Talk:Walt Disney

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This article is clearly unbalanced, there is a lot more to Walt Disney than 'his legacy' or Mickey Mouse. He created a segment of an industry that profits from selling to children, and very acutely targeted selling at that. This should be discussed in much greater detail. His impact on American society is greatly understated, or at least, it is cast in the best possible light. Who wrote this article? It is partisan!

Infomercial?

H

The tone of this page seems wrong. It's a bit like a Disney infomercial. Also, the first paragraph seems to assume that the reader already knows who Walt Disney is, and I think that's an incorrect assumption in an encyclopedia. --Pinkunicorn

Agreed. Not in any position to do anything about it though. :-(. --drj

besides being gracious to Disney, it also violates being unfinished to let others add. I'd like to add a few things, but its gonna be hella hard without rewriting.

Factually however, very informative. Alan D

I've taken out the worst and most sugary sentences, corrected a few myths and I think the addition to the first sentence livens it up. TwoOneTwo

I can't say that the new first sentence makes it any better. You still have the same problem as before of assuming I know stuff that I don't. Even if it is correct, I think the first paragraph should be something more informative than that. As long as the first sentence doesn't mention cartoons, it seems weird to me. --Pinkunicorn

I think your comment, "union-busting communist-hating untalented artist," whatever its degree of accuracy, was in extremely poor taste, not to mention contrary to the neutral point of view. All the facts you wish to convey can be fairly conveyed--without engaging in partisan propaganda. I'm fully willing to admit that the article in its original form was probably a bit non-neutral, looking at it again. But I think it's really important that we don't go so far in the opposite direction. --Larry Sanger

Why poor taste? True is true, even it rather baldly put.

Buena Vista was formed in 1953 (and put out its first film in November 1953), yet in the article there is a piece which suggests it came about in the late 1920s-early 1930s - what distribution company was this?

I've tried to take out some of the sugar, but it still needs a considerable cleanup. Whomever keeps writing from a fan's perspective, please go read about the neutral point of view. Disney did some great things, but his commercial, artistic (and possibly personal) track record had a number of blots in it, and they should be acknowledged. --Robert Merkel

Someone screwed up the format of this article with some careless editing and hence rendered the revision diff quite unreadable. In the chaos, the information I added about Fairyland in Oakland California was removed. I believe it is relevant information because if Fairyland was a storybook theme park which Disneyland based on, then Disneyland cannot be claimed as the first theme park!!! See the history at http://www.fairyland.org .

who took out: When Charles Mintz raided Disney's animation studio and stole the rights to their character Oswald the Rabbit, Ub was the only associate to remain with ... etc. Cause that part seemed rather important...

Anton Pieck's theme park De Efteling in the Netherlands was built in 1952 and according to [1] (Dutch), Walt Disney even visited it regularly to get inspiration for his theme park.

Of course, I am not entirely sure what, say, the difference is between a theme park and an amusement park. Perhaps somebody could write the definitions for several such entries, so that we can make a more valid decision on which was first.--user:Branko

OK, that source about Disney visiting the Efteling has it wrong, according to [2] (also Dutch). This new source says that it is an urban legend that Disney visited the Efteling, which may have come into existance because an Efteling director said that Disney may have been in the Efteling once on his European travels, in which he checked out European amusement parks. Comment by AJS, a recent visitor to Efteling. It is obvious to me that "Pirates of the Caribbean" and "Small World" were both strongly influenced by 2 attractions at Efteling.

The same article says that Disney was impressed with Tivoli in Copenhagen and also named Madurodam in The Hague. The article even quotes former Disney CEO Michael Eisner on this.

The article even states that Disney's park was by no means the first of its kind in the world, but does not give any further evidence for this: the author clearly assumes this fact to be a given.--user:Branko

There is no evidence that Walt Disney ever went to de Efteling. I believe that the two attractions which are similar to "Pirates of the Caribbean" and "it's a small world" -- "Fata Morgana" and "Carnival Festival" respectively -- were influenced by the Disneyland rides, not the other way around. ridetheory

Did disney animate any of his own cartoons after he formed his own company? steamboat willy was done by Iwerks. I don't know, butI don't think he animated ANY of them... --alan D

He stoped acting as animator on 1924.But he did animate one more film."The Skeleton Dance"-1929, the first of the Silly Symphonies.

