Talk:Euphemism/Archive 1

Regarding the translation of "bear" as "brown guy" – is this correct? I seem to remember (this may not be entirely accurate) that "bear" comes from the Anglo-Saxon beorn, which in turn comes from beo, meaning "bee", due to the bear's love of honey. This explains the linguistic joke in The Hobbit, where the character "Beorn" (who can turn into a bear at will) is also a beekeeper. Can anybody (with more linguistic knowledge than I have gained from reading Tolkien) confirm this? Also, "ladybird" is cited as a euphemism for "ladybug". As far as I know, "ladybird" has always been the British term and "ladybug" the American term. —Wereon

I hope this page is at an appropriate level of (in)offensiveness. If anyone feels it is necessary to explain what the example euphemisms mean, I suppose it must be done. (Those taboos are powerful things,) -- Janet Davis

I'm not sure I agree with "longer words". If the word has the same meaning that the one not being used can you call it an euphemism?

Well, "urinate" is certainly more polite than "piss," isn't it? (Although perhaps in the strictest sense it's not a euphemism.) -- Janet Davis

Apparently there is an opposite of a euphemism, which is most often called a "dysphemism" but sometimes called a "diseuphemism or deeuphemism," and so I think that the anonymous poster is correct. See for instance http://www.linguistlist.org/~ask-ling/archive-most-recent/msg04202.html and http://www.linguistlist.org/~ask-ling/archive-most-recent/msg04212.html --the most discussion I've found on it; most sites merely define it and move on. Merriam-webster has it that the word dates back to 1884.

But the existence of dysphemisms leaves it to someone to determine which words are the most accurate with the least connotation, to zero the balance, so to speak, and that's something I'll not attempt. :-D

Actually there are two rough opposites of euphemism, "dysphemism" and "cacophemism". The latter I think is generally used more often in the sense of something deliberately offensive, while the former can be either offensive or merely humorously deprecating. And yes, there is necessarily a lot of subjectivity involved, because connotations eaily change over time. "Idiot" was once a neutral term, and "moron" a euphemism for it. As is usually the case with evolving languages, negative usages win over neutral ones, so we had to come up with "retarded". Now that too is considered rude, so we have "challenged", and so on. A similar progression occurred with "reek/stink/smell/odor/fragrance"...I'm sure 40 years from now "fragrant" will be the vilest insult.

At any rate, a good question to ask is what is the purpose of an encyclopedia article on "euphemism"? I'm not as anti-dictionary-entry as Larry, but in this case I think it is clearly more appropriate to give an overview of the use of euphemisms, examples, history, etc., which is likely to be much richer than what one could do with a dictionary entry. --LDC

I'm not sure that "gay" is a euphemism. Meanings of words change all the time, and it isn't unusual for one meaning to supplant another over time. The fact that a word usually meant one thing but not means another doesn't make it a euphemism. And even if it were once a euphemism (I'm not convinced it was), a case could be made that it isn't any more. —Eric

"spontaneous energetic disassembly" is most definitely a euphemism. There are no uses of this term on the web other than as a euphemism for "explosion": see this Google search.

Uh, I don't think that "The process of coining euphemisms is called taboo deformation". It seems like this is true only in the limited cases where (1) the word is taboo, i.e. offensive or scary, rather than impolite or unflattering, and (2) the original word or phrase is modified, not replaced. E.g. http://www.vroma.org/~jhaughto/etydefinitions.htm --GGano

Examples include the original Indo-European words for bear (*rktos), wolf (*wlkwos), and deer (originally, hart). In different Indo-European languages, each of these words have difficult etymologies because of taboo deformations--a euphemism was substituted for the original, and the form of the original word no longer occurs in the language. The Germanic word "bear" means "brown guy;" the Slavic root (*medu-ed-) means "honey eater."
- Is there any evidence that these are examples of euphemisms, rather than slang? Likewise, "gay" seems to be more slang -- and "lesbian" doesn't seem to really be either a slang term, nor a euphemism. Qwert

"A euphemism is a word or phrase that is used in place of a more disagreeable or offensive term," and if gay and lesbian is used in place of the disagreeable and/or offensive term "homosexual" then they are euphemisms, correct?-Hyacinth 06:56, 27 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Are they less offensive? I think its certainly debatable, many people use "gay" as a perjorative which would make it far more offensive. I think "gay" is slang, not a euphemism. Qwert

A) Gay is not slang, it is the accepted, often preferred, and used term. B) Words can be many things, and all euphemisms start out as slang or jargon.

However, gay predates homosexual, so it is debatable. JDR has expressed the opinion that "same-sex" is a euphemism for homosexual, so I'll edit to that.

