Talk:List of best-selling albums

Edit request on 11 July 2012

Maurie or any editors... please advise, i really can not understand why until today, there's no change with Nirvana's Nevermind sources and if we look on the 30 million list, it looks like Nirvana placed UNPROPERLY and not alphabetically.... like this :

Madonna Pink Floyd Nirvana

i think, this is should be...:

Madonna Nirvana Pink Floyd

and the sources for Nirvana is... 26 Million claim... http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/reviews/f8dp

I think, should be change with new sources... 30 million claim... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/cdreviews/8781291/Nirvana-Nevermind-20th-Anniversary-Edition-CD-review.html..

please advise... because if not, it makes the 30 million list looks silly and NOT reliable.... thank you..

39.210.255.146 (talk) 11:00, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

I've just checked, and the 15.085 million in certifications the album has (Gold in Finland was 20,00, Diamond in France was 1,000,000) is less than the 15.6 million albums released in 1991 need for a 30 million claim.

I kept the source and moved the album to the "20–29 million copies" section.--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 07:28, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Given that the certification requirements state:

To be on this list, albums released:

"between 1990-2000 are required to have their lowest available claimed figures supported by 50-70% in certified units",

and the 15.085 in certifications the album has is more than the 13.52 million it needs for a 26 million claim, the edit by QuintusPetillius is acceptable and valid.--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 20:52, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

MICHAEL JACKSON BAD ALBUM

would someone please change MICHAEL JACKSON BAD album from "30-45" million to a definite number no other album has this uncertainty,( except Thriller because it has sold so much)

Apparently there is enough reason to say 45 million as sourced below,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,thank you

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/21/entertainment-us-michaeljackson-bad-idUSBRE84K0Z120120521 Other sources:

http://thecelebritycafe.com/feature/2012/05/michael-jacksons-bad-25-include-new-music-and-new-concert-dvd http://www.noise11.com/news/michael-jackson-25th-anniversary-bad-on-the-way-20120522 http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/entertainment/news/article/206593--michael-jackson-s-bad-to-be-re-released-for-album-s-25th-anniversary http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/5/prweb9523811.htm http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/258982/showbiz/showbizabroad/michael-jackson-is-still-bad-25-years-after-album http://www.musicrooms.net/pop/48666-michael-jackson-s-bad-to-get-25th-anniversary-release.html http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/leisure/2012/05/22/jacko-returns-badder-than-ever/ http://www.entertainment-focus.com/news/michael-jackson-estate-to-release-bad-25 http://www.heart.co.uk/showbiz/showbiz-news/michael-jacksons-bad-gets-re-issue/ http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/music/news/Michael+Jackson-240177.html http://www.mtv.no/news/michael-jackson-s-bad-to-get-25th-anniversary-release-33873/

 Not done: there are sources that say otherwise as well, so I'll leave it how it is. Also please remomber to sign your comments on talk pages. Mdann52 (talk) 16:01, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

If there are sources that say otherwise, might i ask why there are 45 million sales being shown at all? If there is not evidence to prove that his sales are that number then why is it being shown? Wikipedia has been bias for years for Michael Jackson. His sales are the only ones that show ranges and they are all grossly overestimated and you have even stated yourself that there are sources that can prove it. (72.219.42.115 (talk) 04:23, 3 September 2012 (UTC))

Edit request on 4 August 2012

It still seem's confusing dan NOT reliable for Eminem sales album claim sources, two Eminem album, The Marshall Matter LP and the Eminem Show is included on the list with 20 million claim, and by the sources from The Independent and Yahoo Voices...

The sources from The Independent : has been closed and a dead link

this sources is dead.. Byrne, Ciar (August 18, 2005). "The real Slim Shady stands up the fans on his European tour". London: The Independent. Archived from the original on May 14, 2009. http://web.archive.org/web/20090514042111/http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/the-real-slim-shady-stands-up-the-fans-on-his-european-tour-503319.html. Retrieved May 10, 2012.

