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September 14

please how can i compile a kernel which can be used in the cdrom:/isolinux

Question moved to the computing reference desk. --ColinFine (talk) 11:14, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Special type of ladder

Hi there,

not too many people reading here, so I'd like to put my question here, hoping to find more readers ... --Schwäbin (talk) 11:55, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Variously called a hook ladder, a pompier ladder (from the french for firefighter) or scaling ladder, although scaling can be one or two beam, when used in heraldry they are usually called scaling. meltBanana 12:10, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

"Chicken ladder" seems to be related [1][2][3]. Bus stop (talk) 12:27, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your hints. --Schwäbin (talk) 08:02, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

request to delete contributions

I want to delete all the images I have contributed to this site. Since none of them are verifiable, that is you need to trust that I was accurate and you can't trust one persons opinion or report. So I wish to delete them completely and not have them used on this site. I will NEVER contribute to this site again.

Thank you,

Dan Breyfogle — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dtbrey (talk • contribs) 15:55, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

This page is for requesting links and references to help with research. We cannot help you here. If you click on an image you have created and it says "This is a file from the Wikimedia Commons. Information from its description page there is shown below" then click on description page there. Click on the link at the top of that page that says discussion. Edit the discussion page to add {{delete}} and save it. The process will not be complete at that point, follow the instructions given. If you have future questions please direct them here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Help_desk as we cannot help you further at this desk. Please also consider asking an editor at the Help Desk to advise you on how you can recreate your deleted article and sufficiently source it so that it will not be deleted again. μηδείς (talk) 16:24, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

That information is not correct in this particular case, but the advice to ask at the Help desk is the correct advice -- Dan, please do that. Looie496 (talk) 17:36, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

I am sorry, I gave instruction for deletion form wikimedia commons, since another editor earlier said your files were hosted there. Instead click on the lins below, and cut and paste the bracketed information onto those pages:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gardner2006.jpg {{subst:db-reason-notice|File talk:Gardner2006.jpg|header=1|author requests deletion of unused file}}

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gardner2006T.jpg {{subst:db-reason-notice|File talk:Gardner2006T.jpg|header=1|author requests deletion of unused file}}

Again, before you do this, you may want to ask at the help desk how to successfully recreate your article. μηδείς (talk) 17:50, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Well, looking over your contribs, you've released File:Gardner2006.jpg into the public domain (ditto your other image upload). As such, you technically no longer have any rights regarding the image. That said, deletion of an unused image shouldn't be particularly controversial -- but I figure it's worth warning you to be careful about what rights you relinquish in the future. — Lomn 18:33, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Edit: Similarly, your Commons uploads appear to be under a Creative Commons license, which is is not revokable. Again, deletion of unused files is generally non-controversial, but you should be prepared for the possibility that not all of the files will be deleted. — Lomn 18:43, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Dear Mr. Breyfogle, if you follow my instructions, and the above naysayers do not act with good reason to oppose you, your files will be deleted as you request. If you have any trouble, please feel free to leave a note on my talk page. I have successfully had my own material deleted in the past. μηδείς (talk) 01:34, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Your uploads are in scope, so they won't qualify for deletion at Commons; please note that attempts to get images deleted as a form of dissociating yourself from this site won't be accepted. Nyttend (talk) 06:09, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Apparently one image is at wikipedia and the other at wikimedia. Spite may not be a relevant reason for deletion, but inverifiability is. Breyfogle can simply argue the image has no use and is unable to be verified. He should read WP:NOTIMAGE while people who have not helped him as a newbie could benefit from WP:BITE μηδείς (talk) 20:40, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Military service: Romney and Obama's families

I read that neither Mitt Romney nor Barack Obama saw fit to serve in the US military, but I got to wondering how many ancestors of either are known to have served in any army on any side in any historic conflict. Edison (talk) 18:24, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

It completely baffles me the concern that US voters have that their politicians did military service. Astronaut (talk) 18:41, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

So many assumptions in such a small font. Shadowjams (talk) 20:43, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

But this is a very interesting sub-question. The answer to Astronaut is that in the US there was both compulsory military service and numerous chances to duck out of it. In the UK by contrast, the last PM to have served in the military was James Callaghan. It seems that all French presidents of the 20th and 21st centuries served. Hollande was exempted for myopia but appealed and is still an officer reservist. Chirac served in Algeria. Mitterrand was called up to the Maginot line, then deported to a prison camp in Germany, then in the Resistance. Quite different national cultures. Itsmejudith (talk) 21:22, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

The US President is the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces, so one theory is that he might have more of a clue about the military if he actually served in it. An additional theory is that if he's been in combat himself, he might be a little more prudent about sending our children overseas to die for us. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:41, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

And is there any empirical support for the latter? —Tamfang (talk) 20:15, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

You mean "Does it really work that way?" I wouldn't bet the family jewels on it. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:13, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Anyway, Barack Obama Sr.'s father Onyango had traveled widely, enlisting in the British colonial forces. After the attack on Pearl Harbor, Ann Dunham's father joined the United States Army, serving in the European Theatre of World War II with the 1830th Ordnance Supply and Maintenance Company, Aviation; and her mother worked at a Boeing plant in Wichita. Astronaut (talk) 18:48, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

There seems to be a lot more information (more than I care to read) about Mitt Romney's family, probably due to the LDS' interest in geneology. Romney family and Pratt family have links to all the details including "William Pratt (1609–1678) was an early colonial settler, a lieutenant in the Pequot War..." and "Anson Pratt (1801-1849)... fought at the Battle of Nauvoo. Astronaut (talk) 19:05, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

I wonder what the OP means by neither of them "saw fit" to serve. That expression is pretty pejorative, usually used in a strong criticism of someone's alleged failure to act in some expected way. Is there some unspoken moral requirement or community expectation that people voluntary serve in the military in the US? -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 21:14, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

The OP said "saw fit" because service was a choice available to each of the two individuals, and they chose to do other things. I don't know how you would prefer it to be phrased. Make a good suggestion and I might rephrase the question. Edison (talk) 00:37, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

They had the choice to do many things. They could have become train drivers, or librarians. It would be a really dumb thing to say "...neither Mitt Romney nor Barack Obama saw fit to become farmers". The question is obviously built around a belief by the OP that there is something special about military service, and that it's undesirable that neither took part. THAT IS the real guts of this question. Why are Americans so obsessed with military service and presidential candidates? HiLo48 (talk) 01:30, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Not all people, but it's a plus for a Presidential candidate. And having dodged the draft, particularly by getting rich relatives to pull some strings, is highly unpopular with voters. Former President Bush may have avoided combat in that way. See George W. Bush military service controversy. StuRat (talk) 21:39, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

I found this survey. As it backed up my personal opinion, I stopped searching there -true, but irrelevant.

A substantial majority of Americans say serving in the military is a sign of patriotism.

The military is one of the most positively viewed institutions in the country. In Gallup's June 2011 survey, 78 percent had a great deal or quite a lot of confidence in the military. It was the highest ranked institution in the poll.

Although historical data on college students' patriotism are not available, a near majority of them (48 percent) in a poll taken soon after 9/11 described themselves as very patriotic and another 44 percent as somewhat patriotic. In October 2004, those responses were 39 and 49 percent, respectively.

Please note: I am merely saying that I would agree that this is how Americans generally feel. I am not an American. Bielle (talk) 21:45, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks StuRat and Bielle. I was of course aware of the Bush allegations (not that it dented his being elected twice). But now that the draft is a thing of history, I'm surprised people would be viewing presidents or candidates through the prism of whether they voluntarily served or not. I mean, sure it'd be a plus to be able to point to having volunteered for military service. But is the absence of a plus automatically interpreted as a minus? That sort of makes a mockery of the abolition of the draft and the voluntary nature of military service these days. I guess when it comes to politics, anything's possible. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 22:50, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

It's only recently that viable presidential candidates were born late enough to have been post-Vietnam (in other words, post draft), so the issues of avoiding service are very much still in play. Shadowjams (talk) 23:31, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

A comment purely from narrow personal experience... I have got to know a few Americans from West Virginia. They've told me that joining the military is possibly more popular there than elsewhere in the US, not for patriotic reasons, but because it's one good source of a decent job and income in an area that's been economically depressed for some time. Presidential candidates generally don't seem to come from economically depressed areas. HiLo48 (talk) 22:55, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Also note that it's possible to have too much military experience. A presidential candidate who has never done anything outside the military might be considered insufficiently qualified to be President, as ordering Congress to do what you want tends not to go over very well. :-) StuRat (talk) 23:43, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

I don't know about that. It didn't seem to hurt career soldier Dwight D. Eisenhower any. Both parties wanted him to run under their banner. Ulysses S. Grant and Zachary Taylor got in on their military credentials. Also, Colin Powell and Douglas MacArthur got some support to run. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:34, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Yes, after winning a major war, generals are a bit more popular than is typical. The rest of the time, they don't do as well. Also note that Eisenhower did do some things outside the military to broaden his experience, prior to his presidential run: Dwight_D._Eisenhower#President_at_Columbia_University_and_NATO_Supreme_Commander. StuRat (talk) 18:51, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

There was a former career soldier in de facto control of the White House on 30 March 1981 when the president was unavoidably detained. Haig ran for the Republican nomination for president in 1988 but went nowhere fast. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 11:19, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Another sign of the American interest in this is the existance of List of Presidents of the United States by military service and List of United States Presidents by military rank. A lot of generals there. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:07, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