Being slang and being a euphemism are orthogonal terms—neither is bound up in the other. The defining characteristic of slang is that it is informal, whereas the defining characteristic of a euphemism is that it is used in place of a disagreeable term. Certainly "party" is both slang and euphemism for "take drugs", but "pass away" for "die" is a euphemism without being slang, whereas "cool" for "excellent" is slang without being a euphemism.

The situation surrounding terms marginalized groups use to describe themselves, like those who have minority sexual orientations or are from minority ethnic groups, is much too complicated to be a suitable example for the concept of euphemism. Certain epithets have been reclaimed (for example queer or nigger), but whether their usage is a euphemism, a pejorative term, or just a name is dependent on many factors, not the least of which is whether the person using it is a member of the group or not. Similarly, the terms "gay", "homosexual", and "lesbian" all have different status depending on the social group. "gay and lesbian" is preferred by many, but "queer" by some, and "homosexual" is preferred by those who seek to maintain the group's marginal status by using a cold, clinical term. The politics here are too complex for the idea to serve as an instructive example of the concept of euphemism. As such, I have removed it. Nohat 06:16, 2004 Mar 17 (UTC)

What's the SAMPA for euphemism btw? /iu/fa/m^/zm/ -SV(talk) 06:49, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I think that'd be /"juf@mIzm=/ or, in IPA, /ˈjufəmɪzm̩/Nohat 07:07, 2004 Mar 17 (UTC)

I've been trying to find a descriptive term for the ingenuous political speech which expresses dismay or pleasure at something an opponent has done where the speaker is actually could be expected to have the opposite feeling:

"I am troubled that my opponent has lied about his past" meaning "Look what we caught the slime doing--what a great campaign issue."
"I am gratified my opponent finally realizes the importance of gerbil rights" meaning "Damn! He's digging into my core constituency!"

No term (euphemism, doublespeak, spin) seems to quite cover this, and it is tiresomely common. Cecropia 13:55, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Sounds like sarcasm Nohat 14:18, 2004 Mar 26 (UTC)

How about irony? Pollinator 14:28, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Are these the best examples ?

restroom for toilet room - I think this is a euphemism
halitosis for bad breath - But this definately isn't
canola for rapeseed - I Don't think so
ladybird for ladybug - I Don't think so either

Can we come up with some better examples? Julianp 03:57, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Canola is definitely not a euphemism for rapeseed. Canola is oil from a specific variety of rape. It's more like a brand name. I'm going to take it out of the article. CyborgTosser 15:50, 5 May 2004 (UTC)

According to Snopes:

The Canadian seed oil industry rechristened the product "canola oil" (Canadian oil) in 1978 in an attempt to distance the product from negative associations with the word "rape."

If this is correct, then "Canola" is indeed a euphemism. -- Dominus 18:04, 5 May 2004 (UTC)

But the negative connotation of the word "rape" is an unfortunate coincidence and has nothing to do with the meaning of the "rape" as the name of a plant. Is it a euphemism when someone opts to say "stingy" instead of "niggardly"? I don't think so. CyborgTosser 09:39, 6 May 2004 (UTC)

If this hypothetical person intended to say "niggardly", and then intentionally chose "stingy" instead because they wanted to avoid the apparent bad associations of "niggardly", then yes, I would say that "stingy" was being used as a euphemism. The example seems a little obscure because "niggardly" is such an uncommon word. But consider the use of "drumstick" and "second joint" instead of "leg" and "thigh" for chicken parts. These words refer to pieces of meat, not to portions of the human anatomy, but they are euphemisms anyway, because they are used specifically to avoid the unpleasant associations, real or imagined, with the human body. When "hamburger" was renamed "liberty steak" during World War I, that was a euphemism, because it was done to avoid apparent associations with Germany, even though hamburgers never had anything to do with Hamburg or with Germany. -- Dominus 13:47, 6 May 2004 (UTC)

Consider the following sentence from the article:

When a phrase becomes a euphemism, its literal meaning is often pushed aside.

Euphemisms are what they are because of how they are used. In the case of "canola", there is no literal meaning being pushed aside, only a possible misinterpretation. On the other hand, the leg and a thigh of a chicken are the biologically analogous features of the chicken. If that bothers someone, it is not due to a simple misunderstanding about similar sounding words. By the way, "niggardly" is not an obscure example. A search on Google should show you otherwise. CyborgTosser 04:58, 8 May 2004 (UTC)

Taken out because it looks irrelevant in the context: "Because death and dying is one of the most significant yet least understood transitions in human lives," 62.214.61.187 15:27, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC)