Talk:William McKinley/Archive 1
This is an archive of past discussions about William McKinley. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
copyvio
Again, 66.81.31.xxx , you have uploaded copyrighted materials, this time from [1]. It is (c)1994 Corbis Media. Please stop it. --LMS
first lady
The full maiden name of First Lady McKinley was Ida Saxton, but the linked article has her as Ida Saxton McKinley, so my change was obvious. --65.73.0.137
James "Big Ben" Parker
I think it's odd that there's no mention of this fellow in the assasination account, note that Parker is the African American fellow shown in the picture entitled "Leon Czolgosz shoots President McKinley with a concealed revolver" grabbing Czolgosz. Parker was considered something of a hero, and his actions prevented Czolgosz from firing a third and fatal shot.
Moved from article
Trivia
- McKinley's portrait appeared on the U.S. $500 bill from 1928 to 1946.
- At his inauguration, the only item of jewelry McKinley wore was his Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity badge that he received from Allegheny College.
- After McKinley's assassination, the mandate of the Secret Service was altered to include protection of the president.
- McKinley was the last U.S. Civil War veteran to be President.
- A small area of McKinley's birthplace, Niles, Ohio, known as "McKinley Heights" is named after him.
- McKinley was one of four presidents to be shot and killed by an assassin.
- A major US military base in the Philippines was named Fort McKinley. It later became Fort Bonifacio, and is now a major real-estate development area called Bonifacio Global City. The major road leading from Ayala Avenue to its entrance is still called McKinley Road.
- The house in which he died is now commemorated by a plaque which stands at the original place of the house. That plaque stands next to a parking lot for Canisius High School and Delaware Avenue.
McKinley Park Chicago
McKinley Park, a very lovely park, in Chicago Illinois is named in honor of President McKinley and should be added. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.145.19.215 (talk) 03:08, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
Remotely Unlikely?
The sentence concluding Disputed Quotation makes no sense: "The conclusion of historians such as Lewis Gould is that it is entirely possible although remotely unlikely McKinley said the last part.[3]" What is remotely unlikely but likely.
- Not a good use of the word "remotely" - if it were removed, the sentence would make a lot more sense. MagnesianPhoenix (talk) 05:53, 29 June 2007 (UTC) [signed retroactively]
Damn he;s ugly. =) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.238.178.91 (talk) 13:10, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
Go Bears?
How does one get rid of that "Go Bears" comment below the policies? I went to edit the page to remove it, and it was not there, but it is still on the page itself.
More vandalism there in the first paragraph today. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.8.20.68 (talk) 02:02, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Commemorative Services
I've added a source tag to the statement relating to the commorative services held in the U.K. I find it more than a little odd that the Anglican King of Great Britain would order a memorial for an assassinated U.S. president, who was a Methodist, to be held in a Roman Catholic cathedral. CanadianMist 15:40, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
I fail to see your point here. I think it may, if you'll pardon me, be because you are expecting British people to behave like Americans. The things you are missing are:
- Neither Westminster Abbey nor Saint Paul's Cathedral are Catholic, as you've said, both are Anglican. Don;t let the name "Abbey" fool you.
- The denomination of the ruler of Great Britain is very fluid. She is only Anglican when in England. By law she changes denomination to Presbyterian when she goes to Scotland, for example.
- In many countries protestant churches are in mutual communion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.3.64.1 (talk • contribs) 27 March 2011 (UTC)
If he had died just 3 days earlier...
Imagine, if McKinley died just 3 days earlier, what would the people and the media have thought, regarding the same day of our time? --Shultz 17:22, 1 December 2005 (UTC) hi
I don't think they would have cared as much... people tend to care more when someone is assassinated then when they just die... --The MasterPedia 19:49, 16 April 2006 (UTC)Talk
Agreed. My great-grandparents were married on September 11, 1911 and that's no big deal. The fact that a president died within a week of a date that will weigh heavy on our minds for another decade or two (ask the average person if they know the date of the Day of Infamy) is no reason to write a new section of a Wikipedia page. MagnesianPhoenix (talk) 05:53, 29 June 2007 (UTC) [signed retroactively]
McKinley redirect
Because "McKinley" links to the disambiguation page I cleared out the "The name "Mckinley" redirects here..." etc. part.