THIS IS YET ANOTHER REFERENCELESS INVITATION TO DEBATE THAT NEEDS HATTING OR REFERENCE TO ANI. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANYTHING NON-PARTISAN AND NON-POLITICAL TO ADD? IF NOT, CAN WE PLEASE HAT THIS? μηδείς (talk) 01:30, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

There have been plenty of references so far. What are you complaining about now ? And all caps is considered rude here. StuRat (talk) 01:33, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

"how many ancestors of either are known to have served in any army on any side in any historic conflict". Come again? Even if some people are taking that as an invitation to debate, that's still not a reason to yell at the whole room and ask for the thread to be hatted. Someguy1221 (talk) 01:34, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Links to irrelevant articles are not references, and in no case do they justify invitations to debate, which are forbidden. Your opinion that there are no rules is quite well known, there is no need to repeat it. μηδείς (talk) 01:37, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Let's see some relevant refs, someguy, or this goes to ANI as another a good reason to shut down the ref desks as a pestilence. (I do remembert someone else saying we should remind each other constantly to provide valid refs. μηδείς (talk) 01:39, 15 September 2012 (UTC))

I do not see why the original question should have set you off to the extent of your all caps vehemence.You get mad for no apparent reason and want to hat discussions and drag the matter to ANI, or to eliminate the Ref Desk entirely. You appear to be demanding references in the question itself, or to be claiming that no reliable sources could exist to answer the question. Which is it? It is a request for factual referenced information that might exist in a reliable source but is not readily found in Wikipedia. To make it less broad, lets stick to the years since 1776, to avoid someone claiming ancient warrior kings such as Charlemagne to be ancestors of either or both who fought in wars. For the US at least, pretty good records of military service back to 1776 have long been linked to genealogies.So far Obama's two grandfathers were in the military, with one on WW2 and the other vaguely in some British colonial force, not specifying whether in wartime or peacetime. A Pratt ancestor of Romney fought in the "Battle of Nauvoo," in 1846 in which Mormons were fighting non-Mormons in Illinois (We do not actually have an article on this "battle.") By the US Civil War, the Pratt and Romney ancestors seem to have been in Utah. Did those Utah residents stay out of that war, in general? There might be 6 or more generations of ancestors back to 1800, and only 3 persons have been identified above who might have fought for their country or tribe or faction. The links to the articles on the Romney and Pratt families are useful. Romney's father George was of the right age to have fought in WW2, but for some reason was a spokesman for car companies during the war rather than a fighter, per the article. George's father was the right age for the Spanish-American war, but had fled with his wives and kin to Mexico some years before. A Pratt had fought for a European power, but deserted the US Army while fighting the Mormons to join the Mormons.There seems to be less coverage, for fewer generation, of the Obama ancestors in Wikipedia than the Romney ancestors. The article on the Obama family could use more generations like the other articles mentioned. News stories have discussed Obama's ancestors back to the 1600's in America, so references must exist somewhere. Comments about Eisenhower or the Bushes seem off-topic. Edison (talk) 00:37, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Now, let's all debate Medeis' comment... HiLo48 (talk) 01:37, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Although British voters have always eschewed politicians of high military rank - the exception was the Duke of Wellington who was about the least popular prime minister ever - military service is almost compulsory for male members of the Royal Family. So not so great a cultural difference as some posters are suggesting. Alansplodge (talk) 22:29, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm finding it difficult to recall when military service (or not) was a significant part of the persona of a major Australian political figure. We don't seem to think it matters either way very much. Only one Prime Minister comes to mind, John Gorton, who was PM in 1968 to 1971. His air force career seemed to be mentioned from time to time. HiLo48 (talk) 22:43, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Whitlam (1972-75) served in the RAAF, like Gorton (1968-71). When Gorton became PM, he wasn't exactly a non-entity but he was a relatively little known Senator, and the Australian populace had to be quickly brought up to speed about this bloke. We heard about his RAAF service and how he survived being shot down three times, which explained his facial scarring. But other than that, his RAAF service counted for nothing politically. It was never significant in Whitlam's public career either. See List of Australian Prime Ministers by military service for some others. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 23:40, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Thomas Jefferson ladder?

What is the name of this type of ladder where the steps don't go all the way across? The example that I've seen (and used) had three uprights and the rungs went from left to center, right to center, left to center, and so on. I've heard it called a Thomas Jefferson ladder but neither of our articles on ladders or Thomas Jefferson mention it. I'd like to know if Jefferson actually had a hand in inventing it or if his name just got attached to it somehow. And if there is a proper (however you want to define that) term for the type of ladder. Thanks, Dismas|^(talk) 19:03, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

The page you linked, calls it "alternating tread stairs". Sounds like a reasonable name to me. Astronaut (talk) 19:07, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Do you mean ladder or stairs? The ladder looks ordinary to me. Shadowjams (talk) 20:42, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

This is a tough one. One of the leading manufacturers calls them "alternating tread stairs" as well [4]. Jefferson is widely believed to have invented/promoted them, but you already knew that :)

This thread discusses how to build them [5], and someone there claims that the brochure at Monticello credits Jefferson as inventing them (the same thread also mentions Ben Franklin as a possible inventor) From Monticello.org, "According to architectural historians, who removed a modern staircase in 1979, the space was reached either by a ladder or a steep ladder-like stair." [6]. What might be confusing the issue is that Jefferson did invent and popularize a collapsible ladder [7], so the two may have been conflated along the way... SemanticMantis (talk) 21:13, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Alternating-tread stairs are are quite old: I've encountered them at Lindisfarne Castle (pre-Lutyens) and at Glastonbury Abbey, both in stone blocks. While it's the sort of thing that would have appealed to Jefferson, the concept was not invented by him. Acroterion (talk) 22:43, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

September 15

Alumni of Allahabad University

Pt.Motilal (Nehru) was a student of Muir Central College of Allahabad before 1884. Allahabad University came into existence in 1887. Before 1887, Muir Central College was affiliated to Calcutta University. Thus as a student, he was not an alumnus of Allahabad University. Was this status conferred on him subsequently as an honour? If so, when?117.199.144.15 (talk) 06:32, 15 September 2012 (UTC) Ram Narain Lohkar

It looks like Allahabad University Alumni Association has chosen to honour Motilal Nehru as an alumnus[8] on the grounds that he studied at (but did not graduate from) Muir Central College, which developed into the university and where the buildings in which he studied are still standing. Presumably the University of Calcutta Alumni Association could do the same thing, if they chose to, on the grounds that Muir Central College was affiliated to the U of C before MCC became Allahabad University, although we don't have information on the nature of that affiliation (was the university the degree-awarding body for MCC at that time, for example, or did it award its own qualifications?) Neither claim is 100% accurate, and both could be said to be partially correct. In either case, the statement that he has been acknowledged in a publication by the Alumni Association - an old scholars' club - is fairly trivial in the context of the rest of the article. - Karenjc 21:06, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

"Limited" form of Female Genital Mutilation

Female genital mutilation is a horrific practice, I think most would agree. My personal opinion is that men who advocate removing women's clitorises should have their penises cut off.

My question is about the specific (and relatively rare) form of FGM which involves cutting off just the clitoral hood (not doing anything to the clitoris itself). Anatomically, this would seem the closest version to the "male" circumcision equivalent. Is this version any more cruel or painful (or detrimental to sexual feeling and function) than male circumcision?

I'm well aware that there are those who claim that male circumcision, too, negatively affects sexual feeling. I'm just trying to get a comparison to this specific female version.

(Note: I am not an advocate of FGM in any form). 58.111.230.117 (talk) 14:33, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

This is not a general discussion forum. Either address the question, or be silent. Looie496 (talk) 17:17, 15 September 2012 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Note that in the most severe form, the vagina is actually sewn shut, and grows together, so that any sex is likely to be painful and cause injury. Corrective surgery may be required to open it up again, either for menstruation or for sex (which means after marriage, in those places). StuRat (talk) 15:59, 15 September 2012 (UTC) If that's not typical, how is it relevant?  Card Zero  (talk) 16:18, 15 September 2012 (UTC) What should women who advocate or perpetuate the practice have cut off? For example, Ayaan Hirsi Ali recounts in her Infidel how it was her father who was against her being FGMmed and her granma who had it done to her. Asmrulz (talk) 17:09, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Unless you have read it already: the article Clitoral hood reduction has some information on that. The article seems to deal mainly with the "cosmetic" aspects of CHR and not with any cultural practices. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 20:55, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

urban history research question: Croton Aqueduct and High Bridge

I read this article in the NYT, and it mentioned the High Bridge over the Harlem River between Manhattan and The Bronx. That led me to our article on the Croton Aqueduct.

Our articles on the aqueduct and the bridge, however, left me with two questions:

1. When was the Croton Aqueduct taken out of service?
2. After that, what was the point of maintaining the High Bridge?

A huge reconstruction was done on the bridge in 1928 (replacing most of the masonry arches with a much larger steel one). Was the bridge still in use as an aqueduct then?

A $20 million project is currently underway to restore the bridge for pedestrian use by 2013. Is pedestrian access the only point of the project?

