User talk:Flyer22 Frozen

Welcome to my talk page. I have been editing Wikipedia since 2007. If you want to know more about me, see my user page. My work, like a lot of others, has been complimented and criticized. And in March 2012, I was even blocked. See the block cases. You can have several or various WP:GA articles and honors, and the trust of many Wikipedians, but, if some believe you have abused Wikipedia, in contrast to your and others' insistence that you have not, it hardly matters. During that time, I learned quite a lot about WP:Assume good faith and who you can count on to be there for you, and the experience has made me more acrimonious towards Wikipedia. My thinking about leaving Wikipedia and my block history remains on my talk page for those reasons. Still, I believe that it's best that I help this site, seeing as many people come here for information (it's almost always ranking highest in search engines, and that type of thing is always going to bring in a lot of readers) and a lot of those people trust what they read here. So it's my job to make sure that any topic I am heavily editing is as accurate as possible.

Any questions, compliments or criticism of my work, feel free to leave me a message here on my talk page or email me. If you leave me a message here, I will usually reply here.

The Olive Branch: A Dispute Resolution Newsletter (Issue #1)

Welcome to the first edition of The Olive Branch. This will be a place to semi-regularly update editors active in dispute resolution (DR) about some of the most important issues, advances, and challenges in the area. You were delivered this update because you are active in DR, but if you would prefer not to receive any future mailing, just add your name to this page.

In this issue:

Background: A brief overview of the DR ecosystem.
Research: The most recent DR data
Survey results: Highlights from Steven Zhang's April 2012 survey
Activity analysis: Where DR happened, broken down by the top DR forums
DR Noticeboard comparison: How the newest DR forum has progressed between May and August
Discussion update: Checking up on the Wikiquette Assistance close debate
Proposal: It's time to close the Geopolitical, ethnic, and religious conflicts noticeboard. Agree or disagree?

Read the entire first edition of The Olive Branch -->

--The Olive Branch 19:03, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Question

Hi flyer22. Do you know who this is? [1] Pass a Method talk 19:21, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You were mentioned here fyi. ~Adjwilley (talk) 21:19, 14 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Pass a Method, with the exception of these two comments,[2][3] I have an idea, but as a few people who have corresponded with me via email know, I am trying to keep away from that drama. The only times that I should be involved in any stated problems with your edits is when I choose to be involved. So far, that has only concerned an edit or edits you have made to an article or articles that I also edit. So I ask that you do not address me about this in the future.

Thanks, Adjwilley. I also replied there. Flyer22 (talk) 23:10, 14 September 2012‎ (UTC)[reply]

education

I found more links if you have any problems. MathewTownsend (talk) 20:53, 17 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Butch & Femme Relationships

another issue i'm very surprised is not in the lesbian article is the issue of butch/femme relationships. very often lesbian couples contain one partner where the woman looks and acts female and the other looks and acts like a man (dress, hair, everything). with gay male couples i very very very rarely have seen a relationship where one man looks and acts male and the other acts female and dresses in women's clothing. shouldn't there be some mention of this in the article? the reason i think it is taboo and not discussed is that the feminine women in the butch/femme relationship are actually bisexual (possibly even heterosexual) women who are choosing to be with butch masculine women due to often times past sexual abuse or various issues (often sexist anti-male feelings) with men in general. 24.193.117.138 (talk) 06:46, 28 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, IP. I responded at the talk page. Flyer22 (talk) 07:54, 28 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Brunet/Brunette = Brown.

The definition of Brunet/Brunette is wrong, as Black hair is no where near Brown. Never in public is it said that a person with Black hair is a Brunette. Implying it is wrong as it is not the right colour & saying so demonstrates you lack of colour perception. Black haired people are known as Raven haired, never Brunette. You either have Blond hair or Black hair. As these people have a very poor understanding of what Brown hair looks like. To confuse the issue on a Encyclopedic site is a wrong misuse of information, it only serves to dumb down the masses. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.186.69.50 (talk) 10:52, 28 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The sources do not state that black hair is anywhere near the color of brown. They state that "brunet" and "brunette" are terms that are used to refer to black-haired people in addition to brown-haired people. For a long time now, the terms "brunet" and "brunette" have not only been used to refer to brown-haired people. Like I told you on your talk page, "The first [source], Merriam-Webster, includes black hair by name, and the second [source] includes dark hair (which of course applies to brown or black hair; it even states 'dark or brown hair')." Refer to those two sources currently used in the article: Read here and here. There are various sources like that, and various books showing that authors use "brunette" to refer to black-haired women just as much as they use it to refer to brown-haired women. Yes, indeed many people in public refer to women with black hair as brunettes. And while black hair may not be anywhere near the color of brown, very dark brown hair is often near the color of black. In fact, it's often believed to be black, as is discussed on the Brown hair talk page. So this has nothing to do with my being wrong, my color perception, my confusing the topic, my being unencyclopedic, or my dumbing down the masses. It has to do with this being a prevalent use of the term "brunette," among the general public, dictionary definitions and scholars. Like I told you, among other things, we "go by WP:Reliable sources and WP:Verifiability here. Read the first paragraph of WP:Verifiability; that is a big part of how things work at this site." Flyer22 (talk) 16:25, 28 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Jessica Buchanan

