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Justin Bieber on Twitter

Justin Bieber on Twitter (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • Stats)
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This is not a notable topic. Notability is not inherited and twitter accounts like youtube videos or email address or stretch of highway or sites with many visitors simply do not carry on the notability of the artwork, city, highway, or person they are associated with. All the sources are about Justin Bieber not about his account itself, this could be merged into one sentence in his article and this article deleted as it is not notable at all. LuciferWildCat (talk) 07:24, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment AfD procedures require that The article's creator or other significant contributors should ideally be left a message at their talk page(s). This was not done, and I regard it as very poor form. Hawkeye7 (talk) 02:14, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speedy Keep Not all the sources are about the Twitter account. Some are about how ("random comments") or how often it is used ("Twitter addict"). Most are about what was written in it. For the sake of the normal use of modern English, I cannot really support taking Justin Bieber's name out of this article completely, but if one did so, it would still have import. This article is, at 70K, bigger than the Justin Bieber article at 62K. A merge is out of the question. Anarchangel (talk) 08:33, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It's not uncommon for famous people to have articles that are well over 150KB large. It's natural to have bios on popular people to have larger articles than those that are not. Personally, I would think the Justin Bieber article would have more stuff in it, just as I would expect with Lady Gaga or even Rihanna. --MuZemike 18:59, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep It's been rated a good article. Sourced, notable per press coverage, and the article is about the twitter account not just Bieber, despite what the proposer says. I know a lot of people hate Bieber and Twitter and think Wikipedia should only cover high-minded topics like Latin poetry, dead presidents, and Star Trek, but reflecting the decline of human civilisation to the level of bum-scratching apes is not a valid reason for deletion. --Colapeninsula (talk) 09:19, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep : The article has many reliable sources, very specifically the claims in national newspapers that he is the second most popular celebrity Twitter user (presumably in the world?), which counts as notable in my book. My personal opinion, however, can be summed up quite nicely with this - oh how I wish WP:IDONTLIKEIT was a valid argument to use for AfD at times like these. --Ritchie333 (talk) 10:15, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment I don't hate Justin Bieber he's very sexy actually and Twitter is something I use and love daily, nevertheless when you say in the defense of this article, "he is the second most popular celebrity Twitter" you are talking about Justin Bieber and not the account, this content should be merged into the Bieber article and summarized, it is not notable on its own weight and has a place on that article, notability is just not inherited. LuciferWildCat (talk) 14:06, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
          • Comment: 3% of the servers does not have to do with the specific account. The marketing aspects of it do not have to do with Bieber. There are a number of non-Bieber marketing sources talking about it. The academic sources talking about how his account were a central node of discussion around the Arab spring are not about Bieber, but the fans talking retweeting and commenting on content around it. --LauraHale (talk) 23:41, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Websites-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 13:52, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Keep This does not meet the same level of quality and in-depth focus of Ashton Kutcher's Twitter activity, but it does appear that his activity on Twitter gets unique and independent coverage that goes beyond mere detailing of what he's tweeting about.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 18:01, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete on principle. Really? The unfiltered musings of a teenage singer have their own page in an encyclopedia? Sometimes its best to ignore the rules lawyering, go for common sense, and just delete this fantarding nonsense. Hekerui (talk) 21:48, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Bieber, like most major public figures, has a notable impact on culture and society. How his activity on a major social networking service such as Twitter has enabled him to amplify that impact seems to me a matter "worthy of notice" and we have the sources to demonstrate as much. Maybe you fail to see the encyclopedic purpose of detailing how a specific person has influenced the use of a service or influenced society through said service, but I think there is a more-than-reasonable argument to be made that an article on a pop culture icon's social networking activities can and does serve as an informative insight into our fast-moving inter-connected culture in the Age of the Internet. Should you have issues with wording there is a way to address that.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 23:19, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as fancruft. This sets a sort of precedent for other silly, pop-culture articles; if we can keep this, why not create things about various other artists or (heaven forbid!) an artist outside the English-speaking world. The article may have reliable sources, but those sources are worthless if the topic is not notable. It has admittedly received significant coverage in reliable sources, but any out-of-the-ordinary remark a celebrity makes on Twitter will receive some coverage. I, like Ritchie333, wish that IDON'TLIKEIT were valid at this point. Interchangeable 23:06, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment: As I understand fancruft being something other than WP:IDONTLIKEIT, the article would be of extremely limited interest over a relatively obscure topic where there was limited sourcing. FuseTV mentioned the article on Twitter. The sources include ones in several languages including Romanian, Turkish and Italian. They also represent sources from the United States, the United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand and India. Justin Bieber has 25 million followers, more than the population of Australia. There are over 100 different sources including academic works, newspapers, popular culture works. I'm trying to understand what you are defining as fancruft here. Can you provide additional details? And if the article has that many reliable sources that would in most cases far exceed those required for notability elsewhere, then what is going on? The article goes beyond what Bieber's random blatherings on Twitter are. Please elaborate more? If necessary, I can work to improve the article to add any of the 3,000+ available WP:RS sources that do more than just mention random tweets Bieber made. --LauraHale (talk) 11:37, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as fancruft, ie, WP:FART.PumpkinSky talk 23:09, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as fancruft; let Wikia have it, though.
