Talk:Pall-mall

Cue sports Start‑class Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Cue sports, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of pool, carom billiards and other cue sports on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Cue sportsWikipedia:WikiProject Cue sportsTemplate:WikiProject Cue sportscue sports

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WikiProject Cue sports to-do list:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Article requests : Lots of high-priority articles need to be created:

List of wanted articles...

Games: A bunch of high-priority game redlinks, e.g. American four-ball billiards (redirs to Four-ball billiards but not specifically covered there)
"Legends": Edwin Kelly, Charlie Peterson (pool player) (all BCA Hall of Famers); George Franklin Slosson, Maurice Daly (billiards player), Frank Ives, George Butler Sutton [not George H. Sutton, the one with no hands]
Male pool bios: Hsia Hui-kai
Female pool bios:
Male three-cushion bios: Dion Nelin & Jozef Bel Philipoom
Female carom bios: Aygen Berk Saygıner
Aristic pool bios: Nick Nikolaidis, Mark Dimick,Sebastian Giumelli, Eric Yow
Unranked in current pool but notable: Mike Eufemia, Shannon Daulton, Jimmy Reid (pool player) [speed pool champ], var. Mosconi Cup players
Non-player figures: Mitch Laurance, George Fels
Five-pins bios: Gustavo Zito
Organizations: Joss Tour
Events: WPA World Nine-ball Championships (pre-1997), BCA Open Nine-ball Championship, World 14.1 Continuous Championship, International Challenge of Champions (pool)
Media and misc.: Iwan Simonis (leading billiard cloth maker), Joss Cues (major cue mfr.), The Baron and the Kid [Johnny Cash film], Ultimate Pool Party [TV show]
And: everyone/thing listed at WP:CUEGAMES, WP:CUEEVENTS, WP:CUEORGS, WP:CUEBIOS, & WP:CUEMISC. Also a Cue sports world records article (many can be pulled from bio articles like Geet Sethi, Guinness Book will provide others, and so will BCA and other orgs., websites and books like Shamos 1999).
Meta: Outline of cue sports (OoK; cf. [1], etc.) – presently redirects to Cue sports, but this is not an OoK page.
Internal pages: Something like: [2][3]). Such pages are not fluff, but can be good places to find recruits for the project, possibly including subject-matter experts, especially if cross-referenced to the project. Also, Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Cue sports (cf. [4][5][6]).

Cleanup : Thomas Engert, Marlon Manalo
Copyedit : Jonni Fulcher
Expand : Cue sports techniques#Carom shots (section needs to exist), Straight pool, Alfredo de Oro,Jeanette Lee (pool player)
NPOV : Andy Segal (major WP:COI and WP:V issues, too), Jose Parica (it's bad!); Efren Reyes, Thomas Engert, Dennis Orcollo, Dick Jaspers
Photo : Category:Wikipedia requested photographs of cue sports and Category:Wikipedia requested photographs of cue sports people
Split : List of World Eight-ball Champions - blackball stuff needs own article {draft split from real eight-ball one (draft).
Stubs : loads of players in Category:Cue sports stubs
Update : Arcade game (link to bagatelle, bar billiards, etc.)
Verify : Cue stick (mostly WP:OR!), Frank Taberski (has major fact conflict between BCA & NYT sourcing), Russian pyramid, add sources to Unreferenced BLPs
Wikify : Chicago (pool), Jonni Fulcher
Other :
- Create timelines, both textual and graphical. See link for various guidelines and examples. We need an overall one for cue sports generally, and more specific ones as we drill down into more specific topics (timeline of nine-ball, timeline of Willie Mosconi's career, etc.).
- Form sections: Exhibition game needs section on cue sports; could later form a new article with "Main article..." xref to it. What other general articles need cue sports sections?
- CopyVio rewrite:
- Clarify: What is the "continuous pool" listed above "14.1 continuous" at Alfredo DeOro?
- Delete or defend:
- Move/Rename (and Redirect):
- Redirect:
- Unorphan:
- Ensure: that rules discussions in game articles & the Billiard techniques article do not violate WP:NOT#IINFO.
- Help fix: WP:CUEBIOS#Pool players (women) is nearly empty!
- Help develop: the lists of WP:CUEORGS and WP:CUEEVENTS
- Images: improve articles with images from commons; create pics and add them to commons as GFDL/CC-by/PD.
- Add: {{Sport overview}} to main articles of cue games that are real sports; medal table tags where they apply (see Ding Junhui for example).
- Insert: Cue sports events (tournament results, etc.) into the "year in sports" categories (e.g. 1965 in sports), using {{subst:Cue sports heading}} if that year doesn't have one yet.
- Change:
- Replace:
- Some day: Seek Featured Topic status.
- Plunder: the French article; it does have some interesting tidbits, structure and images. Check out de.wikipedia, etc., as well.
- Inter-wiki: Improve simple:Billiards and foreign-language key articles.