I don't think that's correct. Skeleton Dance was almost entirely the work of Ub Iwerks, suggested by an idea by composer Carl Stalling. Walt only directed one cartoon in later years, "The Midas Touch," (sorry, can't remember the year -- mid 1930s it must have been). It was so badly received by audiences that he never directed again. ridetheory

I moved the copyright issues to Walt Disney Company. Walt died 30 years ago, and it current copyright issues probably belong in an article about his company rather than on an article about him. Also a lot of this article needs to get refactored. Details on EPCOT and Walt Disney World probably should go there.

I propose breaking up the article into Walt Disney, the man who founded the enterprise -- and Disney, the corporation which owns ABC, Touchstone, Mirimax, etc. I daresay the company has taken on a life of its own, with Michael Eisner at the helm, in the years the death of the company's founder. --Ed Poor

Nazi?

This is less to do with the article and more a point of information... I've heard some places that Disney was a Nazi sympathizer. I knew he was a rabid anti-Communist, but that was a bit new to me, so I came here to see if I could get clarification and found none... so anyone know? Nazi-sympathizer? Perhaps he was one of those "we shouldn't have stopped in Germany" types after WW2, or even one of the ones who thought we outta be fighting the Soviets instead of the Nazis. Anyone?

If he was, he never showed it. The studio made a plethora of anti-Nazi propaganda during World War II, although much of it was, in fact, goverment and/or militarily mandated. --b. Touch 04:31, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

It seems unlikely. He seems as a person with many bad traits, but I don't believe he was a Nazi. Where are your sources?

I've done a ton of research of the man in my lifetime, and I can assure you he was not a Nazi sympathizer. Government mandated or not, Walt would NEVER allow anything to leave the studio he didn't personally believe in. In fact, he made a wartime feature "Victory Through Air Power" despite the fact it offended many of the military overseers at the time. (Because of its advocacy of the Air Force over the Navy to win WW2.) He still made it because he believed in it.

He hated communism for the same reason he hated Nazism, because they are both totalirism systems that stamp over human rights. Not only that, but many leftist communist sympathizers had it out for him and printed deliberate lies in their publications. He didn't "hate' unions, he just didn't care for them because of his personal experiences with them. He had nothing against his employees organizing, but when they did they pretty much acted like scum.

Also, despite what some have said, Walt WAS a talented animator. I've seen many of his early work, including the Laugh-O-Grams and his early fairy tale parodies and they are quite well drawn. He stopped animating because he realised his best talents lay elsewhere, and there were better animators within the studio. Therefore, his raw talent never developed.

And why the insistence to point out every ones "flaws?" I guess it's just more of the modern sickness for destroying heroes and hammering on supposed flaws (no matter how minor) in the name of "balance." Next, articles on Jesus will be challenged because they don't point up his "negative personal traits."

Neutrality is the hobgoblin of little minds.

Leave the sugar in!

I guess it's more YOUR sickness that considers being a Nazi a "minor flaw!"

Oh yes, people want to give information about Disney in an encyclopedia entry about him because they hate American heroes. And what's this BS about hating communists because they were "out to get him?" He hated them because he paid his animaters substandard wages, and they would sometimes strike, among other reasons.

According to http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mdisneyfascist.html, "Disney animator Art Babbitt claimed his boss had a strong interest in, if not outright sympathy for, the [Geerman-American] Bund [which would later become the American Nazi Party]." Babbitt claimed that "In the immediate years before we entered the War there was a small, but fiercely loyal, I suppose legal, following of the Nazi party . . . There were open meetings, anybody could attend and I wanted to see what was going on myself. On more than one occasion I observed Walt Disney and [Disney's lawyer] Gunther Lessing there, along with a lot of prominent Nazi-afflicted Hollywood personalities. Disney was going to meetings all the time."

Snow White - the first?

This article states that "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, released in 1937, was Disney's and the world's first feature-length animated film." But the article on animation history says that "The first animated feature-length film was El Apóstol (1917)". There is an error somewhere. My guess is that Snow White was the first American feature-length animated film. Are there anybody who can clarify this and make the appropriate changes? (OuroborosSlayer)

It's not even the first American one. Max Fleischer made some educational features in the 1920s that were around 50% animated. "First American animated feature film in full color" is correct. I will change it. --b. Touch 22:34, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Animator?

Shouldn't the statement that Disney was an "animator" be removed?

He was an animator until 1924. --b. Touch 18:10, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Cleanup request and accuracy concerns

This article needs a SERIOUS rewrite. Besides being factually incorrect in a number of places, its prose is not encyclopediaic at all, and it also needs to be compacted.

