Talk:Korean Air Lines Flight 007

Template:Korean requires |hangul= parameter.

An event mentioned in this article is a September 1 selected anniversary.

Apparently they were looking for an excuse. If they were just into protecting their airspace they would have called the pilot as soon as they knew he was off course.

Ah, but such was the climate of those times. --Uncle Ed 22:33 Mar 6, 2003 (UTC)

I was thinking of including a reference to Gary Moore's song "Murder in the Skies", but I was worried that it might seem trivial.... - Lee M 00:29, 3 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Can someone rewrite the first sentence? It is hard to read. Kowloonese 00:13, 18 Dec 2003 (UTC).

There is a problem with details here. This flight originates very late at night at JFK. Arrives at Anchorage like 2-3AM the next day. Then after like 2 hours goes on. But... two hours into the flight after Anchorage, there is a day change zone, making it the next day again. Thus, plane located there on September 1 must have originated on August 30, not the 31. Unless, it started right after midnight. But still, would not add up.

CIA connection asserted

User:Stempy81 has added: "KAL was originally a CIA proprietary. USAF wanted to use a civilian plane as 'bait' to test the Soviet reaction to an incursion inside their borders. The flight took them over two Soviet military bases on the island of Sakhalin. 15 minutes behind KAL007 in international airspace was another civilian plane, KAL015, which relayed KAL007's messages to ground control. There are too many inconsistencies with normal procedure for this whole incident to have been accidental." Can you cite a source for this information, and at least mention the source as being the source? (e.g., "According to foo, a well-respected Pentagon official..." or maybe, "According to a fictionalized account of what might have happened, some people currently believe..." Lupinelawyer 23:16, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Concerning flight times

Replying to the question concerning flight times. During Daylight Savings Time (as would have been in August/September, Anchorage, Alaska (Airport: ANC), would have been -8 hours from GMT/UTC. New York would have been -4 hours. Referring to the The Port Authority of NY & NJ China Airlines currently (as of 7/24/2005) flies every other day non-stop from JFK to ANC (flight CI 011) on its way to Taipei, China (TPE). The flight to Anchorage takes 7hrs 20min--leaving JFK at 23:45 Eastern time and arriving at ANC at 03:05 local Anchorage time. Assuming your arrival time of 3:00 am Anchorage time, the plane would have been basically on the same flight schedule as the current China Airlines departing New York ~11:45 pm Eastern Time August 31. By the way, what is your source for the arrival time in Anchorage and the layover time? The best I have found is a narrative that the passengers boarded the plane late in the night toward midnight on August 31 (in Grady's book, p. 507). The shoot-down of the flight was by various sources ~18:30 GMT Sept. 1, some 5 1/2 hours after it took off from Anchorage. For reference, Sakhalin is 14 hours ahead of Anchrorage (Anchorage is -8hr GMT, Sakhalin is +10hr GMT). 13:00 GMT September 1 = 5:00 am (-8 hours) Alaska time = 11:00pm Sakhalin time September 1. If you add 5 1/2 hours to that you get 18:30 GMT Sep 1, but indeed Sakhalin local time is 4:30 am September 2.

Summary:

5:00am ANC 9/1 = 13:00 GMT 9/1 = 11:00pm Sakhalin 9/1 - Depart Anchorage

10:30am ANC 9/1 = 18:30 GMT 9/1 = 4:30am Sakhalin 9/2 - Approximate time of crash

Crossing the International Date Line in the Bering Sea between Alaska and Russia, going west, during Daylight Savings Time, you gain 20 hours (18 between Anchorage and Sakhalin).