(My point in asking is partly curiosity, and partly to see our articles improved, so if you like, feel free to spend time improving the articles instead of answering here.) —Steve Summit (talk) 16:22, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Doesn't the second paragraph of High Bridge (New York City)#Aqueduct basically answer your two numbered questions, as well as the "Was the bridge still in use as an aqueduct then?" one? Deor (talk) 01:22, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

How can I write rho so it doesn't look like p?

--168.7.229.0 (talk) 18:09, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Start at the bottom and draw the p upwards, with a slight slant to the right. --TammyMoet (talk) 18:12, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Rho looks like this: ρ. Looie496 (talk) 18:17, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Can't help you with the capital, but the article rho itself shows a loopier character that looks like a cursive lowercase 'e' with the tail below the line as the second lowercase variant. When I studied Greek in University we were taught to draw the stem at a 45 degree angle ascending to the upper right, so it looked much more slanted and less peeish than the standard font here, more like this ρ italic form (or, much better, see here). Also, a printed 'p' is drawn stem first from the upper left down, leaving a little nub at the top, while a rho is drawn in one upward then clockwise motion, so it lacks the nub of the 'p' which is drawn in two separate strokes. μηδείς (talk) 18:31, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

(ec) In some fonts, that certainly could be confused with a lowercase p. Unfortunately, uppercase rho (Ρ) looks exactly like uppercase P. Therefore, I suggest using a different slant, font, size, bolding, color, or highlighting to distinguish all your Greek letters from English ones: ρ, ρ, ρ, ρ, ρ, ρ, ρ, etc. StuRat (talk) 18:40, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Here's the loopier ϱ I mentioned from the article. μηδείς (talk) 20:40, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Mail 'Trash'

Having just installed Apple's Lion and Mountain Lion I have 'lost' the Trash box on my Mail page. Any ideas as to how restore it please?--85.211.199.83 (talk) 18:20, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

This would probably get better responses at the Computing Desk. Dismas|^(talk) 18:43, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

On mail version of Mail, which is a little older, I can make the Trash appear by going to the Mailbox menu, selecting Go To, and then selecting Trash. If this isn't exactly in your version, look for something similar. RudolfRed (talk) 04:01, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Done that, many thanks.--85.211.199.83 (talk) 06:13, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

September 16

30 Gallon Fish tank, how many fish?

Okay so I started setting up a 30-gallon fish tank 3 weeks ago and so far have the following fish

3 Guppies 1 Molly 1 Red-finned shark 1 Green spotted puffer

I want to get another guppy and possibly a loach and a figure-8 puffer but I'm not sure approximately how many fish is healthy for the tank. Does anyone know how many fish I could possibly have in my tank? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pennypuppy475 (talk • contribs) 02:36, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

I would think it would vary by the types of fish. Have you spoken to your pet supply store? And if it does get too crowded, put a piranha in there, and the crowd will thin out. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:03, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Also consider that some fish can grow quite a bit. Catfish come to mind immediately, but that red-finned shark might also grow up to 6 inches long. You need to account for their future size, not just their current size, unless you plan to get larger aquariums as they grow. StuRat (talk) 03:08, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly, but don't fish tend to grow in proportion to the size of their environment? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:12, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Definitely not. That's a myth, and a particularly cruel one for large fish first bought as juveniles. They are called "tankbusters" for that reason, and often die from overcrowding or are abandoned by their owners. Some fish, however, will remain smaller in small tanks than what they would naturally grow to. But not because they're acclimating, but because their growth is stunted (i.e. those are unhealthy fish). Unscrupulous pet shop storekeepers will often tell you anything to sell the fish, particularly large species which they would need to get rid as soon as possible as their upkeep can become expensive once they become adults.-- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 12:46, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

So my plan to toss a goldfish into the swimming pool and wait for him the reach whale size won't work ? :-) StuRat (talk) 03:24, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

The standard rule of thumb is one inch of fish per gallon, assuming a slender body form like a guppy, not a goldfish. Google will confirm this generously, for example: http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/beginnerinfo/a/fishcalc.htm Guppies are actually best raised alone, and with live plants, since they will breed very easily, which is great fun, until the other fish, especially the shark, (or crowded guppyadults) start eating them. Even with only guppies, I wouldn't start with more than a dozen or so adults. You can get 8 males to four females since they are prettier and this will keep down reproduction. (Eventually you will have to separate sexes due to overcrowding, but not right away.) If you begin with a reasonable number of fish and only add one at a time you will find that overcrowding will solve itself with mutual predation. That can be upsetting when your favorite fish is the most delicate. μηδείς (talk) 03:23, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

To make it possible for non-Americans to contribute here, 30 US gallons is around 113 litres. HiLo48 (talk) 03:31, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Odd how the British always surrender to the French. That works out to 0,2655 inches de poisson pour litre. μηδείς (talk) 05:37, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

British surrender???? Never! Many of us here in the UK have not surrendered to the French! 30 US gallons is almost 25 Imperial gallons and these units are still used for fish tanks. Have Australians surrendered? If the 30 gallons were English (as BB thinks below) then to enable Americans to contribute, that's about 36 US gallons (or just over 136 of those metric things). Dbfirs 07:19, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Surrendered? To the French? Jamais!! Alors, formidable! -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 07:33, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Currently he has 5 fish in his English-system tank. How many fish is that in metric? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:12, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Latin for less than one and Greek for greater. Hence half a dekaichthyon. See metric prefixes. μηδείς (talk) 05:29, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

I live in one of those countries where the Illuminati have forced the adoption of the metric-kery system, and I've just come back from a local fish-market. When I asked for half a "dekaichthyon" of flake, they just looked at me like I was a crazy person. Mind you, people quite often look at me like I am a crazy person.--Shirt58 (talk) 07:09, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Or perhaps a flake. StuRat (talk) 07:15, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

?met?This user prefers metric units and cannot figure out why Americans and Brits have such a hard time with them.

HiLo48 (talk) 08:12, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

The converse seems to be the problem. I have never met an American (other than some women over a certain age) who is not comfortable with metrics. I had an outlandish editor who insisted (saying his younger Australian relatives didn't understand traditional measures!) on putting a metric conversion in the middle of a verbatim anecdote, to the effect of: "A journey of a thousand miles (1,609 kilometers) begins with a single step." μηδείς (talk) 17:48, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

The possibility exists that he was making fun of metrics. As those of us who like the old English system sometimes do. But he overlooked something: What's the metric equivalent of "a single step"? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:08, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Oh, no, this guy was quite serious. His main activity at wikipedia was to change traditional to metric. μηδείς (talk) 17:14, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

All countries have their weirdos. Obviously.  :) -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 21:27, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

I was wondering what an Aussie would think of this. Even if they couldn't give the exact conversion, I would expect people, simply because they were English speakers, to have a vague notion of an inch, a foot, and a mile. How would one understand English literature otherwise? In the US I learned what a fathom and a fortnight were in English (i.e., grammar and literature) class. Surely these concepts are not verboten?μηδείς (talk) 21:34, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Indeed not. A woman will go shopping and ask the butcher to cut her a kilo of whatever meat. Then she might drop into the hardware store to buy that couple of metres of rope her hubby needs. But then she goes into labour and delivers a healthy baby, which she announces weighs however many pounds and is however many inches long. This is true even for women who were born after we converted to the metric system, which would be most women of child-bearing age now. People still talk of quarter-acre or 10-acre plots of land, rather than however many hectares. Most people have a fair idea of how much a ton weighs or how long a yard is. They know a cricket pitch is 22 yards long. (But tell them it's a chain, and that'd bamboozle most people.) They'd have heard of pints of milk and know it was the standard quantity, akin to litres these days. Anyone who uses cookbooks handed down from their mothers has to get familiar with pounds, ounces, Fahrenheit degrees and so on. So, yes, we do have a pretty clear idea of what many of the old measures meant in real terms. Not so true when it comes to pounds, shillings and pence, which was admittedly a bit of struggle for some people even when that's all we had. That has zero practical application anymore, but it's sometimes encountered in older literature (we switched to decimal currency in 1966). Racegoers might have a better idea of a furlong than most people. Fathoms, leagues, pecks, bushels, roods, els, etc - these were always in the "not sure" basket for most people. There are no plans to abandon fortnights. Or dozens. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 23:38, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

I know it's quite tempting, but you shouldn't buy one each of every fish you like. Guppies are great for beginners, so are Mollies (but both species should be kept in groups - either all male or with more females than males, otherwise the females will be chased all the time by several males which is very stressful for them!), the other fish you already have not so much. Guppies and Mollies can cross breed so I wouldn't keep them together, but if you don't mind getting mixed offspring that's OK. The green spotted puffer is a sensitive fish that needs live feeding (snails, shrimp, small fish) and once it's mature it'll also start feeding on its tank mates (if it lives that long), so it's not a great “community tank” fish. AFAIK it's also only a fresh water fish during “childhood” (don't remember the correct term) and will need brackish water as an adult, and while Guppies and Mollies tolerate some salt I don't think you could keep them in brackish water. I wouldn't recommend keeping loaches (again, group fish that don't want to be kept alone!) together with a red-finned shark, s/he will become quite territorial once s/he's mature and attack the loaches (who can be quite agressive towards other bottom feeders, too). --Six words (talk) 09:22, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Like Six words already mentioned, green spotted puffers are not the fish for beginners. And while sold as freshwater fish as juveniles, once they reach 2 to 4 inches they should be kept in brackish water, and as full adults (about 6 inches) they should be kept in marine water. They grow to six inches, are quite territorial. They will eat or otherwise aggressively attack and kill their tankmates as adults. They also need to be fed with live hard-shelled foods so their teeth can wear down naturally (e.g. crustaceans, clams, and snails), otherwise their teeth can become overgrown and they will starve. Bottom-line, you should not have bought one if you wanted a community aquarium. The same applies for the figure-8 puffer and almost all other puffers, all of which should be kept to one fish per 30 gallons of water. See if you can return the fish for its sake (DON'T release it local waterways).