What needs to be done is to create an article for the Walt Disney animation studio and reverse merge the bulk of that part of this article into that article (and also integrate what is now at Walt Disney Feature Animation and set up a redirect), and to make sure this article is primarily about Walt Disney the person, and not the studio, because trying to cover both in one article makes for, as exists now, something truly unwieldy.

I am presently starting on both articles now. We can work on them here until they are both completed, because it will take a while to complete both.:

--b. Touch 18:38, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Mickey Rooney

I removed this:

The name itself came from an occasion when a young Mickey Rooney walked into Disney's office whilst on a visit; Disney showed Rooney some pictures of Mortimer Mouse (as he was called at the time), and it occurred to him that the name Mickey would have a better ring to it.

...because it's not true. When Mickey Mouse was created in early 1928, Mickey Rooney wasn't even "Mickey Rooney": he was Joe Yule, Jr. playing "Mickey McGuire" in the Mickey McGuire series. Rooney's claim of Walt naming Mickey is only supported by his words: pratically every book written on Walt Disney and/or Mickey Mouse identifies Lillian as the one who came up with the name "Mickey".

A Google search finds this article, which makes the supposition obviously false, as Walt didn't work at Warner Bros..

--b. Touch 00:41, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Question

can we say Walter Elias "Walt" Disney instead of Walter Elias Disney, commonly known as Walt Disney? --b. Touch 20:00, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

List of shorts

I removed the list of shorts from this article. This information is still available in the history, and should be included in a list of Disney animated shorts, which is a somewhat necessary article. --b. Touch 02:12, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)

List of Disney animated features

There is no reason to place a link to the List of Disney animated features at the top of this page. Stop doing this. --b. Touch 04:16, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

famious

Ethnicity of Disney

Got a question for the Disney experts (as in the man, not the company) here. I've got another article here on Wikipedia that claims that Walt Disney was of Hispanic descent. Can anyone confirm or deny this for me so I can resolve this? As far as I know, he's roughly of Irish liniage. Thanks.--Mitsukai 17:06, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

According to Bob Thomas's Walt Disney: An American Original, Disney's ancestors were French, who moved to England about 900 years ago. The name Disney comes from the French town, Isigny-sur-Mer, which became d'Isigny, and was then Anglicised to Disney. The family moved to Ireland, and in 1834 Arundel Elias Disney and his brother Robert sailed from Liverpool with their families to America. Elias's son Keppel had a son called Elias also, who became the father to Walter Elias Disney. Thats the best I can do.--Speedway 18:17, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

More than enough. Near as I can tell, the Hispanic reference comes from his mother (Flora Call)'s side, but I can't confirm if she was of Hispanic lineage or not. I think there's enough doubt about it, however, that I can safely remove it. Thanks again.--Mitsukai 18:50, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

That's based on old rumors that Walt and Roy Disney were either born in Spain and adopted by the Disneys, or that they were the children of Elias Disney and the family maid (!). Both are untrue, as far as we know. --FuriousFreddy 00:45, 8 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Urban legends

I think this part should be removed, for several reasons:

They are only legends.

it is most probably a copyvio, copied from www.snopes.com

A link to www.snopes.com would be enough, in the external links section.

Please comment here - if most agree, I'll remove the Lengend section in a week or so, unless someone else does it first.

--Janke | Talk 20:03, 6 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I agree—a debunking of the cryogenics myth and a link to Snopes should be sufficient. tregoweth 19:39, August 7, 2005 (UTC)

Hmm...a lot of people would expect ot see them here...although, at the same time, they are a bit superfluous. I say tackle three of the big ones (the cryogenics one in particular) and refer the reader to a Snopes link for the rest. --FuriousFreddy 00:43, 8 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

How about this:

We remove the subcategory completely, and put it in the "Trivia" section, like this:

A number of rumors have been attributed to Walt Disney:

"Walt Disney was an illegitimate child."

"Walt Disney received a dishonorable discharge from the military during World War I."

"Disney had his body frozen and became a cryonics patient after his death."

These are all untrue. Widely spread and retold, they have become urban legends.

If there's no strong opposition, I'll do it. --Janke | Talk 07:56, 8 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

PS. Should the snopes link go to the entire Disney legends index, or just to Wal'ts personal index? --Janke | Talk 08:31, 8 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

OK, since no-one opposed, I'll cut down the legends stuff, and put it in trivia. --Janke | Talk 06:36, 12 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Urban legends tend to grow... again!

Let's keep down the Urban legends to just a few, please. (And only to those available/"confirmable" at the Snopes sites.) Otherwise this section may again grow uncontrollably. Thanks! --Janke | Talk 06:44, 25 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Cricket?

