Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2012 November 6
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November 6
Category:Male underwear models
- Propose merging Category:Male underwear models to Category:Male models
- Nominator's rationale: Merge. Models can and do model many different articles of clothing and are not defined by the articles themselves. Buck Winston (talk) 23:40, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
- Upmerge there is no parent category of "Models by clothing type", nor equivalent category of lingerie models at Category:Lingerie. List of male underwear models is enough. (NB some of the models are already in national subcategories of "male models" so there may need to be a bit of post-merger checking for duplicate categories.) BencherliteTalk 23:59, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
- Upmerge we have not even accepted a scheme where we seperate out people who model clothing from people who model for artists/photographers, so the models by specific clothing type is even less justified.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:54, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
Category:Gay-related television episodes
- Nominator's rationale: Merge. Another fragmentary category, splitting up a small set of articles into smaller and smaller sub-categories. There is no evidence that homosexual males were or are treated differently at the episode level than how homosexual women or bisexuals of either sex is treated at the episode level. This fails WP:CATGRS which states that gender must be relevant to the subject. It is not relevant here. Buck Winston (talk) 23:30, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
- Keep but if not then Double upmerge MaybeMaybeMaybe (talk) 06:03, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
- If you're not prepared to explain your reasoning to keep a category that you created, the closing admin is likely to look upon it as WP:JUSTAVOTE. BencherliteTalk 08:09, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
- Upmerge per nom (single upmerge only). The splitting of LGBT-television episodes into one (or in some cases, more than one) subcategory of LGBT-ness is overcategorization. So for that reason I would oppose an upmerge to the other parent, Category:Gay (male) television, also created by MaybeMaybeMaybe and seemingly intended purely as a container category for other categories that he is diffusing into the subcomponents of LBGT-ness. BencherliteTalk 08:09, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
- Delete I do not see a reason to categorize specific episodes in this manner.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:55, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
Category:Central Districts cricketers
- Propose renaming Category:Central Districts cricketers to Category:Central Districts (team) cricketers
- Nominator's rationale: The current name sounds like it refers to districts which are central (either in location or in importance); we should disambiguate it. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 11:32, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
Category:Photojournalists by country
- Propose renaming Category:Photojournalists by country to Category:Photojournalists by nationality
- Nominator's rationale: because the subcategories are photojournalists grouped by nationality, not by country/countries in which they work, and because the appropriate parent is Category:Categories by nationality (which is for people) not Category:Categories by country (which is not for people) BencherliteTalk 09:45, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
- Rename, people and culture are categorised by nationality rather than by country. – Fayenatic London 12:33, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
- Rename per nomMaybeMaybeMaybe (talk) 05:53, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
- Rename by nationality is the accepted form in such categories.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:56, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
Category:Sportspeople of multiple sports
- Propose deleting Category:Sportspeople of multiple sports - Template:Lc1
- Propose deleting Category:Sportspeople of multiple sports - Template:Lc1
- Nominator's rationale: I see no reason why being notable in more than one sport is itself any more than the sum of its parts (that is, each sport separately); even if it is, this should be a list and not a category. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 09:45, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
- Delete I've never seen the point of this category either. The indivudal sports would be on the relevant bio page, and this doesn't serve any real purpose. Plus the wording is clumsy. Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 07:55, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
- Delete this is not a notable level of categorization. It becomes overcat because we could have people in here for both swimming and water polo, which are not all that different. There are probably some cases where it could become disputed because it would not be clear whether the person was noted for more than one sport, or if their two sports were really the same sport.John Pack Lambert (talk) 18:58, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
Category:Jurist stubs
- Propose renaming Category:Jurist stubs to Category:Law biography stubs
- Nominator's rationale: A more ENGVAR-neutral name, and matches most of the child categories. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 09:29, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
Category:American musicians of Swedish descent
- Upmerge Category:American musicians of Swedish descent to Category:American musicians and Category:American people of Swedish descent
- Nominator's rationale according to Wikipedia:Categorization/Ethnicity, gender, religion and sexuality we are told "Dedicated group-subject subcategories, such as Category:LGBT writers or Category:African-American musicians, should be created only where that combination is itself recognized as a distinct and unique cultural topic in its own right. If a substantial and encyclopedic head article (not just a list) cannot be written for such a category, then the category should not be created." This category covers a trivial instersection with no scholarly study of it as such, so it should be deleted per guidelines.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:01, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
- Delete per nominator and per WP:CATGRS, unless someone has evidence in reliable sources that "American musicians of Swedish descent" are a distinct and unique cultural topic about which we could have an encyclopedic article (not just a list). --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:39, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