(If you click the sources.... it would be like this...: http://wayback.archive.org/web/jsp/Interstitial.jsp?seconds=5&date=1242274871000&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%2Farts-entertainment%2Fmusic%2Fnews%2Fthe-real-slim-shady-stands-up-the-fans-on-his-european-tour-503319.html&target=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20090514042111%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%2Farts-entertainment%2Fmusic%2Fnews%2Fthe-real-slim-shady-stands-up-the-fans-on-his-european-tour-503319.html)

and there is a wrong link with the information sources...:

this sources.... Raide, Stephanie (2011-06-08). "Eminem - the Fast Rising Rapper". The Independent. London. http://voices.yahoo.com/eminem-fast-rising-rapper-8607941.html?cat=9. Retrieved 2012-05-10.

is direct to sources from Yahoo Voices.... if you click... it would be like this..

(Raide, Stephanie (2011-06-08). "Eminem - the Fast Rising Rapper". The Independent. London. http://voices.yahoo.com/eminem-fast-rising-rapper-8607941.html?cat=9. Retrieved 2012-05-10)

this sources.... is direct to the Independent sources, not Yahoo link and is DEAD!.... Michael Jackson News: Eminem's Early "Encore"". Yahoo! Music. November 4, 2004. Archived from the original on November 2, 2008. http://web.archive.org/web/20081102041608/http://music.yahoo.com/read/news/12177582. Retrieved May 10, 2012.

(http://wayback.archive.org/web/jsp/Interstitial.jsp?seconds=5&date=1225599368000&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmusic.yahoo.com%2Fread%2Fnews%2F12177582&target=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20081102041608%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fmusic.yahoo.com%2Fread%2Fnews%2F12177582)

So.... I ask to repair the information for Eminem album on this list :

By put The Marshall Matters LP 20m-claim with a correct link and information sources from Yahoo Voices... http://voices.yahoo.com/eminem-fast-rising-rapper-8607941.html?cat=9

and please DELETED The Eminem Show from the list, because the sources from Yahoo only mention The Marshall Matter LP to sold 20m worldwide.... I have try to find the sources for The Eminem Show claim... But it seems there is no reliable sources...

thanks..

182.3.131.188 (talk) 10:53, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

 Not done: None of the sources are dead, and the sourcing stands up for the rest of them. Mdann52 (talk) 15:42, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 8 August 2012

{{edit semi-protected}} Excuse me... is this list still reliable ?

because, i'm confusing to see several albums been added but then deleted, and several albums have been deleted but added again?....

Is this list just a JOKE?.... please advise.... anyone...

Shania Twain's Up have been added again after deleted previously, I'm the one who asked the reason why the album has been deleted, and MAURIE explain clearly.... but now Up! include again... and another Shania Twain's The Woman in me has been deleted ?.... Confusing..

Elthon John's Greatest Hits with 32 million claim... also been deleted.... why?

Latin Pop Gay Singer Ricky Martin now has been included after rejected by several editors... including Maurie...

please advise... if not, then this list should be removed from wikipedia because not reliable for readers.... thank you..

39.212.109.143 (talk) 01:32, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

One editor did all that. I'll have a talk with him and see if we can fix the problems you mentioned. :)--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 02:37, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

My bad. All that "one editor" did was add Ricky Martin. Someone else turned the entry for The Woman in Me to the Up! entry and Bluesatellite (who is a very decent editor) removed Elton John's Greatest Hits.

I reverted all the changes except for Elton John's Greatest Hits. I did not add it back in because no reliable sources could be found and because it turns out that all the websites I found that did say the album sold 32 million seemed to by copy-pasting information from Wikipedia that had no source.

In other words, someone a long time ago may have invented the 32 million (on Wikipedia) and it then spread across the Internet since people always copy-paste Wikipedia.--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 03:50, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

For Ricky Martin I didn't know until the comment you showed me they were multiples sources claming that it sold 22 millions copies so thank you for your correction. Smashmaster5 04:11, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Nirvana - Nevermind album

Nirvana's Nevermind album is currently stated as selling 26 million - using a source from 2008. There is a more up to date source, from 2011 that states it has sold 30 million worldwide. The 2011 source is the official Nirvana website in a news statement from the 22nd of June 2011. See: "Nirvana 20th anniversary edition". Nirvana.com. 2011-06-22. Retrieved 2012-08-08. {{cite web}}: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher= (help) QuintusPetillius (talk) 15:57, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

I am going to make the necessary changes as long as no-one minds.QuintusPetillius (talk) 19:03, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

And why not using a reliable third party sources like this one... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/cdreviews/8781291/Nirvana-Nevermind-20th-Anniversary-Edition-CD-review.html..

it would be properly than using a private website... thanks 182.3.184.154 (talk) 01:32, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

 Done--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 03:06, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

The Who's / Tommy Album ????