Anybody else heard Walt was a cricket fan? An anon. poster insists on re-inserting this in trivia. Trivia should be closely watched IMHO - too much fluff, as it is. It could grow uncontrollably. --Janke | Talk 06:08:10, 2005-08-28 (UTC)

This is a small tidbit about Walt that I came across. Quite a few Americans tend to forget that people in America for a good period of time played cricket more than they played baseball. It just so happens that Walt was one of those who enjoyed cricket. It isn't that exciting, that's why it's trivia... but important trivia to anyone who likes cricket and find it interesting that Walt was a follower (and Wikipedia has a big cricket portal). I've added a Internet reference, but I'm sure if you're not satisfied you can find others - if you delete it again I'll register :) -- Anonymous 18:48:00, 2005-08-28 (AEST)

Walt Disney and cricket

The reference you provided appears to be a trivia list about a cricket player. I can't accept this as a reference about Walt Disney. Please furnish something better, thanks! And yes, it would be a good idea to register. Then we could discuss this on our talk pages. --Janke | Talk 15:25:52, 2005-08-28 (UTC)

I have removed the cricket entry again. You had earlier also inserted "although Walt was said to have mentioned Donald Duck in 1931, it may have been that Walt had named Donald Duck in anticipation of Bradman scoring a duck." - this nonsense made me seriously doubt the entire cricket entry. Google gives only two references for Disney and the Hollywood cricket Club, and both are trivia pages about a player named Donald Bradman. Not trustworthy about Disney. Disney played polo--Janke | Talk 05:51:04, 2005-08-29 (UTC).

No-one suggested Walt *played* cricket - he was a member of the Hollywood Cricket Club, not a player. I'll go away and find book references if a URL isn't good enough for you, and I'll register another time - and just because something is incredible doesn't necessarily make it nonsense, thankyou! -- Anonymous 21:34 AEST

Yes please, a book reference would be good. If you find one, I won't oppose inserting cricket into Walt's list of hobbies. But you have to admit it sounds nonsensical that Walt named Donald Duck anticipating something that might happen in the future? That's how I read your entry - and that's what I opposed. I found this on the web, at [3]:

... all sorts of stories coming out of the woodwork about Don Bradman now that
he is dead. The best was in a newspaper here in Tassie which said that
Donald Duck was named for the fact that in an exhibition match in the USA
Don Bradman scored a duck.!!!!! Apparently not realising that Donald Duck is
a bloody duck.!!!!! I mean if that's not drawing a rather long bow, I don't
know what is. You can bet there will be a lot more stories yet.

The answer to that post was:

I'm not sure if you are serious? ...... Or joking? ......

And yes, please, do register. I can't send these messages straight to you, since your IP address keeps changing. --Janke | Talk 13:14:41, 2005-08-29 (UTC)

The tone of some of this entry is very creepy

From the "Testimony before Congress" section:

Walt Disney testified before the House Un-American Activities Committee, and he named several of his employees as Communist sympathizers... Despite his motivations, the fact remains that several of Disney's employees were said to be Communist sympathizers."

WHAT??

Unless you happen to be an iron-fisted Stalinist dictator, you simply cannot justify a witch-hunt like this by claiming "the fact remains that rumours existed."

This whole page desperately needs a rewrite, preferably this time by someone who is not in the employ of this disney corporation. (Anon IP address)

I removed the last "creepy" sentence. "...were said to" doesn't prove it. The fact of the testimony itself is well documented, so let's leave that... --Janke | Talk 14:26, 14 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

- I've now read the entire testimony, Walt only named one employee, David Hilberman, a communist. The other people named in the testimony were union bosses. --Janke | Talk 20:10, 1 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Trivia

Should we cut down on this? It's more than a screenful now? BTW, Disney as informant - is that documented anywhere else than in "Dark Prince"? If not, it might be removed, too. --Janke | Talk 17:08, 4 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

High school?

Did Walt Disney graduate from high school or not? This article claims he did, but a Google search turns up countless articles saying he didn't; they say he only attended one year of high school, then left. One site does say he eventually received an honorary diploma from his high school—at age 58. What's the truth? Does he go in Category:High school dropouts or not? -Silence 08:35, 30 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I found he that he didn't graduate high school either because he joined the Red Cross so he can serve in WWI. He lied about his age.- User:Azn_Clayjar 21 March 2006

Characters by Walt Disney

Mickey Mouse is a happy mouse who is inlove with Minnie Mouse. Mickey wears red trousers with yellow buttons. He also has white shoes and white gloves. His eyes are big and he is a very famous character that Walt Disney created. This was not what Mickey mouse was like first though. He was actually going to be called Mortemor Mouse, and be a droopy, sarcastic mouse. Not at all like Mickey. It was Walt Disney's wife that suggested a happier younger mouse, who should be called Mickey.