- BHG, you have really confused me. You have shut down and done nothing on similar discussion that went delete because we were not favoring deleting Americans by descent and the specific Americans by occupation. So are you saying we should not categorize people in Category:American people of Swedish descent and Category:American musicians, or is it possible that people say "delete" when they mean upmerge, and that your refusal to interpret previous actions in that manner was a needless push for precision in language that is not reflected in how people actually use it.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:02, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
- Double upmerge per nominator and per the same result at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2012 October 31#American musicians of Polish descent. BencherliteTalk 02:19, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
Category:Transgender-related television episodes
- Nominator's rationale: Merge. Small category with little or no growth potential. Very few individual television episodes that deal with transgenderism are independently notable. This category fragments an already small set of articles into ever smaller and smaller categories. Buck Winston (talk) 01:38, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
- Delete or upmerge per nom to Category:LGBT-related television episodes, though I find that to be a rather subjective category. Nymf hideliho! 11:55, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
- Keep or double upmerge to both parents.MaybeMaybeMaybe (talk) 00:12, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
- If you're not prepared to explain your reasoning to keep a category that you created, the closing admin is likely to look upon it as WP:JUSTAVOTE. BencherliteTalk 09:45, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
- Upmerge to Category:LGBT-related television episodes (single upmerge only). The splitting of LGBT-television episodes into one (or in some cases, more than one) subcategory of, or issue related to, LGBT-ness is overcategorization. I am uncertain about the utility of the other parent category, Category:Transgender in television, created by MaybeMaybeMaybe as well. Other people may have better views that help clarify my own. NB All of the subcategories of Category:LGBT-related television episodes, all created by MaybeMaybeMaybe have been nominated for deletion or merger, and it is a pity that he is failing to heed repeated calls to take more care when considering the appropriateness of a new category. BencherliteTalk 09:45, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
- Delete I am unconvinced that we should categorize television episodes by subject at all.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:06, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
Category:Same-sex marriage television episodes
- Propose deleting Category:Same-sex marriage television episodes - Template:Lc1
- Propose deleting Category:Same-sex marriage television episodes - Template:Lc1
- Nominator's rationale: Delete. Small category unlikely to expand, also overcategorization based on what is ultimately a trivial thing. Not every aspect of every television series needs to be categorized and all of these new categories invite category clutter and fragmentation of a small set of articles. Buck Winston (talk) 01:36, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
- Delete as per nom, or upmerge to Category:LGBT-related television episodes, though I find that to be a rather subjective category. Nymf hideliho! 11:55, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
- Keep or Double upmerge to both the parent categories so to same sex marriage in television cat as well.MaybeMaybeMaybe (talk) 21:30, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
- If you're not prepared to explain your reasoning to keep a category that you created, the closing admin is likely to look upon it as WP:JUSTAVOTE. BencherliteTalk 08:18, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
- Upmerge to Category:LGBT-related television episodes (single upmerge only). The splitting of LGBT-television episodes into one (or in some cases, more than one) subcategory of, or issue related to, LGBT-ness is overcategorization. I am uncertain about the utility of the other parent category, Category:Same-sex marriage in television, created by MaybeMaybeMaybe as well - that too strikes me as overcategorization of TV episodes by issue. If a same-sex marriage category is needed at all, I wonder whether Category:Same-sex marriage in fiction would be better. Other people may have better views that help clarify my own. BencherliteTalk 08:18, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
- Delete the overlap of television espisode and marriage type is not an established way of categorizing.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:03, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
Category:Lesbian kiss episodes
- Propose deleting Category:Lesbian kiss episodes - Template:Lc1
- Propose deleting Category:Lesbian kiss episodes - Template:Lc1
- Nominator's rationale: Delete. Overcategorization. Not every aspect of every episode of television needs a category. The existing list article Lesbian kiss episode serves nicely for anyone seeking information on the subject and includes links to each of the episodes. Buck Winston (talk) 01:32, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
- Keep as a part of a series which includes Category:Heterosexual kiss episodes, Category:Bisexual kiss episodes, Category:Gay male kiss episodes, and all the other sub-categories of Category:Kiss episodes by sexuality of the kissers. Then subcategorise into Category:Lesbians kissing straight women episodes, Category:Lesbians kissing lesbians episodes and Category:Lesbians kissing persons of unknown sexuality episodes.
Or preferably delete per nominator as trivia, which is not a defining characteristic of a TV episode. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 03:04, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
- Comment since the rest of the category structure does not exist, should we assume this is really a delete vote?John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:05, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
- Delete. BrownHairedGirl made a very good point. This categorization is getting silly and tedious. This is trivial and non-defining at best. Nymf hideliho! 06:56, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
- Delete per BHG and because there is a list already. Categorizing episodes in this way is unnecessary. BencherliteTalk 08:12, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
- Delete. The list is more than enough coverage. I agree with the previous comments. Donner60 (talk) 09:40, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
- Delete this is an overcategorization of television episode by portrayal of specific interaction. We do not have any schema that supports categorization in this way.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:04, 7 November 2012 (UTC)