For the rest of your fish, guppies are very good community tank fish, though the mollies not so much. Like other poeciliids, they are always trying to mate and can overpopulate very quickly. Males can become aggressive to each other and to other species, and should best be kept either as single-sex groups or in harems (one male to at least 2 or 3 females). Rainbow sharks are best kept to only one individual per tank. Once they're larger they may also start eating your smaller fish, so if I were you, I'd see if I could return it too.

For a community tank, this guide is excellent. A good general bit of advice is to plan ahead on what fish you want to keep and stick with it. Do not add more every time you see interesting fish in the petshop. Also take note of the mouth sizes. Don't keep fish together with fish that have mouths large enough to swallow the other. And always research how big the fish are going to be when fully grown. There's a good list of fish suited for community tanks here.

Stick with keeping only two to three species of the more peaceful and active schooling/shoaling fish for mid to upper-levels of the aquarium. Like cherry barbs, rainbowfish, harlequin rasboras, or white cloud minnows. Keep them in groups of at least six, and they more than make up for the lack of variety in species in small tanks as they are quite entertaining to look at moving around. Note that some rainbowfish species can grow quite large. A male/female pair of a single gourami species is also good as mid to upper-level fish. Either dwarf corydoras or otos are also better than your rainbow shark as bottom-tank dwellers. These should be kept in a group of at least 3 individuals, and otos may require a supplementary diet of boiled greens.-- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 12:34, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Lepomis gibbosus, the beautiful Pumpkinseed Sunny.

My experience with gouramis is that they always end up killing each other and smaller fish like guppies. (They are also quite suicidal.) I don't recommend them, and certainly not with smaller fish. I never had a problem with guppies in groups of two males to one female, but I always only picked males with very fancy tails, so they were probably too slow to be too much of a problem--at least I never had a female die of harassment from a male. I was going to recommend trying to return the fish as the others have, but my experience is most stores won't take returns even if you don't want your money back. μηδείς (talk) 17:30, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

I meant the smaller gouramis, of course, given the earlier warning on mouth size - e.g. Trichogaster lalius, Trichogaster chuna, Trichopsis schalleri and Trichopsis pumila (which can only grow to a maximum of 1 to 3 inches). And yes, like other anabantoids (which include bettas), males are highly territorial with other males and will generally try to kill each other if kept together. And yes, larger gouramis are usually quite vicious. I've also kept wild-caught specimens of the much larger three-spot gouramis (which can grow up to 6 inches), and they are perhaps one of the most aggressive fish I've ever known. -- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 19:11, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

How does a fish commit suicide ? Do they jump out of the aquarium ? StuRat (talk) 17:58, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Yes, the gouramis will deroofestrate themselves quite vigourously. (I suppose they'll defenestrate if your tank has windows.) Also, even the small mouthed ones will attack sick, wounded, or vulnerable fish, leading to their death within a few days. I never got gouramis after the first year or so of keeping a tank. Long after I started keeping a tank, a friend gave me a two-inch white gourami (I don't know the species). It was a monster. It killed half the fish in my tank within a week. I put it in a goldfish bowl by itself in the back yard. It froze over the winter. And lived. It finally committed suicide (Bugs?) having no othe victim to harass. After that I stuck with guppies in one tank and a beautiful pumpkinseed sunny I netted one summer in another. The sunny was my favorite ever, and lived three years. μηδείς (talk) 22:20, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, I've been keeping a pair of lace gouramis for years, first with a swarm of cardinal tetras, now with a swarm of firehead tetras, some panda corydoras and amano shrimp. The only time one of the gouramis became agressive was when - after the female had died - I bought a new "female" that turned out to be male. Maybe I've just been lucky. --Six words (talk) 14:06, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

One thought, do they sell screen dividers, to keep the dangerous fish separate, yet still within the same aquarium ? (Of course, this won't solve the freshwater versus saltwater problem.) StuRat (talk) 17:58, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Yes, they do sell dividers and isolaters for breeding but they are ugly, clunky, and get dirty over time. The OP would probably be better off getting a separate tank for the guppies, which according to gourami are probably the least ideal in their company. Tetras could go in either tank. The other fish should hold their own with the murdering gouramies. μηδείς (talk) 17:53, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Analytical Ability/Reasoning questions

Dear Wiki Desk mates,

I am looking for an online resource/website/documents containing solved practice questions testing Analytical Reasoning questions (similar to the ones in Old GRE format). I am pasting out a sample question : SAMPLE QUESTION :

Six films (Quest to Hope, Rats, Sam, Terror, Victory, and Wellfleet are scheduled to be screened at a film festival. No more than two films may be screened during one day, but all of the films will be screened exactly once during the festival held Wednesday through Sunday. The screening schedule adheres to these parameters:

The producers of Terror will not allow it to be screened anytime prior to the screening of Victory. Rats and Sam are complementary shorts and are to be screened the same day. Quest to Hope and Wellfleet are both black-and-white films and should not be screened the same day.

Question 1 If Victory and Terror are screened the same day, which of the following must be true about the film festival schedule if it conforms to its parameters? (A) Quest to Hope and Wellfleet will be screened the same day. (B) Victory cannot be screened on Sunday. (C) Sam and Rats will not be screened the same day. (D) Exactly one day of the schedule will not have any film screening. (E) Each day of the schedule will have at least one film screening.

---

PLEASE HELP ME OUT.

THANKS, Chris — Preceding unsigned comment added by 175.110.112.185 (talk) 11:56, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Do you just want resources, or do you also want our help solving those sample questions ? StuRat (talk) 17:52, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

This Google search on "analytical reasoning questions" brought up a wide variety of sites that host such questions and answers. Perhaps some of them will be what you are looking for. - Karenjc 18:45, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

@ Chris, I just want the resources--online, free and accessible, offcourse :-) @karenjc, I have been through this , the results on the first 4 pages are absolutely crap and insubstantial. I would be obliged , if you can help me with something more concrete.

Regards, Chris — Preceding unsigned comment added by 175.110.112.185 (talk) 23:42, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

James D. Doss, my favorite mystery author, died in 2012. He lived in NM

and should be listed among the notable people in the Taos, NM, listing. Thank you. He was born in KY, don't know what city. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.60.95.194 (talk) 16:17, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

The article James Doss already mentions his death. I have editied the Taos, New Mexico article to mention him and added an entry to the disambiguation page, Doss. As an aside, I have my doubts about some of the entries in Taos, New Mexico#Notable people - it seems some of them might have had only a fleeting association with the town. Astronaut (talk) 17:02, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

I have noticed the fleeting association phenomenon in many such articles. My solution is to clarify the length and period of association, since if you simply delete them they grow back. μηδείς (talk) 17:36, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Why are Hiroshima and Nagasaki safe to live in now?

The surrounding areas of Chernobyl are still deserted and carry radioactivity warning. But why are Hiroshima and Nagasaki safe to live in now? Should there still be radioactive residue? Acceptable (talk) 18:23, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

There was just a lot less fallout in Hiroshima and Nagasaki than Chernobyl. The bombs were detonated very high above the ground and contained far fewer fission products than the Chernobyl accident. They're somewhat like comparing apples and oranges. A better comparison to Chernobyl would be something like Castle Bravo — a much larger bomb with much more fission products detonated at ground level. --Mr.98 (talk) 19:00, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

See Comparison of Chernobyl and other radioactivity releases#Chernobyl compared with an atomic bomb. One reason is that much more material was released during the Chernobyl incident than during Hiroshima/Nagasaki. (See [9] for a graphical depiction.) Another difference is the distribution of isotopes released. Hiroshima/Nagasaki was from a single atomic event by relatively pure uranium/plutonium. Chernobyl, however, was from a reactor core where the radioactive decay products had been sitting for a while under persistent neutron flux, leading to different isotope distributions. The final reason is simply time. It's only been 26 years since Chernobyl, but 67 years since Hiroshima/Nagasaki. Because of radioactive decay, even if they had started with the same amount of material, Hiroshima/Nagasaki would be less radioactive than Chernobyl, especially for those isotopes with a 2-40 year half life. And it's the short-half life isotopes that are usually the most concerning, as they're the ones emitting the most decay products in a given amount of time. (Although there are a number of longer-lived isotopes that are also a concern.) For example, this page [10] from the Hiroshima Peace Site notes that while the radiation was rather high for 24-48 hours after the blast, it rapidly decreased to normal background levels. -- 71.35.125.16 (talk) 19:33, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

So Hiroshima and Nagasaki are safe to life in currently? How many years since the blast was it seemed safe it to live in? Acceptable (talk) 19:46, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

I don't think the cities were evacuated at all, although that may be more because the dangers of nuclear fallout weren't well understood rather than because it was actually safe. --Tango (talk) 21:51, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