I actually believe "Teen Jess" is a separate personality, much in the way that Victoria Lord's imitation of her father Victor in 1995 is considered a separate personality. FrickFrack 11:36, 28 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the reply, FrickFrack. We aren't supposed to go on what we personally believe about the storyline when adding information to Wikipedia, though. As you know, I asked you about that poster adding that information because I only know that Teen Jess was a result of amnesia; she was not a split personality in the sense of dissociative identity disorder, from what I saw of that storyline (meaning that I didn't watch all of it). Teen Jess is simply Jessica from a point in time in her teenage years, so it does not seem accurate to refer to her as a split personality... Well, okay, since the definition of split personality is a tiny bit broad, as even an alter ego may be referred to as a split personality, I state that we should at least not list Teen Jess in a way that our readers believe that she is a part of Jessica's dissociative identity disorder. Flyer22 (talk) 16:25, 28 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Message from Dusty relic

Hello, Flyer22 Frozen. You have new messages at Dusty relic's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Hello, Flyer22 Frozen. You have new messages at Lova Falk's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Arrow

I'll definitely check it out. It's clear from the trailers that they are reusing Smallville sets. I already saw the Daily Planet set used for Dinah's office. We'll see. I don't have high hopes for it, but it could turn out ok. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 12:20, 1 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, reading that the pilot episode was "directed by Smallville veteran David Nutter" is one thing that has me interested in the series. The others are just that it looks fun and intriguing. It doesn't seem like they'll mess up this Green Arrow tale, at least not for some seasons into the series, if at all, LOL. Flyer22 (talk) 16:39, 1 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, they are only calling him "Arrow", and they put a rule of "no powers" in the show. I'm not sure yet. I have it set to record so I can watch it. I'll know by the first few episodes if this is going to be Smallville or Gossip Girl real quick. It has the potential to be a good as Smallville was great, or simply as bad as Smallville was at certain points (ala "Magnetic"). BTW, I see that the discussion on Todd Manning just ended abruptly. Has there been further movement regarding it? BIGNOLE (Contact me) 23:04, 4 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

LOL, Smallville or Gossip Girl. I take it that you don't watch The Vampire Diaries, LOL? I watched a bit of that show (originally one of the latter seasons, then a bit of Season 1 since its best to start from the beginning with any story), but still have not gotten "into it." I did get into Teen Wolf, though. I noticed that you started editing the Arrow (TV series) article. I'll help look after it if you ever need me to. As for the Todd Manning article.... Well, I'd told that editor that I would be archiving that talk page discussion soon because there was nothing further to discuss. The final statements were on September 23rd, and it was archived on the 29th. Flyer22 (talk) 12:02, 5 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Never even tried TVD. Though, I'm a couple of seasons behind Supernatural, so I need to catch up on that. Teen Wolf has looked good in moments, and others it looks like the other trash on MTV. I haven't sat down to watch it straight, from start to finish, but I have heard good things about it. Yeah, I've tried to start editing Arrow, and I've already met resistance to anything. My first issue is with including "Story by" credits. I know some people add them, but my feeling is that you don't have to have written anything (writing notes don't count to me) to get the credit, and since the table is for "Writers" it should reflect only them. Then I mentioned that the international broadcasting section is basically a TV Guide for around the world I've received no comments about it. I'm afraid to start cleaning that up because I feel like it'll just start a new edit war. LOL. I've tried to do basic clean up around the article so far, but nothing truly major (part from removing a table that replicated information that was within eye view). BIGNOLE (Contact me) 17:07, 5 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I'm sure that The Vampire Diaries doesn't interest as many boys/men as it does girls/women. And, oooh, I definitely need to catch up on Supernatural. I caught up on it a lot on TNT, but need to get to the point where I'm up-to-date on it. Teen Wolf just really surprised me as a decent series, and, like I imply on my user page, reminds me a bit of Buffy the Vampire Slayer (which makes sense, considering that the creators' inspiration for the series is partly due to Buffy). Regarding your edits to the Arrow (TV series) article, I agree with you 100%. And thank you for correcting this, which also corrects part of my initial statement in this section above. And like I stated, I'll be there to support you on that article if you need it. Flyer22 (talk) 18:11, 5 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Start over