Naufana 22:55, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
Middle name
Does anyone know his? VolatileChemical 14:12, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
Monuments
he sure does have alot of monuments doesnt he? its crazy because i didnt know there was one in muskegon! I live really close to muskegon, so thats really weird... ^-^ can you feel the sunshine? does it brighten up your day? 18:53, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
Well, relatedly, is that list of monuments necessary? There isn't a similar section on the pages of any other US Presidents, and this one really is ridiculously extensive. I'm not seeing the relevance.81.178.140.206 (talk) 16:29, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
Trivia, and Sensibility
What is meant by this sentence from the Trivia section?
McKinley was the last US Civil War veteran to be President-beginning with Andrew Johnson {excepting Grover Cleveland}.
Apart from the misshapen parenthesis and the broken punctuation, what is it supposed to mean? I would have corrected the cosmetics, but I don't understand the intent. - Corporal Tunnel 13:54, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- it doesn't mean much so I fixed it to say McK was the last veteran to be president. Rjensen 14:49, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks! - Corporal Tunnel 15:06, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Those anarchist assassins, I tell ya...
The very first paragraph ends, "He was assassinated by an anarchist and succeeded by Theodore Roosevelt." Would it not be appropriate to substitute Czolgosz's name for "an anarchist"? I think that that would have a more neutral tone, whereas the current phrasing calls to mind stereotypes of anarchy (murder, destruction, chaos, etc.). Czolgosz was a wanna-be anarchist anyway. Obviously, that's my opinion, which should not be reflected in the article, but a neutral POV should be. MagnesianPhoenix (talk) 05:53, 29 June 2007 (UTC) [signed retroactively]
- While many parts of the article are certainly not neutral, this one actually is. Strictly speaking, the term "anarchist" is correct in this context, but it is not referring to anarchy in the context that you are characterizing it.
- The Anarchist movement is a philosophical movement based on the idea that acts of oppression are all derived from the ownership of private property. Since private property ownership is not possible with out a central government, the anarchist movement suggests that the solution is to eliminate the central government. Look up William Godwin for further explanation. Czolgosz was definitely an anarchist, and it was his commitment to this philosophy that motivated him to shoot McKinley. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.125.45.10 (talk) 19:03, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Of course shooting McKinley was a manifestation of his anarchist beliefs, but not all anarchists believe in senselessly murdering politicians. Godwin certainly didn't. Anarchism is very diverse in belief and philosophy, and naming an individual by the name of such a group creates a generalization. It's tantamount to saying, "He was assassinated by a Christian." Out of context, many Christians would take offense at that. Fortunately, John has come up with a compromise, for which I thank him. (Thanks also to Murderbike for the typo correction.) See also the section Assassination of President McKinley of the article on Emma Goldman for a discussion (in which I had no part) of Czolgosz's affiliation with anarchism or lack thereof. MagnesianPhoenix (talk) 08:16, 19 November 2007 (UTC) [signed retroactively]
- That's all true, but I want to note here that violence up to and including assasination as a way to influence the political process was a very popular idea among anarchists in the late 19th century, even if all of them didn't practice that extreme. I think a fair comparison would be to say how martyrdom was a very popular idea among early Christians; even though there are no real Christian martyrs today.
- I also don't think if we were talking about a situation in a country divided by religion, that if a Protestant were assassinated by a Catholic, or a Muslim by a Christian; that it would be incredibly controversial to say that outright.
- Just like I don't think if we were talking about Franz Ferdinand, it wouldn't be controversial to say Franz Ferdinand was assassinated by a Bosnian Serb.
- It would only be insulting to say "he was assassinated by a Christian" if Christianity had little to do with the conflict that created the assassination.
So its not offensive because theres not many anarchists? Wow...brilliant >_> —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.224.236.27 (talk) 03:58, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Baby, you can ride my car
Worth mentioning he was first President to ride in an automobile? (It was a Stanley Steamer, FYI.) Trekphiler 23:17, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
Domestic Policy
This portion of the article is very poorly written, or was very poorly edited. I find it difficult to understand what's going on in a few places.
What did the Republican platform endorse? And what did McKinley resist? Also, "long and unfortunate" doesn't sound NPOV
2 very long sentences, the first should maybe be a list with links. What is classified service, etc?
What's the Wilson law, and are we suddenly in the past?
???
Why is it only explained at the end of the paragraph what the bill is trying to achieve? And it's not really explained at all, except that it changes the "average rate" in comparison to the "Wilson Bill" and the "McKinley rate." What rate, and again what is the Wilson Bill? Presumably the same as the Wilson law mentioned above.
