Talk:Abu Qatada al-Filistini

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Abu Qatada al-Filistini article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

This article has not yet been rated on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Biography

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
	An appropriate infobox may need to be added to this article. Please refer to the list of biography infoboxes for further information.
	An editor has requested that an image or photograph be added to this article.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Jordan

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Jordan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Jordan on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.JordanWikipedia:WikiProject JordanTemplate:WikiProject JordanJordan

???

This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Tasks YOU can help with:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Islam

	Islam portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Islam, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Islam-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IslamWikipedia:WikiProject IslamTemplate:WikiProject IslamIslam-related
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Crime and Criminal Biography

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Crime and Criminal Biography: Terrorism

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Terrorism task force.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

United Kingdom

	United Kingdom portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United Kingdom, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.United KingdomWikipedia:WikiProject United KingdomTemplate:WikiProject United KingdomUnited Kingdom
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Expanding article

I have started to redo this piece and bring it up to a standard befitting such a champion of al-Qaeda and Londonistan. LDH 12:51, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Patience, folks. More coming.LDH 16:03, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Removed an unsourced, unverifiable, and apparently untrue, sentence

I removed this unsourced sentence:

Abu Qatada is frequently cited – always with approval – in the 2004 al-Qaeda policy paper called Management of Savagery.

This looks like original research, since googling for 'Abu Qatada' 'Management of Savagery' comes up with nothing that says that he's mentioned in the paper. It also appears to be a lie, in that I downloaded a pdf copy of Management of Savagery (see the wiki page for links to it), converted it to text and tried grepping for 'Qatada' and 'Omar' and 'Mahmoud' and 'Othman' and found absolutely nothing. If this article is going to be a target for disinformation, I reckon that's a cue for me to come back to this article at a later date and ruthlessly excise anything that isn't properly sourced with page numbers and whatnot.--Aim Here 22:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

More unsourced stuff

I slapped a 'fact' tag on this passage, but I've a sneaking suspicion it might be false, in that I've only found a mere blog posting claiming that he was the editor while someone else issued a fatwa declaring the Algerian people to be 'kufr' [1]. Anyone got any reliable sources that back up the rather sensationalist wording of the article, or even the less exciting version in the blog?

While free in the UK Abu Qatada was the editor-in-chief of GIA's Al-Ansar magazine, and contributed fatwas to that magazine authorizing the indiscriminate mass murder of random Algerians. (Mustafa Setmariam Nasar was an editor and contributor at the same time, when he too was in England with political refugee status.)

Aim Here 10:39, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Legal status

I am not happy with the recent addition of the Court of Appeal case on the potential deportation of Qatada; it looks much like a copy/paste job from the BBC website. Any objections to removal? Let me know Ben stephenson (talk) 21:31, 9 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Palestinian

An IP has edited "...is a Palestinian Islamist militant".

There is actually a Wiki article Definitions of Palestinian and on the basis of that I suppose it's accurate from a strictly ethnic point of view. However I have misgivings given that a majority of UN nations accept that there is a State of Palestine and calling him Palestinian suggests he is a citizen of that state. But he is not, he is Jordanian and what is at issue presently is whether he can be safely deported to his native Jordan.

I also frankly suspect a "he's a Palestinean, so let's call him a Palestinian" agenda here. I don't know what Wikipedia crieria are, but common sense suggests that the tag is only really appropiate if Mr. Qatada identifies himself publicly as a Palestinian (and indeed whether his fellow Palestineans endorse that identification) and he has not. Opening paragraph guidance in that case is that ethnicity should not be mentioned. Moreover I can find no recent identifications of him in the media as Palestinean, indeed just the one CBS caption for a file photo dating from 2001.