I would love to start over. We have a great deal in common and some of those things appear to be a willingness to discuss...at length.... LOL!...and the willingness to stop and reset. I also know you have a great deal offer in terms of knowledge and I know I can learn a great deal from you. Truce accepted and I offer an apology if anything said insulted you on a personal or professional level.--Amadscientist (talk) 23:22, 5 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, Amadscientist. I appreciate that, and apology accepted. I'm sure that there are things I could learn from you as well. That's one of the good things about Wikipedia -- learning from each other. Flyer22 (talk) 19:11, 7 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, and I of course apologize for stating anything that may have insulted you on a personal or professional level. Flyer22 (talk) 19:13, 7 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

BRD enforcer

I've drafted out the proposal at User:Betty Logan/BRD enforcer#"Request for stable state" project proposal. Hopefully I've addressed any concerns people had, and this is the version that will go before the Wikiproject proposal committee. It's been streamlined a bit to focus on operation and the name has been changed, but other than that it's doing the same job. Anyway, this is a message I'm dropping on everyone's page so they can check it out and make sure they are ok with it. Betty Logan (talk) 22:59, 7 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I see, Betty. Seems fine to me. Flyer22 (talk) 17:55, 8 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The formal proposal is up and running at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Request for stable state. If you are still interested in supporting it you will need to add your name at the official proposal. Betty Logan (talk) 02:57, 15 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

WikiWomen's Collaborative

WikiWomen Unite!

Hi Flyer22 Frozen! Women around the world who edit and contribute to Wikipedia are coming together to celebrate each other's work, support one another, and engage new women to also join in on the empowering experience of shaping the sum of all the world's knowledge - through the WikiWomen's Collaborative.

As a WikiWoman, we'd love to have you involved! You can do this by:

Liking the WikiWomen's Collaborative on Facebook and share your tips, projects, and connect with other WikiWomen
Join the conversation on our Twitter feed
Reading and writing for our blog channel

Feel free to drop by our meta page (under construction) to see how else you can participate!

Can't wait to have you involved! SarahStierch (talk) 02:11, 11 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Request for comments/opinion

Hi Flyer - I'm trying to come to a consensus at this discussion regarding the inclusion of some primetime dramas that have been called soaps/soap-like in the WP:SOAPS project. If you have a minute any opinions are greatly appreciated. Take care, Kelly Marie 0812 (talk) 02:16, 23 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for the late reply, Kelly. Seems things have been worked out there. Flyer22 (talk) 07:50, 30 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Zoophilia, Zoophilia and the law

Hello, if it is not an inconvenience, do you mind watching over and adding the Zoophilia and Zoophilia and the law articles to your watchlist? It rarely gets edited, aside from this one user who repeatedly adds unencyclopedic, non-neutral content.

The articles lack active editors and watchers, and I'm asking you because you're a good, level-headed editor who is not involved with the past issues of the two articles. Someone963852 (talk) 21:26, 29 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, Someone963852. I appreciate that you considered me to address this with, and of course appreciate the compliments. I don't use a watchlist anymore; I revealed that some time ago on this talk page and still don't use one. I simply look at my contribution history to check up on articles...because I mainly stick to the same articles these days. And by looking at my contributions, the WP:Rollback feature lets me know if someone has edited an article/talk page since I last edited it. I do all of this because Wikipedia is a very stressful/frustrating place, especially with regard to the topic areas I work in and I have too many pages watchlisted that I don't feel like un-watchlisting; I'd likely be tempted to see what mess someone has inserted into whatever article (which can end up taking more time than I want to spend on Wikipedia for any given day). I have regulated myself to focus on certain articles, and let others deal with the other topics on Wikipedia. Basically, Wikipedia is like a job to me. And the only reason I continue editing here is because I know what will happen to certain articles if I'm not here.