I don't have the knowledge to correct this article, but it should certainly be done. Miken32 (talk) 03:29, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
"In Civil Service administration, McKinley took one long and unfortunate step backward. The Republican platform, adopted after President Cleveland's extension of the merit system, emphatically endorsed this, as did McKinley himself." That McKinley's step was "unfortunate" is not a fact but one person's opinion. Arguably, a civil service employee could be a poor worker protected by rules preventing his/her dismissal, while a political employee might be excellent, motivated by the realization that he can be fired quickly if he doesn't perform. [User: dweinkrant]
19th Century techniques?
It seems odd to say "19th century techniques" in reference to an operation that occurred in 1901. I guess the techniques may have been developed in the 19th century, but they were occurring in the 20th. Maybe something like "the surgical techniques of the time" would be a better phrasing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.160.246.219 (talk) 20:48, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
telegraph?
The article states that "McKinley was the first president to have the use of telephones and telegraphs giving him access to battlefield commanders and reporters in mere minutes, and he used this to his full advantage."
He may have been the first to have the telephone available (though how far did this reach? surely not to Cuba or the Philippines?) But he was certainly not the first to be able to communicate with generals in the field by telegraph--Lincoln did so during the Civil War. Winterbadger (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 12:25, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Demand for war
"McKinley for months resisted the public demand for war..." This sounds like opinion to me. Is there any reference or citation for this? If not, I would argue it should be removed, or clarified. Doing some quick and light research it seems this "public demand" referred to was stirred up by members of congress and the yellow journalism of Pulitzer and Hearst. As written, the line seems to blame the general population with clamoring for war...would it be more accurate to call it the "press's demand" or "congress' demand"? Krizman (talk) 18:13, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
member-elect to the 48th Congress
"McKinley was elected as a Republican to the United States House of Representatives and first served from 1877 to 1882, and second from 1885 to 1891." "He presented his credentials as a member-elect to the 48th Congress and served from March 4, 1883, until May 27, 1884. He was succeeded by Jonathan H. Wallace, who successfully contested his election."
Could someone elaborate on these two statements? I can not find any information on the "contested election" in either the Wallace article or the one for the 48th congress. What happened? Was he recalled due to a recount? 67.78.145.42 (talk) 20:33, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
The house where he died
I seem to remember the article mentioning the house where he died, and how it was torn down in the 1950s. It sat at the corner of a school parking lot and a number of children watched its demolition from the school windows. After the demolition the site was paved to expand the parking lot. What happened to this text???? And yeah, I AM going to need an answer on this. --208.65.188.23 (talk) 22:36, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
- Nevermind, I found it. It was in the article about the assassination itself. --208.65.188.23 (talk) 22:41, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
After being shot, McKinley was immediately operated on at the Pan-American Exposition hospital. He was then taken to John G. Milburn's home, on Delaware Ave., in order to recover. Milburn was a prominent citizen of Buffalo, and was the President and nominal head of the Exhibition. His house, at the time, was essentially a mansion. Deprived of the possibilities that antibiotic therapy might have had on McKinley's prognosis and recovery (they had not been discovered or mass produced yet in 1901), McKinley died there a week later, ostensibly from gangrene. And yes, due to urban blight, the house was demolished in the 1950s. Dr. Dan (talk) 00:30, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Children
they do not say if he had any children —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.232.233.238 (talk) 28 April 2010
- McKinley and his wife, Ida Saxton McKinley, had two daughters, Katherine, and Ida. One died in childhood and the other in infancy. Katherine was three and a half years old, and her sister, Ida, barely five months old. Both died over twenty years before McKinley became President. Dr. Dan (talk) 00:41, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
Masonry
Was he a Mason? Drutt (talk) 18:28, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
