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Talk:MEST (Scientology)

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 60.225.114.230 (talk) at 09:50, 7 April 2012 (→Relation to Einstein: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Racism

Does anyone feel that the author of the "Blacks and MEST" section as biased towards making Hubbard look like a racist? RUL3R (talk) 22:44, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't really matter what motive led to the material being placed in the article; what matters is whether it belongs in the article. Hubbard made his statements about the relationship that "a negro ... down south" had to MEST in order to illustrate the nature of MEST; today it still illuminates the concept, and the fact that what it illuminates about the concept is something that modern Scientologists find uncomfortable cannot justify taking it out. -- 65.78.13.238 (talk) 19:53, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The question must be, is it the only example Hubbard used? If he had a lot to say about MEST and this is the only one we mention, it does seem a case of cherry picking quotes to make Hubbard look bad to me. If not, then it's probably fine Nil Einne (talk) 23:00, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure what relevance the motivation of the editor is, but I get your point. I don't think it matters at all whether it puts hubbard in a good light or not. If we presume this is the only time he ever mentioned blacks, then so what? I don't see that counseling against inclusion of a verifiable, relevant, and illuminating piece of info. If your going to argue it gives undue weight to one quote which gives an inaccurate picture, then fine, but this would have nothing to do with the motivations of the editor nor the way in which hubbard comes off.--Δζ (talk) 01:29, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Racists Mother F**ker, L Ron was a racists MEST F**ker, cracker — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.241.37.187 (talk) 21:52, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Somewhat related to this is the removal of Hubbard's quotes without discussion, not once but twice. The material was in the article for over 1.5 years when it removed (for no stated reason) in April. I reverted back, but some guy named Benj or Benji or something said that was vandalism and removed it again! Section blanking is vandalism (especially without stating why) folks! If you have a problem with what Hubbard said about black people and MEST, then talk about how to improve it here! The quotes are cited, they talk about MEST. Geez! 76.120.66.57 (talk) 06:35, 30 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A good article, if there isn't one on that, could be "Scientology and Race" or "Scientology and Racism" or "L. Ron Hubbard And Race/Racism", etc. And such a comment by Hubbard might fit well in that article - although even better would be secondary sources which discuss his or Scientology's attitudes towards race. But I think, in an article about a rather different issue (Scientology's theories about the nature of the material universe), it is a bit out of place to bring that issue up. Surely another quote could be found from Hubbard about MEST, and that quote could be saved for an article about race specifically???? 10:48, 9 March 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.225.114.230 (talk)

This article could use some expansion

At the moment, it essentially just defines the term 'MEST', and then gives a quote from L. Ron Hubbard about black people. It doesn't make it remotely clear what the concept really is, or what role it plays in Scientology. Can anyone help with this? Robofish (talk) 22:40, 4 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, however, there aren't very many third-party publications that spend much time talking about MEST. It's not even talked about much in Scientology literature. Someone who has access to material that is contemporary with Hubbard would be the best source. The Hubbard quote in the article only exists because someone from outside (or who left) the church saved an audio recording of Hubbard and that piece became widely distributed. Official Scientology material that actually dates back that far has been revised heavily, making it barely the same thing it was 30-60 years ago.76.120.66.57 (talk) 04:59, 16 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relation to Einstein

Are there any sources detailing Einstein's influence on Hubbard on this point? Especially since the early days of Scientology coincide, roughly, with when Einstein's first entered mainstream consciousness. MEST refers to relativity, since Matter-Energy-Space-Time - relativity claims that both Matter-Energy and Space-Time are each respectively part of a single whole (Matter-Energy: E=MC^2), Space-Time (Minkowski spacetime). And that is special relativity; general relativity adds that Matter-Energy bends Space-Time, or is the curvature of Space-Time, and so Matter-Energy and Space-Time are further unified. So Hubbard is listing four things which classical physics tends to see as significant, but largely distinct, aspects of reality, while relativity sees the four as much more closely connected, in some ways as different aspects of a unified whole. 60.225.114.230 (talk) 09:50, 7 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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