I'm therefore reverting the edits and ask the IP to bring the issue here. 81.178.38.169 (talk) 19:18, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Chicago IP is persisting with Palestinean origin in lede. I'm leaving it since Sky News has recently led with "Palestinean" covering Qatada's release on bail. JabbarWales (talk) 04:32, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Chicago IP is persistently blanking, soapboxing etc. I've reverted but we are out of here now. Done our bit :). JabbarWales (talk) 08:55, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's now "a Palestinian Islamist militant of Jordanian citizenship" :). I would have preferred "a Jordanian Islamist militant of Palestinean origin" if we must reach some compromise that includes "Palestinean", but I'm not going to sully myself with the edit. It's an essentially racist remark, rather like saying (à propos of strictly nothing concerning the possible origin of the IP) "Melanie Phillips is a Jewish Daily Mail journalist of British nationality". However I am aware that around 62,218,761 people in the UK are of the opion that our Abu is the nastiest piece of shit ever to wash up on our shores and I have to say I can see where they are coming from there, so I think I'll just let it go and let one our of teenage would-be editors cut their teeth on it ... I'm pleasantly surprised, incidentally, how disciplined the community has been here. Just the single one inch generative organ so far :).

Finished here too. 81.178.38.169 (talk) 17:14, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Link 13

This links to a profile of Abu Hamza who is a different person.Streona (talk) 10:08, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Streona. Yes, I was puzzled by that at first when I was reviewing the article, but in fact it does mention Qatada, indirectly supporting the article's assertion:"Diyab presented Abu Hamza as an example of an Islamist who had relinquished violence, citing Abu Hamza's call in 1997 not to obey the fatwa issued by another London fundamentalist, the Palestinian-Jordanian Abu Qatada who had called upon Muslims to kill the wives and children of Egyptian police and army officers as part of the struggle in Arab countries."

The Middle East Media Research Institute is a questionable Reliable Source (RS) I should say (partisan, willing to wager that J's Chicago IP above is them :)) and I did consider scrapping the citation and providing another, but in fact I couldn't find one, other than sources (including his SIAC hearings) referencing fatwas he issued advocating the killing of women and children but not mentioning the specific context: I suspect Algeria rather than Egypt.

In the end I left it. Much of that section worries me. When I was trying to source the various assertions, especially the sermons in Atta's Hamburg flat, I got the queasy feeling that many of them were in fact relying on the Wiki article! 81.178.38.169 (talk) 12:58, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Background and Imprisonment (bold edit 15 February 2012)etc.

Really nice edit by User:CN3777. Appreciated. In places perhaps verging on personal reflection but I did like it. Many thanks. Didn't have the time or the skill myself. 81.178.38.169 (talk) 17:53, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The edits by User:Iloveandrea of 29 Feb seem to have a political bias. This is shown by the deletion of my citation to the Daily Mail with the comment "(No. There is no way the Mail can be regarded as a credible source on anything to to with terrorism, Muslims, immigrants, etc.)". I am no fan of the paper myself, but it may be from here (and only here) that the words used in the text come - I searched to find it. Removing the citation because the editor thinks a commonly read newspaper cannot be trusted on a topic, is political bias and probably libellous. I shall put the citation back, if Iloveandrea can find a better citation then maybe it could be replaced. There was also a change made by this editor with the comment " (So long, Migration Toss! you far-Right, anti-immigrant collection of nutjobs! I've replaced the citation with something worth more than nothing.) ". This is going much too far.Myrvin (talk) 20:28, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Also the citation from the Times was a word-for-word quotation beginning "Britain ignored warnings ", but had not been given quotation marks. A change was soon made to change the word 'hid' to 'apparently been hiding', which were not in the Times article. You cannot warp words from a citation to suit your own bias. Myrvin (talk) 20:44, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed the following:

Qatada became a potent figure in the Islamic intellectual community in London in the 1990s and became a leading member of the group, Al-Muhajiroun, led by the militant clerics Omar Bakri Muhammad and Anjem Choudary. He was imam at a mosque in north London and built up a strong following by preaching across the capital.[citation needed]

I cannot find these assertions anywhere, and he is not mentioned in the Al-Muhajiroun article. Myrvin (talk) 21:47, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Egyptian police

I have removed: "In 1997, Abu Qatada called upon Muslims to kill the wives and children of Egyptian police and army officers.[citation needed]". I can only find this assertion on a Jewish-American site[2]. Looks rather biased, and it was reported nowhere else before 2006. Myrvin (talk) 10:07, 2 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Death to Qatada!

deport the filth88.110.122.195 (talk) 10:25, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]