All that stated, I will help you keep an eye out on those articles you've listed above. I have been aware of the zoophilia issue for some time. As you know, there are those who have tried to get zoophilia listed as a sexual orientation, and Plateau99 is one of those users. I have interacted with him and reverted MarkB40n. You noted MarkB40n as a sockpuppet of Plateau99. You are very likely right, considering that Plateau99 was blocked for one month in June...and MarkB40n showed up with the same zoophilia-pushing agenda in July. Editors like Plateau99 often don't go away for long, and, now that the Plateau99 account is indefinitely blocked, he is very likely continuing to edit as MarkB40n. Simply reporting the user to an administrator won't help unless he or she blocks him per WP:DUCK or starts a WP:Sockpuppet investigation. Otherwise, you should start a WP:Sockpuppet investigation yourself.

Also, feel free to email me any time. It would be good to get your email address, since you aren't on Wikipedia all that often these days and therefore email communication is the easiest way to get a hold of you. Flyer22 (talk) 07:50, 30 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the quick reply and willingness to keep an eye out on those two articles! I'll open a sockpuppet case soon after I learn how it works. That user edits the two articles multiple times but only in a span of a day or so in a month, and adds unencyclopedic content while doing so. It is getting tiresome having to check and undo it every single month, because not enough editors are willing to look it over. Giving up now will just allow him to advance an ugly agenda, and mislead the readers with false information.

Also, I enabled the email feature on Wikipedia, so you can contact me any time. Someone963852 (talk) 21:39, 30 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Email

Don't see any email in my box from you. Maybe resend? John Carter (talk) 16:27, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe it's in your spam box? I'll send it again later since I have a copy of it by way of Wikipedia, and I'll let you know when I do. Flyer22 (talk) 01:57, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Don't keep a "spam" box for that account, actually. Weird stuff has been happening since the hurricane hit, maybe this is one of them. I'll be watching for it, but I might not be active here for the next day or so. John Carter (talk) 02:51, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I just resent it. Flyer22 (talk) 11:11, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Help with improving the All My Children and One Life to Live character pages

I was wondering since someone created the List of characters from Y&R from 1970s to 2010s, can you help me with this? Thanks! Jester66 (talk) 06:38, 11 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't create any list about the The Young and the Restless characters, Jester. But looking at List of The Young and the Restless characters (2000s) as an example, it's nice to see an American soap opera character list on Wikipedia that is generally well-sourced and encyclopedic-seeming. I emphasize "American" because some British soap opera editors, like Raintheone, have most of, if not all, of the Wikipedia British soap opera articles well taken care of; Raintheone has even taken care of various Australian soap opera Home and Away articles. I'm not too familiar with All My Children storylines from the 1970s; I'm more familiar with that show's storylines from the 1990s and 2000s/2010s.

What are you specifically looking for me to help out with on the List of All My Children characters (1970s) article? If sourcing is one issue you are looking for me to help out with, I must state that sourcing plotlines from that far back is a challenge. But the best place to start looking for sources for that time period is Google Books. Also, are you asking for help with the actual character articles, not just the lists? I've helped with some, as you may know, but have only significantly expanded ones (some of them) that pass WP:Notability....such as Bianca Montgomery and Todd Manning. If I had more time to spare, the Starr Manning article would be significantly fixed up by now. Flyer22 (talk) 18:36, 11 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I see that a little more work has been done on the Starr Manning article since I last discussed that article at Talk:Starr Manning. Flyer22 (talk) 18:44, 11 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well can you help we with the one from 1990s-2010s? Jester66 (talk) 20:27, 11 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Jester, you didn't have to change your original text above; you could have simply struck through it, which would have been better, per Wikipedia:TALK#Own comments.

As for helping you with the 1990s-2010s All My Children character lists, I will once those are created. Nothing elaborate, but occasional help. But they shouldn't be created if they aren't going to be well-sourced and of encyclopedic tone (notice that the List of The Young and the Restless characters (2000s) article is not just plot, but includes casting, portrayal and a bit of character development information as well). There are a lot of characters redirected to List of All My Children characters. Are you planning to create space for every minor character on that list? Flyer22 (talk) 03:04, 12 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

And I didn't state that I wouldn't help out with the List of All My Children characters (1970s) article; I was simply noting that I can't be much help with adding plot to that article...unless it's plot I read from a source. Flyer22 (talk) 03:15, 12 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It does not have to be EVERY minor character, just those who have made an impact to the show and was a part of storyline with major characters. And yes it will have to be well-sourced and of encyclopedic tone too. I will create the 1990s-2010s pages. Jester66 (talk) 03:28, 12 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