- Yes - see section on military career. Hoppyh (talk) 23:17, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
Clean up of images needed per WP:image
I have removed the following image to eliminate overcrowding in early life section. (File:William McKinley Sr.jpg|thumb|left|150px|William McKinley, Sr., father of President McKinley) Carmarg4 (talk) 12:57, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
I have replaced the following (poor quality) image of the home with an image of the wife - more significance. (placement of either of these would be earlier but no sufficient room) Carmarg4 (talk) 13:14, 8 July 2011 (UTC) File:McKinley home Canton.jpg|thumb|200px|The Home of William McKinley, at Canton, Ohio
I have removed the following image to eliminate overcrowding in the 1900 election section. File:William McKinley-head&shoulders.jpg|thumb|right|200px|President McKinley photographed by B.M. Clinedinst, circa 1900. Carmarg4 (talk) 23:45, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
I have removed the following audio file due to overcrowding.{listen|title=Campaign speech of 1896|filename=William McKinley campaign speech 1896.ogg|description=Phonograph recording of a McKinley campaign speech from 1896. Carmarg4 (talk) 12:22, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
I have removed the following image of the McKinley memorial - there is another, better quality image of this in the memorial section. File:Mckinleymemorial.jpg|Albumen print of the McKinley Memorial, shortly after its completion, ca. 1906–1915. Hoppyh (talk) 13:00, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
I have replaced the following image of Ida McKinley with one which more clearly depicts her. File:Ida McKinley.jpg|thumb|right|300px|Ida McKinley. Hoppyh (talk) 11:30, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
I have replaced (with an improved one) the following image of Leon Czolgosz. File:Czol following day.jpg|right|thumb|250px|Police mug shot of Leon Czolgosz #757. Hoppyh (talk) 12:26, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
I have replaced the following image with a pic of the USS Maine in the Spanish American War section.File:McKinley Destroys Imperialism Straw Man.jpg|left|thumb|200px|McKinley fires a cannon into an effigy of imperialism in a 1900 Harper's Weekly cartoon. Hoppyh (talk) 21:21, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
The following image was removed due to overcrowding.File:Ful-McK-Cle.jpg|thumb|right|300px|Chief Justice of the United States|Chief Justice Melville Fuller administers the oath to McKinley. Ex-president Grover Cleveland to the right. Hoppyh (talk) 12:37, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
I removed the following to eliminate overcrowding. File:McKinley's last address wide2.jpg|right|thumb|250px|McKinley's last speech delivered September 5, 1901 at the Pan-American Exposition. Hoppyh (talk) 22:30, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
List of memorials needs to be filtered to remove insignificant items
The list of memorials has grown out of control. I have begun by removing the following items. Carmarg4 (talk) 12:41, 11 July 2011 (UTC) McKinley Elementary Schools: Fairfield, Connecticut; Elgin, Illinois; Kenosha, Wisconsin; Toledo, Ohio; Marion, Ohio; Lakewood, Ohio; Fort Gratiot, Michigan; Port Huron, Michigan; Sault Sainte Marie, Michigan; Casper, Wyoming; San Diego, California;Bakersfield, California; Corona, California; Redlands, California; Beaverton, Oregon; Arlington, VA; Abington Township, Montgomery County, Pennsylvania; Parkersburg, West Virginia; Erie, Pennsylvania; York, Pennsylvania;North Bergen, NJ Wyandotte, Michigan; Tacoma, Washington; Cadillac, Michigan; Poland, Ohio and Enid, Oklahoma. * McKinley High Schools: Washington, D.C.; Honolulu, Hawaii; Canton, Ohio; Niles, Ohio; Sebring, Ohio; Baton Rouge, Louisiana; Saint Louis, Missouri (now McKinley Middle Classical Leadership Academy).
More items removed as follows. Carmarg4 (talk) 12:45, 11 July 2011 (UTC) Calle McKinley (McKinley Street), Mayagüez, Puerto Rico. McKinley Vocational High School, Buffalo, New York. McKinley Technology High School, Washington, DC. McKinley Parkway, part of the Frederick Law Olmsted Park System of Buffalo, New York. McKinley Mall]], Blasdell, New York (Southtown of Erie County, New York). William McKinley Junior High School, Bay Ridge, New York.File:500-2f.jpg|thumb|Series 1928 or 1934 $500 bill, Obverse|The $500 Bill with McKinley's portrait. McKinley Middle Schools:Racine, Wisconsin; Baton Rouge, Louisiana; Flint, Michigan; Kenosha, Wisconsin; Cedar Rapids, Iowa; and Albuquerque, NM. McKinley Highway: South Bend, Mishawaka, and Osceola, Indiana (formerly route of US20) McKinley Street: Waynesburg, Ohio, Dearborn, Michigan, Tacoma, Washington, Omaha, Nebraska, Phoenix, Arizona McKinley's, a cafeteria in the Campus Center building at Allegheny College in Meadville, Pennsylvania, where President McKinley briefly attended as an undergraduate student.
