct it for clarification, I haven't really played the game in a very long period)

NPOV

I know it's meant to be a list of items that fuel the flames, but the idea of it alone is obviously biased. I feel like this is completely anti-video games and contain no pro-video games events, such as the supreme court not hearing the case about video game sales? Imasleepviking ( talk ) 00:31, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

possible merger

I suggest we might want to merge the category "video game behavioral effects" with this one. they are pretty redundant, and the other page is very poorly written with lots of POV issues and such. I think most of that other page can be removed with the positive bits added in here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.188.10.153 (talk) 02:10, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

I just went to the "video game behavioral effects" page and was redirected back to this page. So it looks like the pages have been merged. I was curious to see if you were correct about needing to merge the two sites and do away with a lot of the POV. Muuadeeb (talk)MuuadeebMuuadeeb (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 05:10, 10 September 2011 (UTC).

I've checked it and nothing at all has actually been merged from video game behavioral effects article into this one, so I've reverted the other article's blanking. Diego (talk) 11:43, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

I just checked out the other page. It does appear to have serious POV issues and is very redundant with this one. The only unique section I could see was on theoretical perspectives (although it only covered the GAM). I've moved that over here. Anything else I might have missed, I'd say just move over here, but I think it would be on the order of individual studies, not sections. All sections seem represented here already. I'm redoing the merge. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.91.76.208 (talk) 06:59, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Melbournestar wasn't sure about the merger so letting him look things over and give feedback. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.91.76.208 (talk) 07:22, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Ok, so I merged in some stuff on both positive and negative effects that didn't appear to be redundant to me. I'll leave it at this point so people can look over both pages and give feedback. Anything else you don't think is redundant I'd say just go ahead and move in. I'll plan to do the merge itself soon. 69.91.76.208 (talk)MVGuy —Preceding undated comment added 14:34, 6 November 2011 (UTC).

Alright, as noted above, I moved over material on positive and negative effects that wasn't redundant as well as material related to theories. I think I got what wasn't redundant. 69.91.76.211 (talk) MVGuy —Preceding undated comment added 04:54, 9 November 2011 (UTC).

Quotations

Can some please fix the opening and closing quotation marks in the first paragraph of the Crime and Violence Section (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_controversy#Crime_and_violence)

I have copied the unclear portion below

One of the most common criticisms of video games is that they increase the violent tendencies among youth.[1][19][20] However, several major studies by groups such as The Harvard Medical School Center for Mental Health, The Journal of Adolescent Health, and The British Medical Journal have shown no conclusive link between video game usage and violent activity."[21][22][23] One study did find an increase in reports of bullying, noting, "Our research found that certain patterns of video game play were much more likely to be associated with these types of behavioral problems than with major violent crime such as school shootings.[21][22] One of the first widely accepted controversial video games was developer Exidy's 1976 title Death Race, in which players controlled cars that ran over pixelated representations of "gremlins". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.91.71.15 (talk) 00:11, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Merger of Effects of video games on academic performance

Another user proposed a merge (http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Effects_of_video_games_on_academic_performance&diff=452654149&oldid=452559787) of Effects of video games on academic performance to this article. To give my view, I oppose it and moreover support deletion of it, as the article is nothing but POV-pushing and likely copyvios/plagiarism, as noted on Talk:Effects of video games on academic performance. I plan to WP:PROD that article on those grounds. –MuZemike 21:34, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

I originally proposed merge, because the content has some references, that may be used. Some material is just facts without interpretation, so I thought there may be usable references. But don't get me wrong thoguh, the article itself appears to be an essay/thesis with clear bias. —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 07:00, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

Went to look at the page but its already been deleted. 69.91.76.208 (talk)MVGuy —Preceding undated comment added 07:27, 5 November 2011 (UTC).

Social Cognitive Theory

The section labled above had been added by another user. This long section was highly POV and used considerable advocacy language (as well as numerous cites from advocacy groups). The view of a few scholars (Anderson, Gentile) who it has been pointed out elsewhere in the article has been criticized was presented uncritically, without noting counter arguments. Although the section could conceivably be edited to be more balanced, I suspect the resultant section would merely mirror arguments elsewhere, so I'm not sure anything but redundancy would result. The views of Anderson and others have already been presented in this article, as have views of scholars rebutting their positions. No need to rehashI think. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.91.76.208 (talk) 05:50, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

As a further note, to Rsiskar, who authored the section I removed. If there is new material you feel would add to the section on crime, which I think is where most of the redundancies occur, why not just add some stuff (not a whole new section) in there? I wouldn't add in a ton, and not the stuff from advocacy agencies. I'll check for whatever I feel should be balanced by other material and add that? The result would probably continue the balanced view this page has tried to take on this controversial topic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.91.76.208 (talk) 06:39, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

MW3 November 2011 French truck robbery

Nothing has gone to suggest that this robbery had been inspired by any games whatsoever. It seems far more likely that the trucks were robbed simply because the 6000 games they were carrying would equal €360,000 worth of merchandise; moreover, the fact that the robbers were armed and went specifically for these particular trucks goes to suggest that they were professional thieves with a clear plan. Furthermore the statement is completely unsourced in addition to being seemingly unrelated to the article, so removed for now. --77.215.75.103 (talk) 17:02, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

NPOV

I find that there is a lack of Neutrality. It all looks on the one side but looks a little on the other(Pro-Game). Look at the abortion controversy page, it shows two of the sides,(more or less equally.) Perhaps we should re-write the page? 67.204.236.189 (talk) 22:36, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Saw that someone posted concerns about NPOV a little while back, with no response thus I posted the template. 67.204.236.189 (talk) 22:43, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

I think it is better than it has been at times in the past. Nonetheless I'm willing to consider and help with a rewrite.