It is true that fallout and residual radioactivity was very poorly understood. It's a bit more to the nub of it to point out that most of what we know about the effects of fallout and residual radioactivity on human populations — even today — comes from studying the survivors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The Atomic Bomb Casualty Commission and its successor, the Radiation Effects Research Foundation, have been studying the hibakusha now for many decades, and lots of things — including our current reactor radioactivity standards — are derived from this very key "data set." --Mr.98 (talk) 02:19, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

There is the fact that the greatest danger is from isoptopes with short radioactive half-lives, since they give off the most radiation most quickly, but also decay and become harmless most quickly. According to these sources, 80% of the residual radiation dissipated within one day, and the area quickly (within days) reverted to having no more than the normal background radiation of any average place on earth. μηδείς (talk) 22:03, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

That is the greatest acute danger (i.e. will give you radiation sickness), but not the greatest chronic danger (i.e. will give you cancer in a few decades). The chronic danger comes from the medium-length half-lives that are absorbed into bone marrow and do unpleasant things over the course of many decades (e.g. Sr-90, a "bone seeker" with a 29 year half life — long enough to be significant for human lifetimes, short enough to be a significant source of radiation in quantity), and also can get circulated quite broadly into the general ecological system. It's true that the acute radiation risk of atomic bombs is a rather short window (hence the idea of fallout shelters, which are meant just to house you for a few weeks when things are the "hottest"), but the contamination problem can be quite long-term. --Mr.98 (talk) 02:19, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

The cities did have relatively high rates of diseases that you would expect from the exposure to fission products with long half-lives — e.g. leukemia, birth defects, and so forth. The abstract of this study suggests that by the 1980s the rates were more or less what you'd find elsewhere. It should be noted that we are talking about increased risk factors here for what are still rare diseases; lots of cities have different cancer rates and different risk factors. --Mr.98 (talk) 02:19, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Agree the mid-length isotopes are the most dangerous from ingestion, but our articles and what I have seen on the web imply there was little such fallout in the cities themselves, especially after the initial attack. In other words, the chance of ingesting Sr90 at ground zero itself within a few days after the attack was negligible. I am just repeating my understanding of what I have read above as a layman, so don't take it as an expert comment, so much as a question. μηδείς (talk) 03:59, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

The amount of mid-length fission products deposited into the soil of Hiroshima and Nagasaki has been a matter of controversy for many years, related to the fact that the US government at the time did want to downplay the fallout issue because it felt it would make it difficult to administer order in postwar Japan and because they feared, initially, it would create undue ambivalence among the American public with regard to the bombing.[11] I would not want to over-emphasize the contamination, but it was not zero. Again, the discussions I have seen suggest that the levels of certain associated cancers, particular leukemias, were elevated in the first generation or two after the bombs were dropped, but have dropped off. Even in their elevated state they were not extreme. --Mr.98 (talk) 12:49, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Problem solving

For many years, my interest has been in finding a general problem-solving (equivalently, decision-making) algorithm. This is essentially entscheidungsproblem (and certainly at least a superset of it) and it has been shown that there is no general algorithm for solving it. My biggest problem at the moment is reducing the scope of this problem to one which is solvable. For instance, one may limit problems to solve to synthetic problems (such as physical ones), although even then the scope is too large since there are computational and other issues. Another approach to find an algorithm which gives approximate solutions, where the approximation is optimal in some sense. Does anyone have any advice? Widener (talk) 20:30, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

First, are you familiar with systems engineering ? This is an attempt to handle problems in a multi-discipline way, which seems to be what you are aiming for. StuRat (talk) 20:46, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Also of interest might be Watson (computer), an attempt by IBM to answer any question. However, note that they gave up on having it think like a human, and settled for just doing a keyword search on terms they pull out of the question. StuRat (talk) 20:50, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

You'll have to at least reduce the problem to the point where it isn't turing-complete, which is how the original problem was proven unsolvable. I'm not sure how you would restrict it to "physical" problems, but even if you did many physical systems can simulate a turing machine. Using just a subset of the firts-order-logic you end up with problems like the Boolean satisfiability problem that are already pretty well-understood. I doubt you'll find a good definition for approximation - I can't see how you would have an approximate solution to the halting problem. 209.131.76.183 (talk) 11:54, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

• I suggest that you reduce your scope to solving the problem that you state here. Looie496 (talk) 18:30, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

smartass （￣ー￣）. Ssscienccce (talk) 19:03, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

WHAAOE, of course. See General Problem Solver and Soar (cognitive architecture). These systems solve problems in worlds described by states and rules. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 23:07, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

September 17

What other famous movies besides Wizard of OZ has portrayed witches to be cackling, old, wrinkly, evil, you get the idea..............

What other famous movies besides Wizard of OZ has portrayed witches to be cackling, old, wrinkly, evil, you get the idea.............. Neptunekh2 (talk) 16:57, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

I think it all started with the Scottish play. --TammyMoet (talk) 17:12, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Indeed, many versions of Macbeth portray witches that way, although Shakespeare's original depiction of them is somewhat more spiritual than demonic.    → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 17:25, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

How famous is famous enough? Does Hocus Pocus count? Dismas|^(talk) 17:42, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

How about Suspiria or Wild at Heart (film)? It's hard to measure the famousness of films, it's true. The Witches (1990 film) is another obvious contender.  Card Zero  (talk) 18:14, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

More infamous for camp than famous, perhaps, was the "Wilhelmina W. Witchiepoo" character from the H.R. Pufnstuf TV series and Pufnstuf (film). StuRat (talk) 18:29, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Then there's the witch in Pumpkinhead, although not sure if that qualifies as "famous", either. StuRat (talk) 18:34, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Both the Tom and Jerry animated shorts and the Loony Tunes ones featured the stereotypical pointy-hatted green-skinned warty witches. See "The Flying Sorceress" (T&J) and Witch Hazel (Looney Tunes) for examples. --Jayron32 19:05, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

At the very least, Disney's Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937 film), out 2 years before TWOZ, had the witch pretty much that way except for having normal-colored skin. So it was probably already a well-known stereotype. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:13, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

It's probably more fruitful to ask the opposite question... 'cause right now, I'd say "all of'em have". Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 22:17, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Not really. "Good witches" are about as common as "bad witches" in fiction. We have the two good witches on the Oz books, conflated into one in the movie (Glinda), Samantha on Bewitched, Sabrina the Teenage Witch, etc. Of course, there is the stereotype that good witches are pretty and bad witches are ugly, although Snow White was an exception, where the evil witch was apparently "the second fairest in the land". Wicked (musical) also played around with our good versus evil assumptions. StuRat (talk) 23:39, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

In Snow White, the witch wasn't cackling, old or ugly. That was just her disguise in her attempt to help save Snow from incurring unnecessary medical expenses. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:22, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

And for UK readers, although I don't think Evil Edna was ever in a movie... Willo the Wisp --TammyMoet (talk) 01:35, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

The Witch in Snow White? She was that "pink right down to her underwear", first in a long line of lefty California congresswomen, Helen Gahagan Douglas. μηδείς (talk) 04:10, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

For late 70's and 80's kids T-Bag will bring back memories... gazhiley 12:50, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

That article says you're a decade behind the times. StuRat (talk) 14:15, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

I presume gazhiley is referring to the year of birth of the children, not when they were children, in which case the suggestion seems reasonable. Nil Einne (talk) 17:50, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

are horror movies more popular in the summer or at Halloween?

are horror movies more popular in the summer or at Halloween? Neptunekh2 (talk) 16:59, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

How do you objectively define "more popular"? Are you referring to rentals of videos? Box office sales of new releases? If the latter, it might be a biased viewpoint since studios may want to connect Halloween and the movie. Dismas|^(talk) 17:34, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Even defining "horror movie" could be slippery. But I think Neptune's best bet would be to take the top 10 or 20 horror movies by total box office, then see what time of year they were introduced. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:09, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Only one of the Friday the 13th (franchise) release dates was not between late April and Early August. I suggest you check other such franchises. μηδείς (talk) 23:16, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Yes. Shadowjams (talk) 11:00, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Resolved

Finding 1990 census maps

Hi! I want to find what the city limits of College Park, Georgia were in 1990. How do I access the 1990 U.S. census maps so I can make it source-able to Wikipedia and accessible to an average person? Thanks WhisperToMe (talk) 20:38, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

If you don't mind me asking, to what end are you trying to establish those city limits? It would help to answer the second part of your question, which would be to make it a valid source for a Wikipedia article. In order to answer whether it is or isn't a valid source, we need to know "a source to say what"? Also, there's no requirement that a source is accessable online. It merely needs to be reasonably availible to the public, such as in a public library. Have you tried the public library of College Park, Georgia? They would likely have old maps in their archives. --Jayron32 22:17, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

I am trying to find whether the headquarters of ValuJet (in 1994) were ever in the City of College Park, and AFAIK the best way to establish that is through the 1990 US Census map of the College Park city limits. Unfortunately I cannot access the College Park, GA library in person, but perhaps a Wikipedian in Atlanta could find this out? WhisperToMe (talk) 22:51, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Well, the article claims that the headquarters was at 1800 Phoenix Boulevard, Atlanta, Georgia. No idea if this postal address was within the city limits of College Park. However, you want to take care with drawing your own conclusions from primary government documents. Several places in Wikipedia (including WP:OR, WP:PRIMARY and WP:BLPPRIMARY) caution against drawing any conclusions or performing your own analysis on a primary source. I have no opinion one way or the other whether or not this is or is not an appropriate use of the primary source here, but a map clearly is a primary source, and you should be aware that one should not try to put one's own interpretation on what the primary source means. --Jayron32 03:50, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