Kona1611

Washington Post Sept 1, 1996 article

There is, supposedly, and article by Washington Post by Alvin A. Snyder that discussed that the tape released by the US immediately following the incident was incomplete, and Snyder claimed that said Su-15 did radio and accomplished the internationally recognized symbol of force landing that all civilian pilots should know. http://www.kimsoft.com/korea/kal-007.htm I cannot locate the article in washingtonpost.com, but in a previous essay that I had written for school, the very same article came up on Lexis Nexis first, in which to speed things up (I was using a telnet interface to LN), I googled for the article. Indeed if someone reconfirmed the existance of this article, it doubts the clearly US point of view presented in this article

Minor detail about 1978 KAL incident

Said KAL was not shot with a missile. It was shot with the onboard gun/cannon, which indeed killed 2 passengers. They were forced down in Murmansk. Quotes were available in microfilm in NYT/WP articles relating to the KAL 007 tragedy.

Aeroflot Suspended in U.S.

In response to User:Cleared as filed, Two things, You can look in any U.S. newspaper during that time, I remember reading articles appearing the the New York Times and the Washington Post so if you check the archives. At the time I also called the Aeroflot office in New York and a recording answering saying that flights are now only operating from Canada. Also you cannot go by the information on the Aeroflot website because that information can be construde as bias, They are not going to list the fact that the United States Government kicked them out and as I recall there were several flights operated each week from Los Angeles, New York and Washington D.C. prior to their license being revoked, The fact that there was a war in Afghanistan had no effect on their U.S. operations because flights only operated to Moscow from these three U.S. Airports. User:Misterrick 06:21, 21 August 2005 (UTC).[reply]

I'm not talking about Aeroflot's website, I'm talking about the Aeroflot article here on Wikipedia. I don't know what its source was, and you still haven't posted a source, so what is the factual basis for it other than it's something that you remember from twenty years ago? —Cleared as filed. 05:30, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

In addition, here is a link from the Ronald Reagan archives that states that Aeroflot service to the U.S. was suspended in 1981 due to the Soviet Union's actions in Poland. I think without some evidence to back up your assertion (other than your memory), the statement should come out until it can be properly backed up. —Cleared as filed. 05:37, August 21, 2005 (UTC).

Um... Check what I said, I pointed out that there were articles in the New York Times and Washington Post about this, Unfortuantely my library doesn't have access to the archives of either of these newspapers but I'm sure there's someone out there that can find it. Misterick 07:18, 21 August 2005 (UTC).[reply]

Well, I pointed out at least one source that contradicts it. I'd say that puts the burden of proof on you to come up with a source; saying that there were articles twenty years ago without giving us dates or pages isn't really citing a source. I'll take out the statements until we can verify them. —Cleared as filed. 06:33, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

Charles, Here is your burden of proof, From the United States Embassy, Moscow, Russia website (http://moscow.usembassy.gov/links/history.php) go down to September 8, 1983 and you will see that it says "U.S. President introduces sanctions against the Soviet Union in connection with the incident involving a Korean civilian airliner, which violated Soviet airspace and was consequently shot down in the Sakhalin Region. As of September 15, Aeroflot branches in Washington and New York were closed and all American aviation commercial contacts with Aeroflot were banned." Therefore I am reinstating my previous edits since this comes directly from a U.S. Government source. Misterrick 09:32, 21 August 2005 (UTC).[reply]

Looks good! I'll add those references to the pages. —Cleared as filed. 13:54, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

Flight callsign

Why is this flight KAL007, not KAL7 that would be the normal way of calling this flight? Usually after the three-letter ICAO code there are no zero prefixes. However, in the ATC conversation they used "Korean Air zero zero seven" which is confusing... KE007 is valid, in IATA codes you do see prefix zeros. 213.243.160.111 11:52, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Moved this cleanup tag from talk: You must add a |reason= parameter to this Cleanup template – replace it with {{Cleanup|September 2005|reason=<Fill reason here>}}, or remove the Cleanup template.
While the article can be improved, it's not in obvious dire need of cleanup. In any case, tags on articles should be used as a last resort when there are real difficulties sorting out an article - in most cases, the solution to the problem is to hit the "edit this page" button. Enchanter 22:19, September 1, 2005 (UTC)