Talk:Vyachko

Tartu name

This article is wrong place to establish the name. Lowi, if you want to prove something, start from Tartu article, create section "Name" in it and make a detailed account of who, how and when called the place (providing reputable references). Right now the burden of proof is on Lowi, who wants to introduce the change in this article. Also, the etymology of "Tarbatu" would be useful. Doesn't sound Estonian to me. `'mikka (t) 17:35, 26 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the advice. "Tarbatu" sounds as Estonian as a name can be, and there is really no burden of proof to show that this Estonian/Finnic name was in use before 1223 (rather than being imposed by invading Teutonic Knights, as you suggest?). By that time, it already appeared in Latin (Tharbatum) and German texts. As you probably guessed, Dorpat, Derpt, Tartu, etc. are all just cognates thereof, whereas Yuryev is not. Whether or not an article is about Vyachko or someone else, or pertains mostly to history of Russia or some other foreign country, Tartu lies in Estonia, and when we discuss in an English-language text an historical event that took place in Tartu in 1223 then there is no logic in claiming that the first name mentioned should be a cognate to the one used by contemporary East Slavs, but not by Estonians. Yuryev is fine and dandy in first position in Russian-language historical texts. Cheers, --3 Löwi 20:21, 26 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Please don't devise rulers for Wikipedia. We have been through this ground times and times before. You may check the history of Gdansk to see what wild wars used to rage in WP about the nomenclature of the regional centres before. Generally, we use that name in historical contexts under which it was known at the time. For instance, Gdansk is called Danzig in articles referring to the period when it was part of Germany. Likewise, Kaliningrad is called Konigsberg in pre-1945 contexts. And Chernihiv is Chernigov. Therefore, it is only legitimate that the towns ruled by an East Slavic prince (as you call him) should be called by their East Slavic names common at the time. I don't know when "Tarbatu" enters history, it is up for you to provide references to primary sources, yet I know that what you call Tartu has been known in Russian documents as "Yuriev" since 1030. --Ghirla ^-трёп- 06:43, 27 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]