See also: Snooker to-do list

Note: To watchlist this to-do list, click on "watch" at top right of this table. Watching the page it is transcluded on won't watch the to-do list.

Shopping malls

"When the game fell out of fashion, some of these pall malls evolved into shopping precincts, hence the modern name of shopping centres in the USA: shopping malls[citation needed]; others evolved into grassed shady promenades, still called malls today."

USA Shopping malls are definitely not evolved spaces formerly used for pall mall. The United States didn't even exist until the late 18th century, when the game had already gone out of fashion. I don't think a citation is needed, I think an omission is needed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.251.26.211 (talk) 17:16, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

how silly a comment

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mall

of course the shopping mall wasn't around during the origins of pall mall, but that doesn't mean that isn't where the word is derived from. how silly.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mall —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.171.243.21 (talk) 03:24, 31 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Correct, but the text could probably use some clarification. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 20:04, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Move?

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was not moved. "Pall mall" seems to be the common name for the game. Aervanath (talk) 04:33, 12 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Pall mall (game) → Paille-maille — "Pall mall" is a corruption of the earlier spelling, and this move will also obviate the need for parenthetical disambiguation. The Pall mall DAB page will need an update after the move. Move blocked by edited redirect. — SMcCandlish (talk) 20:01, 3 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I strongly disagree. It was called Paille-maille (and many other spellings over the years) but it is now called Pall Mall. The OED lists "Paille Maille", but it just says "obsolete, see Pall Mall". 76.19.127.225 (talk) 09:34, 11 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move back to "pall mall (game)"

It has been proposed in this section that Pall-mall be renamed and moved to Pall mall (game).

A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil.

Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly.

Links: current log • target log • direct move

Paille-maille → Pall mall (game) – The result of the above move request "pall mall (game)" -> "Paille-maille" by SMcCandlish was do not move, but the following day SMcCandlish went ahead and moved it anyway. It seems clear that "pall mall" is the current English language name for this game (or at least was when it was last popular), and paille-maille is just part of its etymology (and perhaps its current name in other languages). The OED entry quoted above by 76.19.127.225 confirms this. So I propose that it be moved back. Quietbritishjim (talk) 15:22, 31 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy revert out of process move, after a failure at WP:RM. -- 65.92.181.190 (talk) 06:40, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy revert apparent out of process move, after a failure at WP:RM. -- ...though not sure about edited redirect issue above In ictu oculi (talk) 04:25, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Speedy" doesn't apply three years after the fact. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ɖ∘¿¤þ Contrib. 05:42, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as is, and it wasn't an out-of-process move. A single !vote of disagreement does not constitute a consensus against a proposal, no matter what a closing admin might say, and another admin overrode the first by responding to {{db-move}} and removing the edited redirect so the article could be moved to its current name, indicating either a) that an administrative disagreement existed over the matter that, basically, no one cares about, or b) that no one involved or uninvolved, not even me, remembered as little as a day later that there ever was an RM opened on this at all, which didn't come to a meaningful conclusion anyway. The fact that the article has been stable at paille-maille for over 3 years with no objection and no evidence of confusion or any other problems strongly suggests per WP:CCC (and the basic "if it isn't broken, don't 'fix' it" principle) that, despite the abortive RM pseudo-consensus, it should remain at this title unless substantive not procedural reasons override. "Pall mall" is one of innumerable variant spellings which appears to have arisen long after the game was extinct and is applied principally to later meanings. It is not only ambiguous, the application of this spelling to the game itself appears to be a back-formative. Meanwhile, "paille-maille" is well-attested, both in the period and in later (including modern) writing, and is not ambiguous. The OED does not magically set policy at WP:AT, and is not the only dictionary in the world, just the longest. Show me a majority of English-language dictionaries labeling "paille-maille" as obsolete, then you have a case. Re-opening this now, not in terms of the merits of name A vs. name B, but in terms of personal accusations and process nitpicking, years after the fact, and in absence of any actual problem that needs to be addressed, is a clear example of WP:LAWYER, and is a solution in search of a problem. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ɖ∘¿¤þ Contrib. 05:40, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]