Talk:Zurich German

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An effect contrary to the enrichment of the dialect by foreign influences comes from the school system, which teaches standard German not as a new language, but merely as a different form of pronunciation and with a modified vocabulary, this leads to a confusion of the two languages. In combination with predominantly standard German television, this leads to a change in Swiss German: the Zurich German word for "butter", "Anke", has been almost completely replaced by the German word "Butter". It is often observed that small children talk standard German when playing alone, imitating the world of television. Another example is the apparition of new time-forms (Swiss German knows only present tense, which is also used for the future, and a composite past tense).

it seems POV to describe Turkish, Italian and Slavic influences as "enrichment", but influences of Standard German as "contrary to enrichment". Also, no evidence is given that anke has indeed been "almost completely replaced", this seem like OR, or a subjective impression. Nor is evidence cited for the "apparition of new time forms". To the best of my knowledge, Z German has as little of a future or imperfect tense as always. dab (ᛏ) 11:56, 15 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is not subjective. If I had more time, I could mention a lot of references! Of course, there is an influence from every migrant language (there are more than 100 spoken in Zurich), but only one is everywhere: Newspaper, telly, radio, school, when you speak with foreigners, ..... This is a significativ and strong influence. Not only as mentioned in vocabulary, but also in syntax. I think, this section is not a POV. --Eruedin 13:52, 4 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"It is often observed that small children talk standard German when playing alone, imitating the world of television."

This is deliberate. I, growing up in Linz (Austria), did the same with my friends when we played Ghostbusters or Ninja Turtles, because Ghostbusters and Ninja Turtles are on TV (and in comics, in other words, written) and therefore speak Standard German. That's a part of their identity. You can't simply translate them. Additionally, it would be perceived as ridiculous to attempt to translate flowery rhetoric like "your minutes are counted, villain!!!" into the dialect.

Here is a similar example from Algeria. David Marjanović 15:24, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

comes from the school system - I doubt that the (anonymous) author of this paragraph knows what she/he is writing about. The Swiss school (in German speaking part) teach German as a new language. But not as a foreign one. The Zurich schools should, starting in Kindergarten, do all teaching in "high German", as well as the teacher speak it. One reason is to have a language that immigrant children will be able to learn. The other to give the Swiss children more confidence in high German. Anke - Butter - As a person of Zurich origin living here I can testify that the word Anke is getting lost. I still use it, but I will get a non understanding glance in a bakery when I ask for a Ankebräzeli. Btw: the Swiss now speak of "der Butter". In Germany it is "die Butter". Teeschmid (talk) 12:30, 6 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The request to rename this article to Zurich German has been carried out.

If the page title has consensus, be sure to close this discussion using {{subst:RM top|'''page moved'''.}} and {{subst:RM bottom}} and remove the {{Requested move/dated|…}} tag, or replace it with the {{subst:Requested move/end|…}} tag.

Zürich German → Zurich German – According to both English sources listed at the bottom of the article, the correct name of the dialect is "Zurich German" in English. I can add a third source if necessary: Züritüütsch isch aifach schön / Zurich German is simply beautiful, Fuchs and Schreier, 2004. mgeo talk 16:18, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

Support, per Van Riemsdijk's Clitics in the Languages of Europe (1999), Formal Issues in Lexical-Functional Grammar (1994), Hartmann's Comparative Studies in Germanic Syntax: From Afrikaans to Zurich German (2006), and Salzmann's "Silent resumptives in Zurich German possessor relativization". Kauffner (talk) 12:14, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support per the sources listed by mgeo and Kauffner. Kaldari (talk) 03:40, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]