Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan/Archive/November 2012

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Translation of tomb shapes

For User:Bamse/Japanese_Imperial_tombs I'd need good translations of tomb shapes as found for instance in sub pages of this or directly in the tables at ja:天皇陵. The shapes are:

• 上円下方: jōen kahō: round-top-square-bottom type: round mound in the center and a square mound at the base, runden Steinhügel auf rechteckiger Basis!
• 前方後円: zenpō kōen: keyhole-shaped!; square-front, round-back
• 八角: hakkaku: eight-sided!
• 多宝塔: tahōtō!
• 石造五輪塔: stone gorintō!
• 石造宝篋印塔: stone hōkyōintō!
• 石造十三重塔, 石造九重塔: 13/9-storey stone pagoda!
• 円墳: enfun: circular mound, circular-typed, tumulus
• 円丘: knoll, hillock?
• 山形: mountain?
• 方丘: square!
• 方形: square-typed
• 八角丘: eight-sided hill / octagon hill
• 円形: round (again)?
• 方形堂: square temple / square hall?

Any suggestions are appreciated. bamse (talk) 22:53, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

See Kofun, [1], and [2]. Oda Mari (talk) 07:56, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. bamse (talk) 19:53, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Did you see this page? Looking at the image of this page, it's definitely Tahōtō. Oda Mari (talk) 08:35, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. Indeed that looks like a tahōtō. bamse (talk) 20:56, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

I've made some suggestions above. I, Jethrobot ^{drop me a line} (note: not a bot!) 22:21, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Tomb (again) names

Sorry for another question on Imperial tombs. Are the tomb names such as unebiyama no hitsujisaru no mihodo no i no e no misasagi (畝傍山西南御陰井上陵) translatable or should they just be left in romaji? I noticed some unusual (at least to me) readings there. Also several names end in no e no misasagi (上陵). I found that 上 can also refer to the emperor. Wouldn't that be doubled then as 上陵 = Emperor's Imperial tomb? bamse (talk) 22:48, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

I think the name can be divided like this 畝傍山/西南/御陰/井上/陵 (unebiyama no/hitsujisaru no/mihodo no/ino eno/misasagi). Unebiyama no is Mount unebi's. Hitsujisaru no is the direction sheep/saru (southwest). Mihodo no is shadowy, ino eno is above the well and misasagi/tomb. Oda Mari (talk) 08:56, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

I think it is 畝傍山/西南/御陰井/上陵. 御陰井 is a place name, see ja:ほと#有名な事例. As for the first question, I think the name should be left in romaji. An English translation can be added to the name like Imperial tomb at mihodo no i in south west of unebiyama. I don't know whether上陵 can be combined to mean Imperial tomb, but it is likely.

As for the unusual readings Hitsujisaru(西南), see Earthly Branches#Directions. ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 09:25, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Sorry,bamse. Phoenix7777 is right. Oda Mari (talk) 17:12, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

I was not necessarily wrong. There was a well. See the 6th image from the top and see this. Oda Mari (talk) 17:43, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps these places should be added to Wikipedia:WikiProject Japan/Place names with unusual readings if they aren't already there? ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 16:11, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks a lot. It seems more complicated than I thought. Perhaps for the time being I stay with romaji (and kanji) only, which is also what I have seen commonly used in sources and wikipedia articles. bamse (talk) 20:58, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

• I wonder if anybody uses Template:Japanese script needed?   LittleBen (talk) 09:39, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Not sure I understand your question or how it relates to this topic, but apparently this template is being used. bamse (talk) 20:17, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks, it's not very clear how to find such templates, and Template:Japanese is not very well documented—it doesn't explain that to display the template you add {{Japanese}} as is described at the top of the category that you mention. LittleBen (talk) 02:31, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

{{Japanese}} redirects to {{Japanese script needed}}, i.e. the two are basically the same and you could add either {{Japanese}} or {{Japanese script needed}} with the same effect. This usage of templates is very standard for wikipedia templates, so not sure that it needs to be documented in detail in the template documentation. There are some help pages for using templates at Help:Template and Help:A quick guide to templates which might interest you. bamse (talk) 16:12, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks. A description of how to use the template, and what it does, has just been added. Will have to read up on templates, they seem to be generally poorly documented. LittleBen (talk) 20:46, 7 November 2012 (UTC)