    Note, this has been listed at Wikipedia:Featured Article Candidates for Deletion. Br'er Rabbit (talk) 23:23, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: Article is reliably sourced. Article topic easily passes WP:GNG. Article cannot be merged back into Justin Bieber as there was no consensus at a merge proposal to do so. Not seeing the evidence of fancruft in the article. Would like example text from the article that suggests there is a neutrality problem with the article making it fancruft. --LauraHale (talk) 23:38, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Here are some examples of the very much not fantard reasons for keeping this article: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]. Obviously the significance of Bieber's presence on Twitter is far greater than just any random pop culture icon's presence on any random social network. Stop with the pop-hate and try to consider that it may actually be as notable an aspect of the singer as his actual musical productions.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 23:43, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Article is reliably sourced. Passes WP:GNG with substantial coverage in mainstream sources. Refers to something involving millions of people and millions of dollars. "Delete as cruft" falls under WP:IDONTLIKEIT. Hawkeye7 (talk) 23:46, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speedy keep, good articles are inherently article worthy. All you have to do is read the lead to see how this is notable. 117Avenue (talk) 04:29, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep I think poorly of Beiber, and even more poorly of Twitter, but in the cases of Gaga and Beiber only, I think that the race for #1 is significant enough to warrant a keep. For all other celebs, social media activity should be part of the main article. I caution the forces behind the creation of this article on that they have raised significant backlash here, and that they likely won't see nearly as many keep votes if they make ...on Twitter articles for others, or make Justin Beiber on .... articles for other platforms. Sven Manguard Wha? 14:19, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • Comment: For the record, I did not create any ones other than Bieber and Gaga. I think the notability is dubious at best outside these two. (Kutcher may be a special case.) I have zero intention of creating any more because I saw the rough road at WP:DYK to get it through and knew anything else would face continued WP:BATTLEGROUND so wouldn't be worth it.--LauraHale (talk) 21:14, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep, reliably sourced, passes WP:GNG and per Sven. ⇒TAP 15:04, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – I am not going to !vote in this AfD, but the deletion discussion should focus on whether or not this article is appropriately within Wikipedia's scope and policies. The fact that it was listed as a GA or is currently at FAC should be irrelevant; it is certainly possible to write a high-quality article that does not fall under Wikipedia scope or standards. --MuZemike 18:43, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as WP:NOTTRIVIA (specifically item #3 of WP:INDISCRIMINATE). I do appreciate the hard work editors put into this; but: While this is a well written article and would make a fine addition to Bieberpedia (yes, that really does exist), I think the subject matter fails as a stand-alone article from a historical and encyclopedic view. There are possibly parts which could be merged into either the Bieber article or the Twitter article from a Pop culture standpoint, but if we start down this path with Bieber, and Lady GaGa, and, and, and ... (Does Charlie Sheen have one yet?) ... where do we draw the line. WP:V of WP:RS should be a goal of all articles indeed, but they should not be the "be-all-end-all" for inclusion IMHO. Chedzilla (talk) 19:12, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Since closing administrators should be impartial, I suggest that this discussion be closed by an administrator from outside the English-speaking world, who has not heard of Bieber. Interchangeable 20:28, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
He's popular internationally. The only way to get such a truly impartial administrator is if said closing admin was an alien. --MuZemike 20:34, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Per WP:NOTEVERYTHING, "Wikipedia articles are not: A complete exposition of all possible details. Rather, an article is a summary of accepted knowledge regarding its subject". Statements like "Most fans respond favorably when he retweets their messages" and "Bieber utilizes the tag #RandomTwitterHour in order to let his fans know he is making random comments" are not "knowledge". And they are not "accepted knowledge" by recognized experts. Reading an encyclopedia article should not result in filling your head with nothings and banalities. Reading an encyclopedia article should enrich your mind in some way, and not be an utter waste of your time. You should know more after you have read an encyclopedia article. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 20:50, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • The author of the article is a recognized expert on social media and marketing. The sources reference accepted experts. What we should do is get rid of all those worthless articles on motorcycles. Talk about banalities. Delete all of that rubbish per WP:NOTEVERYTHING Hawkeye7 (talk) 21:34, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • Sometimes "cruft" is a code word for "I don't like it". Sometimes cruft is in fact cruft. Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not is a real policy, not just one guy's peeves. It is actually a fact that Wikipedia is not about everything and it is actually a policy to delete indiscriminate collections of trivia. The truth is, some people just don't like the fact that Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not is a real policy and that it's really enforced. So every time they trot out the same knee-jerk defenses: my trivia is just as good as X. Not so, and not policy. (And I say "Welcome aboard!" all editors who will join me in working to delete the hundreds of motorcycling articles that fail WP:N. I can't do it all myself.) --Dennis Bratland (talk) 22:09, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        • It appears that agree on a great deal; but not on interpretation of the value of the Marketing implications of the quoted snippets. It is one thing to be able to advertise to millions of people via a broadcast medium; but it is much more valuable when the recipients are likely to respond with a purchase. Targeting demographics is an obvious form of cost effectiveness in advertising. Fans being pleased to be retweeted builds brand loyalty. Consumer satisfaction is not a matter of opinion; it is worth too much money to be left to that. It has to be carefully surveyed, measured and verified. Social Media has an advantage over other, more traditional, forms of media in that the data comes first; we do not need satisfaction survey, but can immediately take the tweets and analyse them to see if the responses are positive or negative. The message can then be managed in real time. Hawkeye7 (talk) 22:26, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
          • Use of Twitter by celebrities and politicians would be a good place for such analysis of social media. Bieber didn't invent this social trend; he was carried along by it. Fans being pleased at being retweeted is a tautology. The story here is not anything Bieber did, it's Twitter fandom and Twitter public relations. Bieber is engaging in run of the mill behavior for any major celebrity today, and his tweets and how his fans feel about his tweets are banalities that miss the forest for the trees. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 22:42, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. There are about two paragraphs in this article that are not trivia, the definition of which is "insignificant trifles of little importance, especially items of unimportant information". You can't tell me that even the material in "controversies", relative to the goals of this project, is not trivia. What little non-trivial content the article contains should be in other articles (do I have to name them?). Look at the first sentence of each paragraph. There are only about two that suggest non-trivial information is to follow: the first sentence in the article 'As of March 2012, Justin Bieber's Twitter account (@justinbieber) is the second most popular Twitter account' (say it in his article) and 'The size of Bieber and Lady Gaga's follower bases is cited as a reason why marketers should pay attention to Twitter' (say it in Twitter). This article is full of pointillistic sentences that tell the reader next to nothing. (Start of a paragraph: 'In March 2011 the Bieber topic trended alongside the iPad and Charlie Sheen'. Oh! Start of a paragraph: 'Bieber used the popular Twitter and Facebook photo sharing application Instagram in July 2011'. Oh! Start of a paragraph: 'For some people, including Ashton Kutcher, Twitter was their first introduction to Bieber; eventually, Bieber and Kutcher worked together on pranks.' Oh! Start of a paragraph: 'Actor Charlie Sheen attempted to send a direct message to Bieber, but failed and inadvertently revealed his number to all his Twitter followers in December 2011.' Oh!) Wikipedia is not the home for this material. Sources have been used in good faith to mush together paragraphs of random facts that have little substance or thematic connectedness, and the reason for this is that you're trying to get whatever random source material is available to you to "connect" into a larger article (synthesis). But we don't do that; it's the job of other types of writers. Riggr Mortis (talk) 23:02, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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