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Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2012 November 26

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Bearcat (talk | contribs) at 17:19, 28 November 2012 (Category:Media by country). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

November 26

toponyms by language

Nominator's rationale: Delete. These are not articles on various languages' toponymy- they are a collection of articles on places in the country, region, state, province, etc. where the languages are spoken, and a slew of disambiguation pages. As discussed previously with Norwegian toponyms (see Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2012_November_13#Category:Norwegian_toponyms, there are schemes for categorizing places by where they are located, and even for articles on place name etymologies (such as the first article in the Austro-Bavarian category, and others of like flavor, (see Category:Etymologies of geographic names). As explained on the first nom (Norwegian toponyms), numerous other cats to follow. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 19:12, 26 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Toponymy is a topic of linguistics, unfortunately the vast majority of the articles here are about cities, towns, or (ahem) disambiguation pages! We have a schema for naming of geographic places (toponymy), which in WP parlance is "Etymologies of geographic names"; see the category I cite above. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 07:12, 28 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment To some extent these lead to false categorization as well. For example in Category:Slovak toponyms we get Banka, yet the first meaning of Banka is a palce in India which has no Slovak meaning. Another reason to delete these categories is they border on categorizing things by similar name, which we do not do. We categorize things by the characteristic of what they are, not by what their name is.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:47, 28 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Reformed Christians

Nominator's rationale: According to Category:Calvinism, Reformed is synonymous with of Calvinism, so Reformed Christians is synonymous with Calvinists, which already exists as a category. JFHutson (talk) 15:47, 26 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Gu of Seoul

Nominator's rationale: Evidently redundant. cf. Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2012_November_2#Category:Gangnam-guJustin (koavf)TCM 07:10, 26 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Media by country

Nominator's rationale: Rename. Like the main articles, e.g. Media of Afghanistan, Media of Angola. Avoid ambiguity for French media and German media, where it could refer to the language. ChemTerm (talk) 00:55, 26 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support removes ambiguity as to whether this is media of the country, or of expatriate communities elsewhere, or of ethnic media for Albanians, or of "American" meaning not the USA, but all the Americas. -- 70.24.250.26 (talk) 07:18, 26 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose attempt to turn a nationality-based system into a country-based one. Cultural topics are, by their very nature, best dealt with in terms of their national context. --Mais oui! (talk) 04:52, 27 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • These five categories are not special or unique cases — you need to either propose a mass renaming of all the subcategories in Category:Media by country or leave them alone, because these five are not subject to different naming considerations than the rest of them are. Oppose as constituted, but that doesn't necessarily mean I'd oppose a more comprehensive nomination. Also, incidentally, I note that you've spent part of today splitting media-by-nationality and media-by-country into separate trees consistent with this nomination, even while this discussion is still open — you need to let the CFD process run its course, and are not permitted to jump the gun in advance of the consensus being established. Bearcat (talk) 19:54, 27 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename the reason given are sound. The "nominate the whole tree" demand just does not make sense. That takes way too much time and effort, so begining with this section makes sense.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:10, 28 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The user's process so far has been to nominate a small handful of categories as if they were isolated cases that were somehow subject to different concerns than all of the others, and then to arbitrarily create the new categories without waiting for CFD consensus in a few other cases — which he would then use to selectively recategorize a random portion of the existing category's content so that "Nationality media" and "Media of country" were no longer functioning as one category whose name was under debate, but as two separate categories serving distinct purposes — and to simply ignore the majority of sibling categories that are actually subject to the same concerns as the ones he's been choosing to single out for special treatment. He hasn't been asking for "test cases" in pursuit of a comprehensive change to a tree's naming convention — he's been singling out random "special cases" to be renamed in isolation from other sibling categories.
That it takes "time and effort" to put together a comprehensive batch nomination is not an excuse for lazy half measures or for arbitrarily doing an end run around Wikipedia process. For one thing, even if there is a consensus established to apply this discussion as a precedent for renaming the rest of the tree, then this discussion will have opened and closed without most of the affected categories ever having been tagged as being under consideration — meaning that the renaming would sneak in under most people's radar, since they never had any opportunity to learn that this discussion was happening in the first place or any opportunity to comment on it. It takes "time and effort" to have to restage the same discussion over and over again on five or ten or twenty individual batches of five, too. Bearcat (talk) 16:31, 28 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Society by country

Nominator's rationale: Rename. 90% of the subcategories use "of/in" Afghanistan. These are clear "by country"-categories. ChemTerm (talk) 00:25, 26 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]