Talk:Isle of Lewis

Untitled

Copy edit for WP 0.7 completed save for fact tag for "home of the poet". I can find numerous other suggestions in e.g. Haswell-Smith, Hamish (2004). The Scottish Islands. Edinburgh: Canongate. ISBN 978-1-84195-454-7. I'll come back in a couple of days and change this unless a citation can be found. Ben MacDui 08:47, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Myths and legends

This article has a "myths and legends" section. I'd like to examine this for verifiability because of some doubts about sourcing.

Here is what it looks like at present:

• The Blue Men of the Minch (also known as storm kelpies), who occupy the stretch of water between Lewis and mainland Scotland, looking for sailors to drown and stricken boats to sink.
• Kelpies were said to occupy several lochs, including one at Leurbost.
• Seonaidh - a water-spirit who had to be offered ale in the area of Teampull Mholuaidh in Ness.
• Searrach Uisge - a monster who was said to occupy Loch Suainbhal. Resembling a capsized boat, this creature has been reported swimming around for one and a half centuries. Locals say lambs were once offered annually to the creature.[37] Other such creatures have been reported in several other lochs, including Loch Urubhal.
• A family of werewolves were said to occupy an island on Loch Langavat. Although long deceased, they promised to rise if their graves were disturbed.
• Various sea monsters have been reported off the shores of Lewis over the years, including a sighting reported in 1882 by a German ship off the Butt of Lewis. The ship, 15 kilometres off the coast, reported a sea serpent around 40 metres in length, several bumps protruding from the water, along its back. Sea serpents have also been reported at the southern side of the island.
• Glowing Balls have been reported in the area of Sandwick. The lights that float around the area normally announce approaching death for a local. Some say the light belongs to an Irish merchant who was robbed and murdered on the island.

Much of this isn't a lot of use. For instance, a family of werewolves, long deceased? In what century? Which island of Loch Langavat? For this kind of tale, I'd expect to find a reference to a collection of oral history or folklore, but there is nothing of the sort. Since I began to type this section I've noticed this posting on another site which echoes my own concerns about reliability.

Much of the sourcing seems to come from a website called The Paranormal Database. I've discussed this at the reliable sources noticeboard and the consensus is that as a self-published source it's not reliable. I am removing that section from the article as of now. If reliable sources can be obtained the information can be restored. --TS 11:13, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

I've restored a sentence on Seonaidh about which we have an article and (apparently) reliable sourcing. --TS 11:20, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

I've put The Blue Men back in, linking to a book on Scottish Myth and Legend, published in 1917, as a reference. Given how well they are known (far more than Seonaidh), it's a bit disappointing to have to do that. Lianachan (talk) 13:20, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Sorry about that, but bear in mind that sassenachs and others from the great outer beyond wouldn't know a blue man from Doctor Who and his blue box. That's what reliable sources are for. --TS 13:31, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Talking of Dr Who, I have a snippet about the "Phantom of the Seven Hunters". Although referring to a ghost that reputedly inhabited (inhabits?) the Flannan Isles, it is presumably a piece of folklore from, if not specifically about, Lewis. Ben MacDui 19:41, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Name of the isle

I tweaked this but am not sure I understood correctly. Is "Heather Isle" = Lewis and Harris? Ben MacDui 19:41, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

I now notice that the Collins Encyclopaedia of Scotland thinks leodhas means "marshy" too. Ben MacDui 19:52, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

I tidied the section up a wee bit, putting the two candidate toponymy sources togther and apart from the (vastly earlier) mention by Ptolemy. Heather Isle, in my experience, is almost never used - but does tend to refer to Lewis & Harris together, yes. I'll check my placename books and sources for some consensus on the origin of Lewis. Personally, I prefer the Gaelic one - although I can see how it could have been reverse engineered quite recently from the Ptolemy reference. Lianachan (talk) 22:25, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

LOL reverse engineered? Backformed you mean - language is not a car ;) Akerbeltz (talk) 02:33, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, perfectly aware of that, thanks. The expression was chosen for it's comedic value, so I'm glad it appears to have given satisfaction. Lianachan (talk) 09:07, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Heights of the hills on Lewis

