Talk:Nigger

Greater prominence for 'nigga' topic?

First I'd like to say I'm quite pleased with how effectively this topic is addressed, both here and in the 'nigga' article. While I agree with the consensus against merging the two (above), I wonder whether anyone would agree that the link to the 'nigga' page demands a numerous place of prominence here, possibly in the introduction? The 'nigga' term is obviously, a now-popular derivative of 'nigger', and I would disagree that it has at least as much significance in modern society, due if nothing else to it's pervasive use in rap music and the significant position that genre occupies. Though I don't off-hand know of any surveys of the term's ubiquity in modern popular music, I would imagine documentation of that fact could be provided, even if through links to lyrics of many of the top-charting songs of the past couple decades — though I suspect such an approach might be considered original research? Any thoughts on this? Walkersam (talk) 11:38, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

N-word

I'm old enough to know the term "N-word" way predates the OJ Simpson trial. There's no citation in the article. 216.232.242.7 (talk) 00:03, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Seriously?

"Contemporaneously black Americans use the word nigger, often spelled in eye dialect as nigga and niggah, without irony, to either neutral effect or as a sign of solidarity.[11]"

I'm sorry but I certainly agree with a previous entry that this entire thing is quite obviously written by white Americans with an agenda to frame this word in a way that is convenient. It's sad unfortunately that some people actually come to Wikipedia looking for truly objective information and this article is not even close. Do you seriously think as a Caucasian you can state that black Americans use the word nigger as nigga or niggah? Who told you this? How many African Americans did you interview in preparation for that statement? This is sickening and disgusting how you seek to legitimize this racism in the manner which you have decided to employ.

I Motion that the title of this article be changed to "The Word Nigger As Understood And Expressed By Caucasians"

This is disgusting 76.110.24.103(talk)

Ok genius, read this link, FROM THE ARTICLE, written by , yes, a black man. http://www.arthurkspears.com/papers/n-word.pdf

Asher196 (talk) 17:45, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

oh well that solves it! Especially since it's written by a black man. I wish someone had explained that to me and my family and friends long ago. Maybe, had we known this, we'd have acted and spoken accordingly. The point is Mr. Brain, it's a generalization and had it been written to implicate as such, it would be taken as such, but I assure you that the use of the word "nigger", "nigga", or "niggah", is not used and has never been used in many African American circles. I could go, but then what would be the point? 03:51, 14 February 2011 User:76.110.24.103

The point is, you were going off on a rant about how this article is written by white people who don't know what they are talking about, when in fact you really have NO IDEA who is contributing to this article. I actually agree with what you are saying, but if you disagree with the sourced content in the article, then add sourced content to the article that backs up what you are saying. I'm not saying your are right or wrong, just that we can't add whatever we want here. Content has to be backed up by WP:RS. Other than that, there is nothing stopping YOU from contributing to, or changing this article.Asher196 (talk) 14:46, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

This is not a fourm for you to vent about the article and make unfounded/irrelevant accusations. If you have a problem with the article please present it constructively. Making accusations that this was written only by caucasians will get you no where. This specific reference is cited. You have not presented anything that is cited. If you are going to contradict something back it up. 98.127.120.45 (talk) 22:39, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

I see no basis for disputing that the word "nigga(h) is used by many blacks. There are referances to its use and its actual use in movies, standup monologues and anyone with an open ear can hear it frequently used in predominantly black communities. A dispute of this kind is as silly as disputing that many people use the word "dude".98.164.91.184 (talk) 02:04, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Barbara, that makes no sense whatsoever.--Asher196 (talk) 15:46, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

I know, I just wanted to add to the stupidity. BarbaraMervin (talk) 18:18, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

intent?