This is different: it's not OR or SYNTH to take a map showing a city's boundaries and from that to say that a specific address is inside or outside those boundaries. Nyttend (talk) 12:14, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Maybe. I'm just saying that I wouldn't call the issue settled one way or another. One could make a case from similar situations using other government documents that similar usages aren't allowed. For example, one cannot use a government document to establish the birthplace of a person. One can cite a reliable secondary source which does so, but not the original government documents. So there are cases where similar uses of primary sources aren't normally allowed. I'm not saying he's fine, and I'm not saying he's not. I'm saying I wouldn't call the matter unambiguosly settled. --Jayron32 12:49, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

(ec) As far as the Census Bureau goes I think you will need to use GIS to access the 1990 geographic data, which is online in a database/format known as TIGER, here: Cartographic Boundary Files. Unless you're experience with GIS and TIGER it might prove difficult to find the right data and make the map you want. I don't think the Census Bureau has online mapping apps or premade maps for 1990 data at this point, other than for larger things like whole states, county boundaries, etc. I could be wrong, the Census runs a vast website. There may (or may not) be 1990 census map data for your city somewhere on the Internet other than the Census's website, but I wouldn't know where. And yes, as Jayron32 said, I would check local sources, such as the city and county's Planning Departments, GIS Departments, and such. Fulton County GIS is here. If nothing else you could probably call or email them. They probably have 1990 census geographic data even if they don't make it available online. And they might have such data online, perhaps via that Annexation Query Tool or one of their other web apps. Pfly (talk) 22:52, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Here are the Fulton County census tract maps for 1990 in pdf format.    → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 07:05, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Note that these maps state: "The boundaries shown on this map are for the Census Bureau's statistical data collection and tabulation purposes only; their depiction and designation for statistical purposes does not constitute a determination of jurisdictional authority or rights or ownership or entitlement." You need either the official municipal map or a map authoritatively based on that map. Our College Park, Georgia article links to the current map; perhaps if you contact the city they can provide you a 1994 map. John M Baker (talk) 17:03, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

A quick look on Google Maps tells me that the surrounding businesses all identify themselves as being in College Park. And this Google map seems to show the city limits. Do you have any reason to suspect that 1800 Phoenix Boulevard is somehow outside College Park, or that the city limits might have been different in 1990? Astronaut (talk) 18:07, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

September 18

British working class leisure in the 1800s

What was the most common way British working class men, women, and children spent their leisure time, in the 1800s? Was there any leisure time activity that men, women, and children could all enjoy? Or was there no activity that included both genders and all ages? Rebel Yeh (talk) 01:47, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

My impression is that working class men, women, and children in the 1800s didn't have much leisure time. In fairness, though, the situation changed enormously between the beginning of the century and the end of the century. The beginning of the century was the era of Oliver Twist. By the end of the century, many working class families could take a train to go bathing at the seaside. Looie496 (talk) 02:29, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Liquor? Doesn't the line go something like "Work is the curse of the drinking class?" or something like that? --Jayron32 03:38, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Gaming, fighting, animal fighting, church, education associations, labour (cf: Frame knitters in EP Thompson). The 19th century, and Britain both are very large. Fifelfoo (talk) 08:03, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

As the century progressed, the music hall became the most popular way for working people to pass the time. It was quite inclusive: audience and performers were all ages and both (or all) genders. I'm not sure what Fifelfoo means by listing "labour" as a leisure time activity: labour was what people did at work as far as I know! --TammyMoet (talk) 08:18, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Did you not like the answers you got from Straight Dope (AK84 has the best answer there) or Yahoo? CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 15:58, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

EP Thompson argues cogently over a very extensive section of The Making of the English Working Class, that labour outside of the factory system, for example the frame knitters of the late putting out system experienced sufficient job control and pleasure in work that their work was effectively an extensive leisure activity. The factory system was imposed during the beginning of the 19th century, it was no more natural than people starving amidst plenty, or deliberately addicting millions of Indians and Chinese people to opium because of a balance of trade issue. Fifelfoo (talk) 10:29, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Marxists should remember that the large majority of people were not relaxing by working, and that the question was "most common way", so something that appealed to only a small number of people has no chance at being the answer to the question. Nyttend (talk) 12:13, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Historical research has moved on since EP Thompson wrote, and there are records of the utter degrading poverty suffered by many framework knitters, especially in the area of Leicestershire. I shall try and locate the reference for the statements of the FWK in Kibworth later. I am not convinced that any of them would love their work so much that it was a leisure activity. What the OP was looking for is something that varied from place to place, decade to decade. However the life of the working class was never Utopian. (Now I remember why I read Thompson's book once and disregarded it - it just didn't ring true to my experience.) --TammyMoet (talk) 12:31, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

I've had a look round and can only go to the secondary source I recall, which refers to the Muggeridge report on the abject poverty suffered by the framework knitters in Kibworth in the early 19th century. Also to Sir Frederick Eden's survey "The State of the Poor". As Michael Wood says: "the reality was anything but romantic... for all members of a family to be engaged in order to scrape a meagre living was a sign of poverty and wretchedness rather than well-being". The factory system hadn't reached Kibworth by 1850. One thing the factory system did was to establish set hours for work and leisure, and reading Wood's book, it could be said to have improved the lot of framework knitters, at least in Kibworth. --TammyMoet (talk) 13:08, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

The idea of the slow dissolution of the moral economy is still valid the last time I checked, and my reading on frame work knitters is that they were beneficiaries of a skill/power construction over a limited period of time. For the penury of the fwk look into Thompson. I think it is undeniable that pre-Factory work systems had a higher level of worker control of immediate performance of duties and that kinds of leisure were interleaved throughout the working day in many occupations due to that worker control. Penury isn't incompatible with leisure as contemporary advanced western societies demonstrate with regularity. Fifelfoo (talk) 22:40, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Interesting but what's all that got to do with the original question then. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 15:58, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Nothing. It's just the way of non-alienated work-leisure: hunting down a useful answer in the morning, fishing for a good argument in the afternoon, rearing controversy in the evening, and criticising after dinner. [12] Itsmejudith (talk) 16:22, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Anyway, Alan Metcalf in "Leisure and Recreation in a Victorian Mining Community" lists (non-sporting) reading and self-education, temperance societies, gardening (including flower and vegetable shows), friendly societies, choral singing, brass bands, "quadrill societies" (ballroom dancing), attending lectures and shows by travelling entertainers, religious activities, community celebrations and of course, the pub. I can't see the pages on sport, but whippet and pigeon racing had their origins in the Victorian working classes and of course football. Catriona M. Parratt, More Than Mere Amusement: Working-Class Women's Leisure in England, 1750-1914 argues that women were often excluded from leisure activities because of domestic duties or low wages requiring long working hours. She does say that on Saturday night, many would get dressed up and head for the main street of their town which would be busy with entertainers, stalls and booths like a fairground. Alansplodge (talk) 16:36, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Identifying a cigarette carton

File:Simuation of carton production - showing problems with die cut.jpg is up for deletion at WP:PUF as a "Derivative work of a box or something". Can anyone identify the production date? It's clearly a US production (note the bit about US taxes), and I'm wondering if it might qualify as {{PD-US-no notice}}, but I know nothing about cigarette cartons and thus don't know how to search for information. Nyttend (talk) 06:18, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

"Clope" is apparently French slang for a cigarette, and the lack of a brand name makes me think they are either a generic product or meant to be repackaged as French cigarettes. I can't find anything about the elephant logo. So, no luck so far. StuRat (talk) 06:34, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

It does look like someone (with some knowledge of French) created a fake cigarette label for illustrative purposes. The elephant logo is also incongruous, and probably a play on a more famous dromedary-like brand of cigarettes. --Xuxl (talk) 09:37, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

The biggest clue might be in the the file name which includes the word "simulation". Indeed, the uploader, User:Peterqherman, seems to be working on a draft article in his userspace, though that and a few image uploads is all they have done in 18 months. Astronaut (talk) 17:59, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

What is a waddy?

