Talk:Annuit cœptis
Heraldry and vexillology Stub‑class | |||||||
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Latin Issues
a. Coepi is usually considered a defective verb in Latin; it lacks a present system. Most dictionaries will list the verb under coepi, coepisse, and perhaps that is what should be done here. Present forms such as "coepio" are rarely seen and are not classical. b. Pronunciation in classical Latin (as opposed to Anglicized Latin): 'an-noo-it 'koyp-tees. -T. Gnaevus Faber @ la wiki —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.75.246.15 (talk) 08:22, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
The Aeneid
I'm fairly certain these two phrases are taken directly from Virgil's Aeneid. Shouldn't that be mentioned? ~Neil
Redirect
Current version of the article is little more than a dictionary definition. I have redirected to List of Latin phrases#A. If/when someone has enough more to say to turn this into a full stand-alone article, please revert this redirect to the prior version. Rossami 21:49, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)
NPOV
The wording of this article exudes a bias using phrases such as "as some Right-Wingers want us to think". It is also in desperate need of wikification.glocks out 20:24, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
- Fixed. The problematic paragraph had been copied directly from its source, so I simply removed it and improved what was left. — Elembis 08:11, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
- Very good. glocks out 23:53, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
Pronounciation
How is this phrase pronounced? If someone can post a phonetic representation, I could attempt an IPA transliteration. =David(talk)(contribs) 16:41, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Question
Why is it, that every time I translate this phrase it comes up as "to obliterate to begin" or "Out of Chaos, Order"? Mika'el (talk) 22:17, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
Annuit coeptis = 13 letters
Symbolically, the phrase Annuit coeptis has 13 letters (as does E pluribus unum). This example of gematria (isopsephy) then represents the 13 colonies becoming the United States. (The back of the US 2010 penny features E pluribus unum and a shield with 13 vertical stripes.) The back of the US dollar includes these 13 letters among 13 symbolic references to the number 13. - p. 121, The Secret Symbols of the Dollar Bill by David Ovason (Harper Collins, 2004)
The ancient practice of Hebrew gematria/Greek isopsephy/Arabic Hisab al-Jummal (and modern Simple[6,74] English[7,74] Gematria[8,74]) appears to primarily concentrate on the gematric sums of words/names, i.e. Ruler=74 Sargon=74 (S19+a1+r18g7+o15+n14). But this is actually 'Step 2' of gematria(74). 'Step 1' of gematria(8) is simply counting the number of letters in a word/name/phrase. Because of Roman Numerals not coinciding with their place in the Latin Alphabet, i.e. I does not = 1, Latin gematria never gave much importance to Step 2 of gematric sum. But the learned Romans and other learned practioners of Latin did recognize Step 1 of counting the Latin letters and giving significance to it. This practice can be traced back to Plato's (Pythagoreans') use of "God is ever a geometer", which in Greek ἀεὶ ὁ Θεὸς ὁ μέγας γεωμετρεῖ equals 3,1,4,1,5,9 or 3.14159 π pi. - Brad Watson, Miami, FL 75.74.156.102 (talk) 13:17, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
The Significance of Thirteen Letters: This Is not in Dispute Among Experts
The rejection by Clindberg of the fact that the motto was chosen for having 13 letters runs counter to recent scholarship, official government explanations, and common sense. The seal contains the following:
- 13 stars in the crest
- 13 stripes in the shield
- 13 olive leaves
- 13 olives
- 13 arrows
- 13 feathers of the arrows
- 13 levels of stone in the Pyramid
- 13 letters in the motto E Pluribus Unum
Clindberg would have us to believe that the fact that Annuit Coeptis also has thirteen letters was purely by coincidence and that there is no evidence that it was chosen to fit the theme. However, the official government historians of the Great Seal. Patterson and Dougall, The Eagle and the Shield, published by the Department of State, 1976, makes it clear that the motto "Annuit Coeptis" was in fact chosen BECAUSE of the number of letters. There is consensus that Thomson drew the expression from Virgil, who wrote, "Jupiter omnipotens, audacibus annue cœptis." Patterson and Dougall explained that Thomson changed the expression to the third person in order to arrive at the thirteen letters (see Patterson & Dougall, cited by Hieronimus; Guillard Hunt, a previous historian of the State Dept. is also cited therein, The Great Seal of the United States, also published by the U.S. State Dept. http://books.google.com/books?id=NnVIt8rpkrcC&pg=PA111#v=onepage&q&f=false Clindberg suggests that the diphthong oe as printed on the dollar should be only counted as one letter. But no such single letter exists in Latin. Oe is a ligature, like the ampersand "&" (cursive "et") at best. It is found in no Latin alphabet as a singular letter in any age. The implication that Barton exchanged "Deo Favente" for "Annuit Coeptis" in order to excise "God" from the motto runs contrary to historical consensus of experts; it is likely a preferred alternative interpretation posed by those with a religious or anti-religious agenda. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hilltoppers (talk • contribs) 20:22, 10 June 2012 (UTC)