I find this passage odd:

British English, nigger is now a derogatory and racist word. However, earlier, together with the original form of negro, the word was used without derogatory intent. For example, Victorian writer Rudyard Kipling used it in 'How the Leopard Got His Spots' and 'A Counting-Out Song' to illustrate the usage of the day. Likewise, P. G. Wodehouse used the phrase “Nigger minstrels” in Thank You, Jeeves (1934), the first Jeeves–Bertie novel, in admiration of their artistry and musical tradition. As recently as the 1950s, it was acceptable British usage to say niggers when referring to black people, notable in mainstream usages such as Nigger Boy–brand

First, the exampls provided do not illustrate intent, they only illustrate that the usage was common. Common usage implies nothing about intent. In fact, I am not so sure that intent is the issue. What makes the word offensive was the fact that Whites could address Blacks using this word, directly, when Blacks could not use equivalent words to directly address Whites. This is a perfect illustration of a racist situation. The person using the word does not have to personally intend to insult another individual. Racism is about collective inequalities, not personal insults. I understand the words can b used with conscious intent as a personal insult. I am just saying that what makes this so different from other personal insults is the way the term operated in the context of major inequalities between blacks and whites. Slrubenstein | Talk 18:14, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

It is not for us to interpret how Kipling used language. If anyone wants to suggest that in his work "nigger" did not at the time index racial superiority and oppression, fine - just so long as you can provide a reliable secondary source to support the claim. Slrubenstein | Talk 14:46, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

I disagree, and would like to see some actual scholarship here. I contend that the word "Nigger" as used by whites (whether English or American in any era) was always derogatory, although definitely commonly used, and without the public censure that would be routine today. Even in the heyday of black subjugation, many whites objected to the use of the world "Nigger" as they might to other racial slurs, even those who more-or-less accepted the horrific treatment of blacks in their own era. Again, though, we'd need actual historians to verify my conjecture here, but I don't think anyone who's widely read in history or literature would disagree. StrangeAttractor (talk) 04:23, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

I'd have to side with the OP here. At least regarding Kipling, a strong case can be made that much of his work had racist tones (see "The White Man's Burden", etc.). I couldn't claim with any certainty that this can be extrapolated to say that nigger was definitely never used without derogatory intent, but I would suggest that better examples be cited if possible. Nyxtia (talk) 04:15, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

suggestion

could someone please add this example:

• Italian: nero or di colore (coloured) is neutral, negro is mainly considered as racist.

to the list in the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.51.20.166 (talk) 16:34, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

and Korean maybe too?: "흑인" ("black person") is neutral, "검둥이" ("blackie") is perjorative. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.123.96.202 (talk) 16:04, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Also, in the part of spanish meaning, the word "negrito" could be used as a pejorative term, but also as a diminutive of the word "negro", so negro=black and negrito=blacky. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.138.217.74 (talk) 19:58, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Edit request from Lauradalrymple, 30 June 2011

The road referred was not known as "Nigger Grade" but was known as "Nigger Nate Grade". Your cite 64 references the correct name of the road, but the article does not. The road goes up Palomar Mountain to the observatory, ande went past his cabin.

"Nigger Grade", near Temecula, California, named for Nate Harrison, an ex-slave and settler, was renamed "Nate Harrison Grade" in 1955, at the request of the NAACP.[64]

Lauradalrymple (talk) 19:16, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

 Done --Funandtrvl (talk) 20:22, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Add this? (Sweden)

In Sweden the word svart (black) is neutral, neger (negro) is often seen as moderately racist to some but not to all, nigger (nigger) is never used and is seen as EXTREMELY harsh.

Sources? Artem Karimov (talk) 20:14, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

You live in a fantasy world if you think Swedes do not use the word nigger.

Note : IMHO, this discussion seem to have bumped on cultural missunderstandings : the use of the word "nigger" in Sweden is indeed extremely rare, given 1) the strong racist & pejorative meaning and 2) the deeply "liberal" and the "politically correct" culture of Norvegian politics (which does not say that xenophobia is not present, which is, in this case and IMHO, different from base racism) and 3) in the low number of black-looking people versus the number of causasian or arab immigrants. For the sake of Enclyclopedic NPOV, I suggest the following comment : "In Sweden the word svart (black) is neutral, neger (negro) is often seen as somewhat racist to some but not to all, nigger (nigger) is almost not used and is seen as extremely racist". JanvonBismarck (talk) 12:35, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Again, you have either never lived in Sweden (or Finland, for that matter); are so pc yourself that you are self-insulated from Swedish racism and move in small (and liberal) circles; or simply wish to promote the created-identity which liberal Swedes care so much about in an attempt to influence rather than inform. I have lived in either Sweden (Malmo) or Finland (Espoo) for much more than a decade, and have heard many, many people use "nigger" and other racial epithets quite commonly. PC and multicultural ideology is dominant in the Swedish educational system and media, but that doesn't mean all Swedes buy into it. It's not Alabama; but there are plenty of Swedes who are quite racist and who joke about such things. Get real.