Minnie Mouse is Mickey Mouse's love. She wears high heels, a yellow hat with a flower, and a polka-dotted dress. She to, like Mickey, wears White Gloves.

Goofy Goof is a dog. He is a friend of Mickey. He has a girlfriend who is a cow. He is not as bright as Mickey. Goofy has one son- Max Goof.

Donald Duck is a white duck. He wears a blue sailors suit with white buttons. He is a jealous and proud one who always likes to win or take things without working for them. He has the most rellatives, for he has three nephwes and is related to Mr. Scrooge (a very rich duck). Donald usually gets into the most trouble.

Pluto is Mickey's dog. His body is orange and his tail is black. He has had problems from little critters to sweaters.

Daisy Duck is Donald Duck's love. Minnie and Daisy are best friends just like Donald and Mickey. Daisy has a sweet, loving nature not so much like Donald.She has 3 nieces April, May and June Duck who are all girlfriends to Huey, Dewey and Louie Duck( Donald's cousins). Pete is Mickey's arch-enemy and is always trying to make things harder for Mickey.

Flip the Frog newspaper clipping

Doesn't this better belong in the Ub Iwerks article, rather than here? It's been on and off for some time now. Consensus? --Janke | Talk 21:03, 9 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's important to point out that Mickey Mouse and Oswald the Rabbit were the creation of Ub Iwerks, since the vast majority of people still believe in was Walt Disney who, in reality, could not draw. (comment by anon IP)

- That's a popular misconception - Disney could draw! He drew many of the Laugh-O-grams himself, and if you look at them today, they're as good as anything from that time, i.e. early 20s. However, Iwerks and others drew better, and that's the reason Disney stopped drawing himself. Furthermore, I was referring ONLY to the image, not to the text! This article is about Disney, and while it indeed is very important to mention Iwerks in context, the major info about him (especially pictures), should be in the Iwerks article. --Janke | Talk 10:05, 11 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Both Walt and Ub contributed to the creation of Mickey. I edited the text to confirm with most biographies, and uploaded a screenshot of The Steamboat Willie title card. -- Janke | Talk 08:08, 20 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Chicago Arts Institute?

This doesn't make sense! He moved to Kansas City… and still attended the Chicago Arts Institute? One hell of a commute, wouldn't you say? —Mproud 10:15, 23 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

When did father die?

This article says Elias Disney died when he was 37 and Walt was seven. The article on Elias Disney says he he was born in 1859 (so he would have been 37 before Walt was even born) and died in 1941. OK, which is it?

Anti-semitic

I was wondering...was Walt Disney anti-semitic? I've heard that it was pretty well known that he hated Jews and that may have sponsored the rumour that he had Nazi-sympathies. It may be untrue that if one is anti-semetic, they are also Nazi's, but was he even anti-semitic?

Is this something worth adding to the bio...because Disney corp. is a powerful company and i doubt they want rumours on his bio...that..and well...if it's true...I'm sure they'd rather not have it up here...and we all know what that means....more sabotage of wikipedia.

I also heard that he was extremely prejudiced against blacks, and refused to hire any for as long as he ran Disney studios. Can anyone verify if this is true?--Paradigm 15:51, 7 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Auteur

Is Walt Disney considered an Auteur? I know he isn't a director, but producers can auteurs too, like George Lucas, David O. Szelsnik (sp) and Jerry Bruckheimer. Someone with more expertise should put this in the article if he is an auteur. Karatloz 16:44, 6 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

HUAC - Tone

Yes I agree that the tone is 'creepy'.

"His dislike and distrust of unions may have also led to his testimony, although like many in Hollywood who "named names", Disney may have been motivated by simple fear, either of Communist power in Hollywood, or of being blacklisted."

-Can euphemizing or whitewashing be considered a non-NPOV?

List of Walt Disney analogues in fiction?

Is there room somewhere in this article, or in a separate article, for a list of fictional characters based on Walt Disney? I can think of a few, but I'm sure there are many of them out there. Kaijan 00:32, 18 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

hello.I love Dopey!!!

Spanish

Walt Disney was born in Spain, no matter your yankee nationalism want to believe. I corrected this page, was no vandalism. If I miss any rule, i apologise, i'm new around here.