More items removed as follows. Carmarg4 (talk) 12:51, 11 July 2011 (UTC) McKinleyville, California. McKinley, Maine. McKinley Statue, Dayton-Montgomery County Public Library, Dayton, Ohio. McKinley Statue, Walden, New York. McKinley Park, Chicago, Illinois McKinley Memorial, Redlands, California commemorates visit by the President. McKinley Monument, Antietam Battlefield, Maryland. McKinley Statue, Lucas County Courthouse Toledo, Ohio. McKinley Monument, Columbus, Ohio on the grounds of the Statehouse where McKinley served as Ohio's Governor. McKinley Statue, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania outside Philadelphia City Hall. The $500 bill featured a portrait of William McKinley. McKinley Park in Soudan, Minnesota: a state park and campground named in his honor. Obelisk that was created to honor a visit from McKinley in Tower, Minnesota. McKinley Mezzanine: Albany Law School of Union University, Albany, NY. McKinley Neighborhood, Minneapolis, Minnesota Fort McKinley Manila, Philippines renamed Fort Bonifacio but now a redevelopment called McKinley Hill.
Philippines quote needs more cites
I have moved the following comments about the quote on the Philippines as it lacks specific citations. Hoppyh (talk) 18:13, 19 August 2011 (UTC) McKinley was a religious person but no other observer or reporter heard McKinley say God told him to do anything. McKinley never used the term "Christianize" (and indeed it was rarely used by anyone in 1898). McKinley operated a highly effective publicity bureau in the White House and he gave hundreds of interviews to reporters, and hundreds of public speeches to promote his Philippines policy. Yet no authentic speech or newspaper report contains anything like the purported words or sentiment. The man who supposedly remembered it – an American Civil War veteran – had written a book on the war that was full of exaggeration. A highly specific quote from memory years after the event is unlikely enough – especially when the quote uses words like "Christianize" that were never used by McKinley. The conclusion of historians such as Lewis Gould is that, although it is possible this quote is legitimate (certainly McKinley expressed most of these sentiments generally), it is unlikely that he spoke these specific words, or that he said the uplift and civilize and Christianize them, part at all.For a discussion of this question, see Gould (1980), pp. 140–142.
Article improvement project
I'm starting to beat the drum to "make the Presidents blue" (that is, make them all FA). This one needs work. I'm going to start by improving Mark Hanna but hope to get to this by the end of the year.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:52, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
- I agree, Wehwalt. Cmguy777 (talk) 01:25, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
Article improvement project
I'm starting to beat the drum to "make the Presidents blue" (that is, make them all FA). This one needs work. I'm going to start by improving Mark Hanna but hope to get to this by the end of the year.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:52, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
- I agree, Wehwalt. Cmguy777 (talk) 01:25, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
Info Box
I think McKinley's info box needs to include his congressional service. This is how it is done for other President pages. The problem is that he served for many years but kept changing congressional districts, because back then they redistricted more often. So that makes the infobox very long. Which leaves three options - 1) Let it be long and follow the convention for other Presidents 2) the status quo which leaves off the time in Congress or 3) Just have one set of data for his time in Congress and somehow deal with the 2 years he was out of office. I prefer 1, but I'm interested in what others think. If you go back through the history you can see where I did this, before it was undone, to see what it looks like. volcycle (talk) 03:57, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
- Is there a way to do it in a collapsable manner?--Wehwalt (talk) 22:26, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
- I'd just as soon leave it out. Infoboxes are getting too huge, to my mind. But if there's consensus to add it, I agree with Wehwalt that it ought to be collapsable. --Coemgenus (talk) 00:22, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
Hawaii
This article makes it sound like Hawaii wanted to be annexed and was annexed rightfully. Pro-American sugar businessmen illegally took over the government for the sole purpose of having it annexed to America to avoid sugar taxes and after creating their own government in Hawaii, they repeatedly requested the U.S. to annex Hawaii. They did not have popular support of the Hawaiian people and were illegally supported militarily by U.S. marines who landed there under the pretense that they were defending American lives and property, but in truth American lives and property were not being threatened, and the sugar businessmen were simply forcing themselves into power with the help of U.S. military. The Kingdom of Hawaii and Queen Liliuokalani did not approve of annexation at all. The 1893 Cleveland-Liliuokalani Executive Agreements between both countries agreed that Hawaii was illegally taken over and should have had its kingdom's sovereignty restored. This was completely ignored after McKinley went into office and signed the annexation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.234.141.226 (talk) 22:35, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