I still can not understand why The Who's Tommy album not included in this list, because there is two highly reliable sources The Daily Telegraph and The West Australian which is stated the 20 million claim of Tommy album..

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/entertainment/a/-/entertainment/12741019/roger-daltrey-on-why-he-still-gets-tommy/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/opera/8606544/Roger-Daltrey-Why-I-brought-Tommy-back-to-life.html

Could someone please informed me, is their certification sales doesn't enough to support the 20m-claim ??? or because no one knew who they are?... thanks. 182.5.46.118 (talk) 11:16, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

You are correct. The album cannot be added because its certifications do not reach the minimum limit needed. They don't even cover 25% of the lowest claim of 10 million.--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 00:26, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Where is Bee Gees's Spirit Having Flown ????

How many editor in this list?... why in the past two weeks, there's so many error editing in this list.... and today Bee Gees's Spirit Having Flown has been gone from the list... why....

Please Advise... Thanks. 182.8.223.158 (talk) 01:24, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

I don't know, but I've been vaguely aware of a little back-and-forth editing in that regard over the past day or so. My suggestion is that the editor who wants to include the content makes the case for it here. (Without looking into it in depth, I'd be inclined to support the inclusion. It was sourced, and here's another source.) Rivertorch (talk) 09:19, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

I deleted it because it does not have nearly enough certifications to support the 30 million claim. According to the certification requirements:

To be on this list, albums released:

between 1975-1990 are required to have their lowest available claimed figures supported by 25-50% in certified units. (That is 1.66% for each additional year after 1975)

This means that to be included in the list, Spirits Having Flown needs to have its lowest claimed figure supported by 31.66% in certifications.

Since the 1.925 million it has in certifications is not nearly enough for a 30 million claim, I looked for lower ones and found a 1997 Billboard claim for 20 million.

Even with those lower sales, the album still needed 6.33 million in certifications to be included. I researched a little more and found a 1982 claim for US sales of 4 million.

Incredibly, even after adding up all available actual sales (which allowed Breakfast in America to be added), the album still only had 5.9 million in available sales, relatively far from the needed 6.33 million.

The way I see it, if we find hard proof (reputable sources) for the 6 million in the US claim here, we can add the album back in with the 20 million claim.

Finally, I'm against using your other source. Considering what I've just said, it's astronomical and not unlike the 110 million for Thriller. (Actually worse, since 38% of the Thriller highest claim is supported by its certifications, as opposed to a max of 22% for the Spirits Having Flown highest claim when all available sales are used)--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 10:31, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Sales figures are right?

Hello, I am of the Portuguese wikipedia, and I'm trying to update the information in the Portuguese wiki article. However, I must ensure that updates to the English article are right, I'll update on that basis. I realized that the albums Nevermind and Metallica rose to 30 million, before it was 26 million and 28 million respectively. The same information is true? Because I think the number of sales of albums listed in this article are rising very fast. Thank you in advance for the clarification.

PS.: Sorry for any grammatical errors, my English is not 100% fluent.

Matheus93tfm (talk) 02:35, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

I suggest you update the sales for Metallica first. Both albums are from 1991 but Metallica has 18.57 million in certifications compared to the 15.085 million in certifications that Nevermind has.

In my opinion, updating sales for Metallica is more justifiable than updating sales for Nevermind.--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 07:46, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm the one who asking to change the sales figure and include of Whitney Houston, Nirvana, Madonna, Metallica, Norah Jones, TLC, AC/DC, Eminem, etc.... because I like this list... it is so prestigious... that's why i hope the editor not making this list just a joke... thanks... 180.243.86.220 (talk) 12:38, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Usher's Confessions

Yesterday... I was trying to see the sources of Usher's Confessions sales figure... but it was a dead link, i dont know is this happen only in my internet connection or not... but personnally, if i comparing the sources of usher with the others, it's look not nice and highly regarded..