Additions to definition

I think someone needs to add Potato Nigger to this article. It refers to people of Irish descent. 94.8.76.2 (talk) 12:54, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Inclusion of nignog

I believe that nignog needs to be included in this article for informational purposes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.17.148.197 (talk) 23:38, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Well than you must be a very stupid person. 24.60.214.65 (talk) 19:49, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

The article is about an offensive word. If "nignog" is a word of similar derivation and similar meaning, perhaps it should be mentioned in passing. I don't see why suggesting so is a priori evidence of racism. (I've never heard of the word before today, so I have very little opinion about whether it is notable or relevant enough to mention.) Phiwum (talk) 02:52, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Go google, you will find from the urban dictionary, the following:

This phrase [nig nog] has absolutely _no_ racial dimension, despite appearances. It is a Northern British (e.g. Yorkshire) term referring to a silly person. It does not derive from nigger and should not be considered racist at all.

Seems there is an association with 'egg nog' [the drink]...82.46.139.31 (talk) 19:44, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

Gilbert and Sullivan

This has no bearing on the use of the word in question, merely to cleaning up references within the article. I am merely changing the title references to the songs from Gilbert and Sullivan's "The Mikado" to reflect their proper names and provide the link to their wikisource lyrics. StavinChain (talk) 16:39, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 50.29.133.207, 29 September 2011

I am a sociologist. My name is JD Smith. The term Bleach Nigger is a term established in approx. 2003-2009. In current times most of thinking society realize the term nigger means: A) a low class, non thinking person [w/o regard to race]. It has also been used to mean: B) "My brother" [ Also, to thinking sociey not in regard to race]. Con't. Used as a person who is liked by his peers. In addition: Usually an overly silly, possibly charismatic type. Bleach nigger is specifically under one of the above definitins except a person of European descent/pink person;[formally/usually called white complexion skin tone]. How used in a sentence-- After the Long Island kid did the spoken word/rap,some fellas said, "That [bleach] nigger's raps are tight." Varification--JD Smith/ Consumer Advocate,Sociologist... contact info: (Redacted) 50.29.133.207 (talk) 21:58, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Is this a serious request? If so, this is not how Wikipedia works. If there is truly such a term, then it may be appropriate to add it to the article if reliable sources can be found to back up the claim. See WP:RS.--Asher196 (talk) 02:40, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

audio file

there is an audio file available here, also would someone add the {{wiktionary|nigger|nigga}} link?Acdcrocks (talk) 07:42, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from , 10 October 2011

{{edit semi-protected}}

By the 1900s, nigger had become a pejorative word. In its stead, the term colored became the mainstream ...

This isn't true, what is being stated here is opinion/fact from the perspective of the USA. The Jim Crow laws etc and their white/colored split does not apply to the rest of the world!

This should be amended to "In it's stead, in the USA the term colored"...

94.193.11.45 (talk) 19:29, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Please give references and re-request. See WP:V  Chzz  ►  00:32, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

French meanings

In French, nègre also stands for ghost writer. Wouldn't this be a valuable addition to the "Uses" sections of the article?

I do confirm that nègre does indeed stand for ghost writer. However, unless I am mistaken, this article is on the concept/name 'Nigger', and not on other languages,. Anyways, nowadays French do use (less and less due to political correctness) the word nègre for ghost writer without (in the overwhelming majority of cases) any racial connotation (I know this might seem strange to US wikizens, whether white or black, with or without dots). In any case, I do believe that this should not be mentionned in this article, but only in the French matching wiki page. JanvonBismarck (talk) 12:45, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Romanian meanings

"cioroi" is the augmentative of "cioara" (crow) and thus is the exact opposite of "little crow": "big crow". it is also the word for a male crow. http://dexonline.ro/definitie/cioroi

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.137.245.9 (talk) 19:18, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

The portmanteau word wigger (white + nigger) denotes an adolescent white boy?