Not meaning an Australian Aboriginal weapon. This one is a kind of street. ... I have heard of streets, roads, avenues, lanes, boulevards and so on all over the place. But this one I remember from when I was a kid and lived near there. It's called "Whaleback Waddy" in Boonton Township, New Jersey (see map here). It's not Whaleback Waddy Street, just Whaleback Waddy. Does anyone know how and why this thoroughfare has such an unusual name? Is it related to the Australian term? Are there waddys (waddies?) like this anywhere else in the U.S., or elsewhere in the world? Thank you.    → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 06:59, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Maybe it's a corruption of wadi, a valley.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 07:33, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

I clicked on Helen Gahagan Douglas a couple of threads above, and learned she was born in Boonton Township, New Jersey, a place I'd never heard of before. Now, it's mentioned again here. Spooky. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 08:21, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Ah! The Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon has visited itself upon you, I see! --Jayron32 12:29, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Will I survive?  :) -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 03:29, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

To the OP's question. Interesting. Occasionally, you do run into street names that don't have "street" or "road" or "way" or "avenue" at the end. The most famous I can think of is The Bowery in New York City, which isn't "Bowery Street" or "Bowery Road". It's just "Bowery". I wonder if that is a case here. I can't find any reference to Waddy being used as a street or road designation anywhere. It's not listed at Street or road name, so perhaps this is a case where Waddy isn't supposed to be a street designation, but it is somehow part of the name in another way. Though I also can't, for the life of me, figure out what a Waddy is in this context, even what a Whaleback Waddy is. The street definately exists (a google search brings up addresses, and confirms that that is the complete name). I'm still looking, but I've turned up nil so far. --Jayron32 12:36, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

There's a town called Waddy in Shelby County, Kentucky. No idea if there is a connection. --Jayron32 12:40, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

There's also Samuel Danks Waddy. No idea if there's a connection there either. Marnanel (talk) 16:08, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

This says it is Western US slang for cowboy / origin uncertain. The same is stated here. Ibid, whaleback is defined as a cargo vessel with a convex deck. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 12:56, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

I'd say a word for an Australian weapon is more likely to be relevant here than a word for a cowboy, despite the relative geographic distances. —Tamfang (talk) 05:44, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Shantavira's suggestion has some logic to it as wadi is a geographical term, but as I recall, Whaleback Waddy is not in a valley, but on a hillside, and a rather steep one at that. (Although it has been about 45 years since I have been there!)    → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 15:45, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Note that roads are often not named for where they are but where they lead. For example, we have Michigan Avenue, in Chicago, Illinois. So, if Whaleback Waddy leads to a valley, that may explain the name. Think of it as "Hill Valley Road", a road on a hill, leading to a valley. StuRat (talk) 15:58, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, Michigan Avenue does end up at Lake Michigan on LSD, but Ohio Street doesn't go to Ohio. --Jayron32 17:57, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

There's just no accounting for some things. Obviously, Michigan Avenue fronts on Lake Michigan, or at least it used to before all the landfill. It's crossed by streets named Ontario, Erie, Huron and Superior. There's an Ohio street, yes. There's also an Illinois Street and a Chicago Avenue, in case anyone forgets where they are. There are other state streets, including Delaware, and fittingly enough, State Street (that Great Street). There are also presidential streets, including Adams, which is often skipped in cities that use presidential streets, as he wasn't very popular. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:42, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Indeed. When I lived in Chicago, I lived in the midst of the President streets, on Polk Street; other parallel streets were Harrison and Taylor, two presidents that don't often get streets named after them either. --Jayron32 02:25, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

The answer will probably be in the bowels of the local municipal authority's records. Someone must have decided to call it that, and that decision must be recorded somewhere. My own experience of looking for the origins of certain street names has been fraught with surprising difficulties. As often as not there's no online record, and you have to go to your local library or track down the council's archivist and look up some dusty old tome recording the deliberations of the council in 1943 or whenever the street was named. Even then, it might record only that that name was chosen on that day, but not why. Best of luck. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 20:52, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

A relative of mine came home drying some tears from elementary school one day. At the end of the day, the teacher announced that anyone who lived on a road was dismissed. Then anyone who lived on a street. Then anyone who lived on a way. Anyone who lived on an avenue. Anyone who lived on a court. A place. The only student left, she broke out sobbing. "What's wrong?" asked the teacher. "I live on a North!" μηδείς (talk) 01:14, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Extra-antipodarians might not quite get it, but there’s a whimsical little gem of a movie called Road to Nhill (1997). It includes a scene where someone’s phoned the tow truck driver to explain where the scene of the accident is, and they say it’s on (what sounds like) Nhill road. The truckie comes back with "Is that Nhill Road or the road to Nhill?" Because it turns out that there is a road called "Nhill Road" somewhere in the locality but it doesn’t take you to Nhill. You have to be on "the road to Nhill" to get to or from Nhill. That road has some other official name, probably the Western Highway, but the locals call it "the road to Nhill". Hence the title. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 03:29, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

How is Nhill pronounced? μηδείς (talk) 03:44, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Exactly like "nil". -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ ^{[your turn]} 03:45, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps the person that named the road was once a sailor on a whaleback that happened to be called Waddy. Odd name for a ship but not unheard of, 1929 and 1891. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 15:45, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Huge differences in the number of patents generated by big companies in different industries

This is something I've noticed and it confuses me. Why is it that a company like Samsung produces thousands of patents a year and another company like Cessna produces only 10 patents every 10 years. It's not like Cessna isn't developing new planes and I'm sure there are thousands of little innovations in every new plane that could be patented. But why is there such a huge gap in patent activity?

Weirdnoises (talk) 10:15, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm sure that at least part of the answer is that patent portfolios are important elements in the corporate "armoury" in the IT and electronics sectors: "I've got more patents than you have, so you're probably infringing more of mine than I am of yours. Do you want to slug it out, or shall we come to an amicable arrangement recognising my superior fire power?" --ColinFine (talk) 12:28, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Civil aviation manufacturers are in fact extremely conservative when it comes to product design. The designs of some of Cessna's most popular products such as the 182 and 210 date back many decades. Any change that is significant enough to be patentable would most probably require the entire aircraft to be certified as a completely new type - an extremely expensive and high risk excercise. One could say that in aviation the first law of design is "Don't fix what aint broke!". The differences between a 1970 Cessna 182 and one that came off the factory line yesterday are either cosmetic or in accessories such as radios and instruments - which are not made by Cessna. Even the engines they use are basically WW2-era technology. Cessna does not in fact develop more than maybe one or two models in a decade and then in most cases its a matter of detail tweaks of existing designs. New "blank sheet" designs are very rare. Roger (talk) 13:17, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

I don't know, but is it possible Cessna has no significant business rivals? - Jarry1250 ^{[Deliberation needed]} 13:50, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

I think Roger hit on the reason. Completely new designs in aviation are very risky. Consider that composite materials used in recent decades in aviation have been the cause of at least one crash (because, unlike normal materials, composite materials are more flammable and those weakened due to delamination aren't always visually apparent: [13]). It's better to stick with proven technology. In consumer electronics, on the other hand, anyone selling a decades-old design would go bankrupt fast. StuRat (talk) 14:02, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Different industries have different economic ecosystems and different relationships to patents. Consumer electronics as a field has been engaged in patent wars for decades now. Comparing Samsung (or any electronics company) with Cessna is comparing apples with oranges when it comes to making sense of their patent situation, much less the nature of their research and development cycles. --Mr.98 (talk) 14:35, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

...and there are many patents for Apples. StuRat (talk) 14:44, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

This actually was being discussed today on NPR just an hour or so ago. According to that discussion, the competition level among technology companies these days is so intense that they tend to patent every little development in every little part, in an attempt to stay ahead of their competitors (and to hold them back). It might be a new kind of microcircuit that they have no use for at this time, but someone at the company thinks it might be useful someday, and if it ever does get used, they want to be certain it is their company that uses it. (I forget who was making that point. However, it was on the program "Talk of the Nation" on 18 September 2012, in a segment titled "Can Anyone Compete With Apple?" Go here if you would like to listen to it.    → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 21:38, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Do delivery services intentionally delay slower deliveries ?

I am expecting a package to be delivered soon (my dimmer switches), and have been tracking it's progress. I choose the free shipping option, which promised 5-8 days. It looks like they may actually be delaying it to make it exactly 8 days. I say this because it was "scanned in" at the FedEx processing center one day and not "scanned out" for 48 hours. Now, they certainly can process a package through the center quicker than that, and this time of the year I wouldn't expect any backlog (unlike at Xmas). So, do they intentionally hold up packages which haven't paid for premium shipping, to make customers more willing to pay for the upgrade ? StuRat (talk) 14:41, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

I don't know the reason, but I've seen, while tracking packages coming to me, entries of "Not scheduled for delivery" or similar.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:44, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

I don't have any special knowledge of FedEx, but I do have a few points that might be useful. From personal experience with UPS and a few other courier services (though not FedEx, oddly), there's little or no difference between the "free shipping" option and the expedited services until you get into the premium same-day kind of thing. The slower, "free", option seems to have more to do with the supplier getting around to putting it in the post; i.e. the slow down is internal to the vendor, not the delivery company. I've also worked in the distribution business for years and can tell you that, for courier services, hanging onto your stuff is the last thing they want to do: space is always at a premium. If there's a lag, it probably comes down to the individual run (eg the plane flight or the truck run, etc.) being filled to beyond capacity so lower priority stuff would get bumped first. Matt Deres (talk) 16:40, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Yes, the capacity argument makes sense. Just like passenger airlines like to have passengers on standby so they can jam somebody in every seat, shipping companies might benefit from using lower priority packages this way, to ensure that every truck is full. StuRat (talk) 16:43, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

That's a good analogy. In this context, your "shipped free" package is flying economy while the package shipped with the next day guarantee is flying first class, with predictable results when there's an unanticipated bit of crowding. Matt Deres (talk) 00:56, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

If you live in a remote or sparsely populated area they might make a delivery there once a week or when they have to send a priority item in your direction. I don't know if FedEx do this, but I know that this is the way a furniture store scheduled deliveries. -- Q Chris (talk) 12:13, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Retrieve all questions asked on Wikipedia by Sunny Singh (DAV)

I have asked a number of questions on "Wikipedia:Reference desk" but I don't remember their topics and the date on which the question was asked. Is there any way to retrieve all of them? I searched archives but it didn't displayed all of the asked questions. Sunny Singh (DAV) (talk) 14:52, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Do you mean this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Sunny_Singh_(DAV) 93.95.251.162 (talk) 15:16, 18 September 2012 (UTC) Martin.