I asked to change the sources of usher's confessions with the sources from BET... http://www.bet.com/video/music/u/usher/confessions-part-ii.html

i THINK, it will be look nice and properly... need your consider... thanks.. 182.0.31.148 (talk) 08:22, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

About The Backstreet Boys

Millennium has sold 40 million worldwide ,, anyway if you look now to this source [1] you will see that very old source and sold 30 million at just 8 months < 12 years ago but in this sources [2] [3] and another sources if you search you will see the true . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.45.42.70 (talk) 07:10, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Certified sales column

--Excerpt from Archive 7--

Estimated and Certified are two different parallel lines though some try to link the two.Their conclusion will almost ways be different. But if we're joining them, then go to all of MJ's pages and put your original research as his worldwide estimated album sales. Then go to every artist page of the last 65 YEARS, (Elvis,Beatles,James Brown, Rolling Stones, U2) scroll down to all the albums that they have put out, and just disregard the estimated sales of their albums and put the certifications as their worldwide estimated album sales. A pointless effort. An accepted reliable source like Yahoo Reuters is still acceptable regardless of what some may see as inflated. Most albums certification DO NOT, (parrot mode) DO NOT add up to their estimated amount but it is what it is as Wikipedia allows for reliable sources to be the backbone of all articles of their web pages despite what some may believe as exaggerated, or recycled misinformation. Reuters is reliable until a later article of the same page can prove to it to be otherwise. And if you can, can you stop attacking Thriller every chance you get? This is an online encyclopedic webpage and not a blog spot. CaThe Almighty King (talk) 07:51, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

I believe we need to work with ranges in this list. Less than a week ago, there was one source saying that "Bad" sold 45 million copies. Before the moment that this source was published, all the sources were talking about 30 million copies. We should be very careful to include (almost without thinking) such an extremely inflative figure, only because one source introduced a false figure. Just as for Thriller, I think it's better to work with a range (30-45 million).Christo jones (talk) 12:40, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

The problem with including ranges is that before long many fans will see it as an outlet to post more and more inflated sales figures.

On a related topic, I agree with The Almighty King that adding a certified sales column would be beneficial to the article. I have personally already looked for gold and platinum awards and inserted certification tables for albums like Grease, Can't Slow Down and Private Dancer.--Mauri96 (talk) 16:15, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Sounds good to me Christo jones. If anybody can make this page the same level as list of best selling music artist its definitely you Mauri96 :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Almighty King (talk • contribs) 02:34, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, but I must admit, I'm not nearly as good (or experienced) an editor as Harout72, the user responsible for making the list of best-selling artists as good as it is today.

In any case, adding a certified sales column for every single album (for that is what I plan to do) will take quite a while, especially considering I'm not going to let Wikipedia interfere with my schoolwork anymore. I am in the last year of the IB Diploma, after all.--Mauri96 (talk) 21:34, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

If anyone wants to get started in my absence, here is a list of some albums that I confirm have certifications--Mauri96 (talk) 21:38, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

I've gotten started on the certifications column. I've done The Immaculate Collection as a test and this is what it's going to look like. What I essentially did was go through the history of the list of best-selling music artists and copy the code word-for-word. Because of this, we've lost the centering and color, which, if anyone knows how to insert back in, can be recovered.--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 22:31, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

--Excerpt end--

I finally finished the certifications for the "Over 40 million" section and also added color to the new detailed table. My work can be found here.--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 20:42, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Certified sales column response

Well, it is look so reliable to put the certification sales on the list, but why only the range from 40 million-up.... how about the rest? why not make the certification column for the lower claim sales?

And... once again, how many editor in this list... in the previous weeks, i've seen Amy Whinehouse's Back to Black was included with 20m-claim from The Washington Times (very reliable sources)... why now deleted?

and Genesis...once included with 20m-claim from nowhere sources... now deleted?

and now... The Beatles's Abbey Road included with 30m-claim... so please, tell me.... when that album will be deleted ?