In the Homophones section, it says that the word wigger denotes an adolescent white boy (who emulates "street black behavior")... as far as I know, adult white males can also be considered wiggers. Also, I've seen the word wigger being used to refer to females who emulate "street black behavior". So yeah, this definition of wigger needs to be altered a bit IMO. PrintedScholar (talk) 00:23, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Has been fixed. Gorgak25 (talk) 10:34, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

African Burial Ground National Monument

Please fix link from African Burial Ground to African Burial Ground National Monument. Thanks in advance. 66.234.33.8 (talk) 14:04, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 16 January 2012

Within the section named "Cinema", we should add a reference to the movie titled "The Dam Busters" made in 1955. In that movie, a principle character has a beloved black dog whose name is "Nigger". It is spoken many times throughout the movie.

98.155.18.53 (talk) 21:38, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

There is already a whole section about the film: Nigger#The_Dam_Busters_film. Δρ.Κ. ^{λόγοςπράξις} 22:06, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Estonian meaning

To be added to the list of "Other languages":

• Estonian: "neeger" is neutral (in some specific contexts it is used jokingly, e.g. "IT-neeger"); however, due to pressure from English-speaking world, "must" (dark/black), "mustanahaline" (black-skinned) and "tumedanahaline" (dark-skinned) are often adopted in mainstream media.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Nemecec (talk • contribs) 08:54, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Wikipedia is not a reliable source since everybody is able to edit it! mabdul 13:21, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

Oh well, copied sources from that page. --Nemecec (talk) 16:17, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Please do not edit posts, it makes it difficult to follow the conversation. Can you clarify what sort of reference the second reference is? It seems like it might be an editorial or opinion piece. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 03:27, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Second reference is an article in Sirp (http://www.sirp.ee/), an Estonian-culture-oriented newspaper. The article analyzes usage of the "neeger" word in Estonian daily newspapers - as such, it is not really an "opinion article". Nemecec (talk) 10:12, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Since you are registered and have been editing for over four days, you can edit this yourself after making four more edits. That way is probably the best, Celestra (talk) 14:55, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Hungarian edit req 21 Mar 2012

Article claims with no citation that the word feka means "little black one" and is pejorative. It is absolutely incorrect and shall be removed.

First, the word feka is a slang expression, derived from fekete ("black") and means simply "black" and is used only for humans (it is never used to describe the color of objects or animals). It has nothing to do with "little", either. Second, the word feka is neutral, even it is used in complimentary contexts. Note that the quality of this neutral word heavily depends on actual context and situation.

To present a definitely pejorative term, the section should include the word nigger which is somewhat adopted as a racist slur, and is sparsely used by extremists, mostly in commenting related news.

Suggestion: in the Usages/Other languages section, please replace the Hungarian reference with this:

Hungarian: néger is neutral, nigger is adopted as racist.

Thanks for your assistance. a native Hungarian reader

Featured Article

What would have to be done to this article to get it to FA status, I'd like to think that over 60 years we have come to a point we can examine our history and see how far we've come.

<3 ♥ Solarra ♥ ^{♪ Talk ♪} ߷ _{♀ Contribs ♀} 04:30, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

The only real issue here seems to be the {{citation needed}} tags. Other than that...it's actually pretty decent. Maybe nominating for GA first...? Not sure CyanGardevoir ^{(used EDIT!)} 10:35, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Is there any problem with Boss Nigger or what?

ts not in the film section. --Niemti (talk) 09:57, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

A more likely option is that no-one decided to add it in ;) CyanGardevoir ^{(used EDIT!)} 10:35, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