LOL, because you left out "not," for a second there, I thought you were saying that it does have to be every minor character (and I don't mind at all if you add "not" in by the way). Thanks for explaining. Flyer22 (talk) 03:31, 12 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I meant does not have to include every character, sorry was typing too fast. Jester66 (talk) 03:33, 12 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Jester, are you sticking with the color blue or red for the infoboxes? In the List of All My Children characters (1970s) article, Phoebe has a blue one; the other two have a red one. I'm certain that I know how that happened. You see, all of the All My Children infoboxes were red, then they (most of them anyway) were changed to blue because of what is stated in this discussion. Flyer22 (talk) 03:46, 12 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Put all of them blue. And I created the 1990s-2010 pages. Jester66 (talk) 03:54, 12 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Arre redirected the pages, looks like we have to work on them in the sandboxes. Jester66 (talk) 19:39, 12 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I looked at Arre 9's reasoning,[4][5] and Arre 9 is of course correct. I stated above that "they shouldn't be created if they aren't going to be well-sourced and of encyclopedic tone"...and I was trying to get across the point that the sourcing and encyclopedic issue should be dealt with before or soon after creation. If these lists are to exist, they should be fixed up one list at a time. You need to work on the List of All My Children characters (1970s) article first. As you know, I tweaked it a bit, but it needs more tweaking. In addition to more wording tweaks, it should have any sourced casting, character development and/or portrayal information that you can find from WP:Reliable sources. Remember that I mentioned Google Books, and remember that I stated that while I will help, it will be "nothing elaborate" and more so "occasional help." My occasional help will definitely include sourcing. Flyer22 (talk) 20:02, 12 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Messsage to you

Hi, I've left a reply to you on my talk page, regarding the pedophilia article. Regards Thomas Blomberg (talk) 17:16, 17 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

WP:TV, fictional characters and ages

Hi Flyer. I'm writing you because I see you were involved in this WP:TV discussion that formed consensus to remove age related fields from infoboxes. There is currently a discussion here at WP:SOAPS regarding (among other parameters in question) adding date of birth and date of death to the soap infobox. Soap infobox2/UK soaps includes those fields. I'm wondering if you can clarify how, if at all, the WP:TV discussion I referenced applies here. Did removing age become part of official policy or just a guideline? Also, if you have any thoughts on the parameter changes please weigh in. Thanks! Kelly Marie 0812 (talk) 01:14, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

We don't have a soap opera policy, and a guideline wasn't created for it; it was simply a matter of removing the age field from the infoboxes (which, as you know, was carried out for all television character genres) and this being the way that not having the age field was enforced. "Date of birth" and "Date of death" fields are the same as the "Age" field...in that they can be used to assert how old any character is. And as we know, soap operas often don't go by real-world age...either because of Soap Opera Rapid Aging Syndrome or de-aging. Flyer22 (talk) 03:29, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you - I guess my question is, is discussing adding the DOB etc parameters a moot point because of the consensus formed at the WP:TV project? Or is the SOAPS project free to add them if we wish? Personally I agree with the thought process behind not including them, but there are some that feel otherwise. Kelly Marie 0812 (talk) 03:34, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

My opinion has changed since then. I don't much mind at all these days that the age field isn't included for soap opera character infoboxes. But for primetime television shows and film, where the age matter isn't much of an issue, I sometimes find myself wishing that the age field was included in those instances. I suppose that WP:SOAPS is free to add them, but I feel that the wider consensus -- meaning the consensus that is still carried out by WP:TV -- trumps adding the field. Flyer22 (talk) 03:42, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. Thanks for weighing in. I wanted to make sure we weren't discussing for nothing, in case we were bound to whatever WP:TV had decided. I do believe we should do what they do, but will see what consensus ends up being. Thanks! Kelly Marie 0812 (talk) 04:34, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome. Thanks for alerting me. I most likely would not have known about the new discussion until a month or so later, seeing as I am not as actively involved in soap opera topics on or off Wikipedia as I once was. Flyer22 (talk) 04:41, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Adolescence

Hey Flyer! I hope you are doing well. Just letting you know it's me probably annoying you with the media/body image stuff over at adolescence (I always forget to log in, my bad). Just keeping it balanced a bit. I'm aware that some scholars like to make definitive statements about media/body dissatisfaction issues, but it's important to note other scholars dispute those claims too. I've kept it to the simple "scholars continue to debate..." language with the two cites, although we could probably work to broaden the discussion a bit. Would you want to do more on the "pro effects" side and I could balance it with some "no effects" scholarship? Avalongod (talk) 05:10, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Archive