This list look so reliable two years ago... but now, there's so many deleted and add from many editors.... H3LL.... 182.8.247.114 (talk) 05:57, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

that new column looks terrible and not organized,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,--65.8.190.146 (talk) 09:48, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

The column with the certifications looks fine and is comparable with the way of working in the list of best-selling music artists. It took surely already a lot of time to find all the certifications for the range of albums with sales above 40 million. For the other albums the cerfications will also be added. The certifications column is a good way to create a more reliable list. I believe that the list is now more reliable than two years ago...Christo jones (talk) 11:26, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

Amy Winehouse was deleted because beside the 8 million copies it sold (not shipped) in Europe, it only has 0.725 million in certifications and 2.4 million copies in the US for a total of 10.7 million in certifications (11.1 million when US actual sales are counted).

I myself added and removed Genesis' We Can't Dance (and even gave it a certification table) to show that the "lowest available claim" part of the certification requirement system was too flexible. (At that moment the album had too few certifications for 20 million but enough for 15 million).

Now, We Can't Dance doesn't have have enough certifications for a 20 million claim and will not be added back in until it has 10.3 million in certifications (51.5% of 20) instead of the 9.325 million it has now.

Before, it was possible to add an inflated (Thriller, Bad) or unrealistic (Spirits Having Flown) sales claim and have it stay on the list for long periods of time without people questioning it.

While the list might be more unstable now, it's because more editors are now making sure the list is kept reliable. The people who re-added No Angel, Back to Black and gave us the 45 million claim for Bad are likely uninformed editors who don't think certifications are important or accept whatever the prestigious (but not absolutely reliable) media says.

Regarding the organization of the certifications, I'll fix any discrepancies in their order in a minute.--Mαuri^’96 “...over the Borderline” 23:49, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

prince

Prince's Purple Rain album has sold 26 million copies http://www.startribune.com/entertainment/blogs/153118185.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.221.177.44 (talk) 16:21, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 30 August 2012

Abbey road has sold over 43 million now.

Boratandjesus (talk) 20:54, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. RudolfRed (talk) 03:02, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Millenium of Backstreet boys Sold 40 Million.

the album reached 30 million in February 2000 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/643602.stm

Today the album has sold more than 40 million sources: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/entertainment/music/music-news/taking-it-back-961300

http://www.allmusic.com/artist/backstreet-boys-mn0000765595

http://www.billboard.com/artist/backstreet-boys/bio/171765#/artist/backstreet-boys/bio/171765

http://www.vh1.com/artists/az/backstreet_boys/artist.jhtml # biographyEnd

http://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/backstreet-boys/id217039 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ramon.rlm (talk • contribs) 18:24, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

2nd best selling

If AC/DC's Back to Black and Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon have both sold an estimated 50 million copies but AC/DC's Back to Black has more certified units sold, shouldn't their album be placed above Pink Floyd's? (72.219.42.115 (talk) 04:27, 3 September 2012 (UTC))

No, the list is organized by year. DSOTM is an older album than Back In Black. DSOTM is also more undercertified than Back In Black (especially in the US).Christo jones (talk) 20:34, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Organized by year? Then hy is The Immaculate Collection above Pink Floyd's The Wall and below Pink Floyd is Metallica? Also, Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band is below Dangerous and Falling Into is above Music Box. There are many of these mistakes if thats the case (72.219.42.115 (talk) 21:17, 5 September 2012 (UTC))

Meat Loaf

There's no way Bat Out of Hell can have sold 43 millions. 3 proofs :

Proof 1 : all albums around 40 million in this list like Thriller, Titanic, The Bodyguard, Dark Side of the Moon are in the top 10 of all time in several countries including the biggest markets. Bat Out Of Hell isn't even in the top 50 in those countries except USA, UK (we don't have any source for that) and Australia which is a small market.

Proof 2 : everybody knows at least one song from every album on the list because radios played them during decades (which explains the sales) or because advertisings used them cause their creators knew albums had sold a lot and were popular. Bat Out Of Hell songs are all completely unknown.

Proof 3 : when you add known figures for Bat Out Of Hell you don't get close to 43 millions at all. Sales in USA should be a standard among others. Bat Out Of Hell sales in USA are not as big as others albums in the list.

My opinion is Bat Out Of Hell figures are a fake rumor and it has sold a maximum of 17 millions copies. I mean on its wikipedia page, it is said it has sold 2 millions in Canada. Then you go to the page Best selling albums in Canada and you (Meat) laugh a lot (sorry i had ot make that joke). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.33.122.185 (talk) 12:21, 4 September 2012 (UTC)