That's OK in his case, since he has few contributions outside the Ref Desk. However, it does list all contributions here, whether posing a question, updating it, or answering one. A search of the archives using his name is another option: [14]. However, this also lists all Ref Desk contributions, whether they are questions, updates, or answers, and also omits the title of the Q. In addition, recent questions aren't in the archives yet. We do seem to lack a more rigorous way to list all of the questions a person has asked here, without any chaff. StuRat (talk) 15:24, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

I've had this problem, too, when I want to look at a Q I posted a few days back, but don't recall the desk, or know if it's archived yet. I generally end up manually searching multiple Desks for it, by doing a find on my screen name. I could also look through my contributions, but that tends to be just as tedious. StuRat (talk) 15:29, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

You can narrow down the search by selecting the "Wikipedia" namespace from the pull down list (like so). However, I've often wondered why the new section tag doesn't seem to work like a proper tag and appears invisible to the filter. Matt Deres (talk) 16:44, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

You can set user contributions to display 500 entries at a time then ctrl eff for "new section"--but agree, there's gotta be a better way.

Each page has "What links here" in the left column (under "Toolbox"). Do that from your User page; unlike your Contributions list, you won't get duplicates. I see that the list is conveniently short (unlike mine!). —Tamfang (talk) 05:37, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Wooden Spoons

Why when you put a wooden spoon across a pot of boiling liquid no matter how long it boils it will not spill over the sides of the pot? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.12.45.98 (talk) 18:04, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Well, first, it's not true. It's very easy to construct scenarios where boilover will happen with a spoon (for instance, if the pot is filled to the brim). There's also this sort of boilover, which won't be meaningfully affected by a wooden spoon, either. But the general concept is going to be a scenario where something in the pot boils and produces large bubbles, such as the starch-reinforced bubbles that form when you boil pasta. A rough-surfaced whatever (such as a wooden spoon) serves to break those bubbles on contact, reducing the chance that the pot foams over. — Lomn 18:12, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

See the wikipedia article Boiling chip which has a short description of how something like a wooden spoon can work to reduce boilovers. In chemistry, the term "boilover" is also often called Bumping. --Jayron32 18:16, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Yep. I'll note, though, the distinction between boiling chips and the spoon: the chips are intended to prevent superheating that leads to the sudden explosive onset of boiling; what's key is that they have nucleation sites to allow bubbles to form. The spoon across the top of a pot is to break up bubbles occuring during normal boiling; the rough texture disrupts rather than enables bubbles (but note that a wooden spoon in the pot serves as a boiling chip). In the case of a pot foaming over, boiling chips won't have much effect. There's also the other pasta option of adding oil to the water to disrupt the surface tension that enables large bubbles. — Lomn 18:48, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

AH. Thank you. I misread the question. I thought this was refering to putting a wooden spoon inside the pot. Mea culpa. --Jayron32 18:53, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

New research of TOBACCO,,, health item.

Recently I was reading an very interesting story about Tobacco, they were looking for why the tobacco was so indicting and they found a complely different substance with valuable results. I was called away and when I returned all was lost on my computer. It had a note that GNC was selling it but the local GNC store was no help. I would like to find out what it is, which company is selling it and other due diligence, can you help.; I was on the GNC site but suddenly I was here?? Yours Truly Peter Epp — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.73.143.164 (talk) 19:43, 18 September 2012 (UTC) I've reformatted this for ease of reading. Matt Deres (talk) 19:46, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Assuming you mean "addicting", it's primarily the nicotine in tobacco which makes it addicting, although people then develop a psychological link between the tar and nicotine, so that they crave the tar as well. For this reason, nicotine gum, patches, and inhalers aren't 100% effective at smoking cessation. StuRat (talk) 21:48, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

It should be noted that Nicotine is chemically similar to, and was discovered along side of, several B vitamins, including Nicotinic acid (aka Niacin) and Nicotinamide. The first synthetic Niacin was created in the lab by reacting nicotine with nitric acid. That doesn't mean, of course, that Nicotine of itself has any particular benefit like B-vitamins do. But the history of the two compounds and their discovery is linked. --Jayron32 22:35, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

September 19

Jamie Lee Curtis early life and career.

I was writing a paper about who my favorite actress was and I chose Jamie Lee Curtis and I have to do a work-cited page on where I got the article, who wrote the article and when, But I keep asking these questions and it will not answer me. I realize that several people may have been writers for these articles. but I would like to know who wrote it? I like to do reaearch too and it would be very helpful if I know who wrote about her and her career? Thanks, please e-mail me the results. <email redacted> — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.61.104.64 (talk) 04:19, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

If you mean our article on Jamie Lee Curtis, the list of authors is here: [15]. However, that's a huge list of screen names and internet addresses, not their real names, in most cases. StuRat (talk) 04:29, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

What you should do instead is look up some of the references we used, here: Jamie_Lee_Curtis#References. Those will have (proper) author names and dates. For example, if you want to write about how much any of her movies made, you could use this reference from our list: [16]. The date is at the top of that page. In this case the author is "Nash Information Services, LLC": [17] (an author isn't always a single person). For a second example, if you want to write about her appearing on NCIS, use this source: [18]. The date is listed at the top, and the author, Patrick Day, is listed at the bottom. You should also list that he works for the Los Angeles Times. StuRat (talk) 04:31, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

You may also be interested in WP:Citing Wikipedia. Dismas|^(talk) 04:47, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

What's the opposite of false precision?

I've seen this enough times to wonder: an article gives a date vaguely ("the late 1800s" or "near the end of the 19th century") in the opening sentence, and precisely ("1887") elsewhere. In Wikipedia, I can suppose that the original writer of the lede didn't know the exact date and no subsequent editor bothered to pin it down, but when I see it in a magazine – where each article was presumably written all at once, usually by one person – I have to infer that it's a deliberate stylistic choice to spend several extra words to avoid precision, or maybe to help people who don't know where 87 falls in the range 00–99 (or 1–100).

(The immediate provocation of this mini-rant was an article about a TV series that ran from 1985 to 1992 according to the infobox, and "mid 1980s to early 1990s" according to the lede.)

Do you do this sort of thing, or know of a style guide that urges it? If so, why? —Tamfang (talk) 06:07, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

I wouldn't make it intentionally vague unless there was a good reason. For example, there might have been an earlier failed pilot, and a farewell made-for-TV movie, so then the question comes up as whether to include those in the dates of the run or not. StuRat (talk) 06:22, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) The example you give does seem odd, but I think this has to be examined writer by writer and writing by writing. An article or paragraph might in one place say the Federal Reserve system was a product of the Progressive Era to locate its general context in contrast to such New Deal institutions as the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, but elsewhere give 1913 as the precise date of its establishment. —— Shakescene (talk) 06:31, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

If the vaguer period gives significant context, like "the Progressive Era", I might well do it myself. But "the early 1900s" (or for that matter "Tamfang's grandparents' childhood") doesn't add anything. —Tamfang (talk) 19:30, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I don't know what it is called, but it is a literary device that I have often used in my writings. It is used when a writer wants to summarize something in the lede, and still leave information for the rest of the article. To put all the details in the lede makes it hard to read, and makes the rest difficult to write. It works the same with places. For example, it is better to say "Neil Armstrong was an American astronaut," rather than "Neil Armstrong was an astronaut from Wapakoneta, Ohio."    → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 06:33, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

See also the inverted pyramid style. --Mr.98 (talk) 11:57, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

"American" is meaningful, relevant, and more concise than the alternative. Consider in contrast: "Neil Armstrong was an astronaut born in the temperate latitudes." —Tamfang (talk) 19:30, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Speaking generally, when writing non-fiction for a non-expert audience, the accumulation of details is often discouraged by editors. In pieces I have written that were meant to be read by non-specialists I've been asked to get rid of all unnecessary proper names and dates, not because they aren't accurate, but because a flood of specific details supposedly makes people think that all details are equally important, and — according to these editors — makes it hard for the average reader to follow the bigger arguments. There's some truth to this, I suppose, though I'm generally not a fan of underestimating the reader. --Mr.98 (talk) 11:57, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

I can understand omitting unnecessary dates. Do you replace them with vague ones? —Tamfang (talk) 19:36, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Solve this please

Questions 1 - 5

There are six soccer teams - J, K, L, M, N and O - in the Regional Soccer League. All six teams play each Saturday at 10 a.m. during the season. Each team must play each o f the other teams once and only once during the season.

Team J plays team M first and team O second. Team K plays team N first and team L third. Team L plays team O first.

On the first Saturday, which of the following pairs of teams play each other ?

(A) J and K ; L and O ; M and N (B) J and K ; L and N ; M and O (C) J and L ; K and N; M and O (D) J and M ; K and L ; N and O (E) J and M ; K and N ; L and O

Which of the following teams must K play second ?

(A) J (B) L (C) M (D) N (E) O

What is the total number of games that each team must play during the season ?

(A) 3 (B) 4 (C) 5 (D) 6 (E) 7