"Niggardly" hatnote

I removed the unnecessary hatnote, "Not to be confused with niggardly". My change was reverted "because they sound similar". It is quite an insult to our readers to insinuate that they need to be told that two completely unrelated words shouldn't be confused with eachother. What do others think? Joefromrandb (talk) 18:03, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Why would anyone get insulted? Consider the article niggardly, which redirects to Controversies about the word "niggardly", in which the lead says In the United States, there have been several controversies concerning the word "niggardly," an adjective meaning "stingy" or "miserly," due to its phonetic similarity to the racial slur "nigger." The two words are etymologically unrelated. suggests that despite being etymologically unrelated there have been issues of confusion between nigger and niggard. The hat in this article clearly states the disambiguation. Fasttimes68 (talk) 18:31, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

You've basically made my point for me. Typing in "niggardly" will take someone to that article, not this one. And by "insult to our readers" I meant "insult to our readers' intelligence". Joefromrandb (talk) 18:48, 24 Ju>ly 2012 (UTC)

After reviewing my edit summary, it seems I typed "entymology", rather that "etymology". The irony. That's what disambiguators are for. Joefromrandb (talk) 19:04, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Well the terms are tangently related, as evident by the controversey. Keeping the hat merely points out that relevancy. Fasttimes68 (talk) 19:29, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Joefromrandb on this, it doesn't seem necessary as a hatnote. Niggardly is already discussed in Nigger#Homophones, so the hatnote seems redundant and unnecessary, and the word doesn't seem to be common enough to be often confused. (Also, etymology can be confusing, I do it too) - SudoGhost 06:13, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

I removed the hat per SudoGhost's comment. Fasttimes68 (talk) 16:26, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Refers too much to nigger

I see the term "nigger" being like the term "gay", because gay used to mean "happy" and nigger generally meant "ignorant person", a term made by whotes which the black took. The gay arricle definitely addresses the both happy and homosexual meaning, whereas this one focuses mainly on black people. I suggest a major rewrite. If anyone could leave me a message on my talk page and we could get together and start working on it I'd be thrilled. 72.230.135.196 (talk) 13:27, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

The word "nigger" clearly derives from negro and always has had a racial connotation. It did not start out meaning "ignorant person" independently of a reference to race. In this respect, it is not much like "gay". Phiwum (talk) 12:44, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Neger

'Neger' is definitely not a neutral word in Dutch language. If you would call an African a 'neger' he or she would feel offended. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.195.52.99 (talk) 19:40, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Nigger Rig derivative

Don't know if it can be added to this page or not. Nigger Rig definition- to fix something temporarily, or to rig something up in order to make it work, often compromising safety. (not a good definition, maybe you can find something more prossional?) Also called African Engineering. 06:32, 6 November 2012‎ User:98.231.60.118

Niggerdom

I don't see Niggerdom anywhere. I was going to add it to reference something that is encompassed (perceived or otherwise) by an african/black spehere of influence. As said by Dave Chapel "I am not in any way shape or form involved in any niggerdom!" PortlandOregon97217 (talk) 21:19, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Funny skit, but I disagree that a reference to it belongs in the article. --Onorem♠Dil 21:29, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Homo/Hetero: The Struggle for Sexual Identity” (Harper’s, September 1970) would disagree with you disagreeing with me. It speaks of "Niggerdom among men". It is an essay by Joseph Epstein. Will you be changing it back or would you like me to do it? PortlandOregon97217 (talk) 22:49, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

I will not be changing it back. --Onorem♠Dil 23:00, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

You're going to need to provide some source showing that it's relevant to the article's subject. If some third-party sources has commented on the use of the word and how it relates to this article's subject then it would be relevant, but if nobody thinks its important enough to even mention, Wikipedia should not either. - SudoGhost 17:13, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Music: Rock n' Roll Nigger

The song "Rock n' Roll Nigger" by Patti Smith should be noted in this article under the Music category. It is serves as an example that the word nigger was used to identify a group of people of a broader label than blacks or African Americans; she refers to the word as if it means outcast. While it may sound overtly racist, reading the lyrics can make it clear that her use of the term refers to everyone. "Jimi Hendrix was a nigger.Jesus Christ and Grandma, too.Jackson Pollock was a nigger.Nigger, nigger, nigger, nigger,nigger, nigger, nigger."

24.44.81.20 (talk) 08:20, 17 November 2012 (UTC)