- I agree that the Hawaii annexation information in the article needs to be clarified, expanded, or modified. Cmguy777 (talk) 01:27, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
- Certainly, Hawaii will have its place, as we work on the article.--Wehwalt (talk) 01:35, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
- We can avoid the POV revisionism by sticking to the facts. there was a revolution in 1893 that overthrew a brutal ("I will behead them all" she promised) Queen who wanted to repudiate constitutional monarchy and become a dictator. All the major countries of the world recognized the new government of the Republic of Hawaii. The "popular support of the Hawaiian people" never existed--the Queen certainly did not hold elections and by 1898 the old Hawaiian population was outnumbered by newcomers. The issue was partisan in the US --Democrats opposed annexation because they did not want any Asiatiac citizens in the USA, and Republicans wanted to expand in the Pacific. (The terms of annexation made all Hawaii citizens regardless of race into US citizens--and for the first time they had voting rights.) "illegally taken over" is called a revolution -- most countries in fact have them sooner or later. (One is going on in Syria right now, and last year Libya & Egypt etc had one.) Rjensen (talk) 01:43, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
- Certainly, Hawaii will have its place, as we work on the article.--Wehwalt (talk) 01:35, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
- I'm sure we can find a happy way to phrase all this.--Wehwalt (talk) 09:21, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
- as far as president McKinley was concerned. there was a government in operation in Hawaii that was recognized by all the major powers. The old Queen had been overthrown and no one paid her attention. It was threatened by a possible takeover from japan. It strongly wanted annexation to the US (for military protection and for access to the US sugar market) The Democrats strongly opposed annexation of Hawaii (and the Philippines) because they did not want Asiatics. The Republicans were much more liberal on race and wanted an empire, hence bases in Hawaii. The Democrats blocked a treaty (needed 2/3 vote) so the Republicans voted annexation by resolution (50% vote), just as texas had been annexed by resolution in 1845. They offered citizenship to all citizens of Hawaii (most of them non-white) and set up elections. The heir to the old throne Prince Kuhio was elected as a Republican to Congress in 1902. Rjensen (talk) 09:42, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
- Lets avoid jingoistic claims that the imperialistic annexation was justified on moral grounds. The US wanted a naval base, the planters wanted to rule the islands. The Marines were sent in. An early example of US "gunboat diplomacy." See [2], [3], [4] . Edison (talk) 05:22, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
- And the planters would not have won the next election. And there were claims that Japan was flooding the island with immigrants as a prelude to takeover. Let us find a way to phrase this neutrally and briefly, that doesn't have to go into all of that.--Wehwalt (talk) 09:52, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
- Lets avoid jingoistic claims that the imperialistic annexation was justified on moral grounds. The US wanted a naval base, the planters wanted to rule the islands. The Marines were sent in. An early example of US "gunboat diplomacy." See [2], [3], [4] . Edison (talk) 05:22, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
- as far as president McKinley was concerned. there was a government in operation in Hawaii that was recognized by all the major powers. The old Queen had been overthrown and no one paid her attention. It was threatened by a possible takeover from japan. It strongly wanted annexation to the US (for military protection and for access to the US sugar market) The Democrats strongly opposed annexation of Hawaii (and the Philippines) because they did not want Asiatics. The Republicans were much more liberal on race and wanted an empire, hence bases in Hawaii. The Democrats blocked a treaty (needed 2/3 vote) so the Republicans voted annexation by resolution (50% vote), just as texas had been annexed by resolution in 1845. They offered citizenship to all citizens of Hawaii (most of them non-white) and set up elections. The heir to the old throne Prince Kuhio was elected as a Republican to Congress in 1902. Rjensen (talk) 09:42, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
- I'm sure we can find a happy way to phrase all this.--Wehwalt (talk) 09:21, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
- [outdent] when McKinley took office there was a Republic of Hawaii that was legally recognized by every government in the world. (all revolutions are "illegal" according to the person being overthrown--did we not see that last year in Libya, Egypt etc? ) But Hawaii is 1897 was beyond the "illegality" allegations. Rjensen (talk) 09:56, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
- Please spare us "The Brutal Queen was gonna Behead Everybody" propaganda. "Illegality" aside, it was blatant imperialism, and a takeover on behalf of Dole and the non-Hawaiians, by "sending in the US Marines" and "running up the US flag" because the US wanted the islands for a coaling station and naval base. McKinley endorsed it, after his predecessor did not. Do not bring in irrelevant comparisons to 2011-2012 revolutions in Libya and Egypt, please, unless McKinley has somehow come back from the grave and regained the presidency. Edison (talk) 22:12, 4 March 2012 (UTC)