I notice that information on the heights of the hills has come from the 1911 edition of the Encyclopaedia Britannica. The list of Marilyns gives updated information for the same peaks, and appears to give the Gaelic spelling of the names:

Mealisval 574m 1883ft , Beinn Mhor 572m 1877ft [1]

At present, the wording reads:

"Compared to Harris, Lewis is relatively flat, save in the south-east, where Ben More reaches 1,874 ft (571 m), and in the south-west, where Mealasbhal at 1,885 ft (575 m) is the highest point"

Updated and with the above information this would read:

"Compared with Harris, Lewis is relatively flat, except in the south-west, where Mealisval, 574m (1,883ft), is the highest point, and in the south-east, where Beinn Mhor reaches 572m (1,877ft) "

As these figures are slightly different from that of the 1911 book it's probably better to go with the the more recent information. Michael Glass (talk) 16:42, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Ownership history

What precisely happened to the ownership of Lewis when Leverhulme died in 1925, and subsequently? The Lewis and Lever pages are not consistent. Grahamsands (talk) 13:16, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

The Lewis page is not so much inaccurate as that it fails to cover the issue. The Leverhulme page, which provides more detail is partly accurate. It say "After offering to give Lewis to its people in 1923, but being turned down and selling it onward to absentee landlords..". The story as I understand it is that Lever offered the land for free, but not as a single large unit. His idea was to split the estate up into a a dozen units (or possibly one larger unit and to give all the crofting land away - I've seen both ideas suggested). It seems crazy now but eleven of the proposals were turned down - but the crofters were by this time fairly sure of their position and may have guessed that running a country estate was potentially a recipe for losing money. The Government were asked to help but turned the idea of offering support for running costs down. The twelfth was Stornoway and Lochs - which to this day is largely owned by the Stornoway Trust. Remarkably they don't seem to have a website and what little info I have is probably out-of-date. Ben MacDui 18:59, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Disambiguation

Can I say just how completely bizarre and unexpected it is for Lewis to continue with "(Scottish Gaelic..." and be about a Scottish island? This page should be a disambig. —Felix the Cassowary 22:31, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

You can't have looked at many Scottish geopages, most of them list the Gaelic right after the English name. As for dab/no dab i think that has been debated before. Akerbeltz (talk) 00:38, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Yes, see Talk:Lewis/Archive_2#Requested_move Akerbeltz (talk) 00:39, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

Lewis → Lewis, Outer Hebrides – There is such a huge long list of things and people called Lewis, that something would have to be extremely prominent to qualify as primary topic for this name. This region in Scotland is not. In fact, it is little-known outside Scotland, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of English and Irish people hadn't heard of it. As far as the non-primary nature of this name, there are ten towns in the United States named "Lewis", Note that the general practice of including state names with US place names provides no valid argument, since it doesn't make Boston a secondary topic, does it? Anyways, with so many Lewises in the world, this page should be a disambiguation page. Ego White Tray (talk) 13:40, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

• Support No way this is a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. --BDD (talk) 17:31, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
• What about Isle of Lewis? It's the name they use on their tourist website. Kauffner (talk) 19:44, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose It is the primary topic in Scotland, and although that may carry little weight with some, a prominent argument of the previous move request at Talk:Lewis/Archive_2#Requested_move was that it was the primary topic more generally. There is no doubt that "Isle of Lewis" gets a lot of use, (although Lewis is not an island) but if it is to be moved then it should be to Lewis, Outer Hebrides per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names) and Harris, Outer Hebrides. No doubt the nominator will offer to fix the 500 plus links to the article if the move is successful. Ben MacDui 20:51, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

I suspect that quite a few of those links are not intended for this portion of an island. Ego White Tray (talk) 21:07, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Even if there are no such unintentional links, I'd fix them all myself. If the move is in accordance with WP:NC, this is a poor reason to oppose. --BDD (talk) 21:13, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

• Support I can't imagine most people think of this when they hear the name Lewis. Hot Stop (Talk) 04:46, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
• Support per nom, though Kauffner's alternate name is also fine. Disambiguation should be emplaced at this location. -- 70.24.250.26 (talk) 06:22, 27 November 2012 (UTC)