Talk:John Ball (priest)

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Britannica 1911

I have tried to improve on the horrible language of Britannica 1911. I am satisfied with the present version. The article still needs plenty of sources, and it may aid the reader if, in places, the article were to actually make sense. Adieu, my invisible friends! Brainmuncher 01:30, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Anon. addition

removed for being unsourced

John Ball lived during the turbulent 14th century in England. As a slave he became famous for his speeches. A poor man and an itinerant, he was made a peasant priest by John Wyclif although Ball opposed some of the church’s tenets. As these dissensions existed between factions within the church and between the nobility and the peasantry, the governmental control was being tossed about in the royal courts and claims to land was causing destructive wars. Wars between countries led to wars between social classes and death became characteristic of these years. An added mortal destructive force came from the presence of the Black Death which hit England first in 1348-49, and returned in 1362 and 1369. Although John Ball’s birthdate is questionable, his death came as a result of his participation in the Peasant’s Revolt in 1381-82.

Edward III became king of England at the age of fifteen in 1327 at the disposition of his father Edward II; in 1328 Edward III was married and had his first son, Edward the Black Prince, in 1330. Until this time, the government was primarily in the hands of his mother Isabella and Roger de Mortimer; however, in 1330 Edward took control of the government forcing his mother to retire and killing Mortimer. Attempting to solidify the English areas only led to trouble and in 1337 a series of wars (called the Hundred Years Wars from 1337-1453) began, which existed throughout Edwards’ reign and after.

The Black Death hit England in 1348-49 and killed nearly a third of the population. Labor became scarce and wages rose sharply. In 1351, Parliament passed a statute controlling wages which caused unrest in the peasantry. Another plague struck in 1362 and again in 1369. Added frustration came when landlords began "asserting their ancient manorial rights." In 1375 a truce was signed with France, but unrest still prevailed. Poor health and eventual death of his son and the strength of his brother John of Gaunt led to Edward’s death in 1376.

John Ball was excommunicated in 1376 for his advocacy of "ecclesiastical poverty and social equality" for priests in direct opposition to the church’s ideas and he was imprisoned at Maidstone by John of Gaunt. The next year Edward III died and Richard became king in 1377 at the age of 10, but John of Gaunt was in control and there was much parlaying for power among the lords in court. Finally the rebellion of the peasants occurred in 1380 when the poll tax was increased. The Peasant’s Revolt of 1381 began at Essex and quickly spread to Kent, where Wat Tyler was chosen leader. As they captured Canterbury and went on to London, their numbers increased as they freed many from prisons, including John Ball, who, being a priest, was an important addition to their cause. His enthusiasm in their cause and his persuasive nature encouraged the peasants into London. Tyler tried unsuccessfully to talk with the king (who was being controlled by others, chiefly John of Gaunt), which resulted into a mob of peasants storming many royal houses and burning Savoy Palace, the residence of John of Gaunt. On June 14, 1381, Richard II met with the rebels at Miles End and agreed to "abolish serfdom, feudal service, market monopolies, and restrictions on buying and selling."

But this was short-lived because some of the rebels, led by Tyler, continued their plundering, captured the Tower of London, killing the archbishop of Canterbury and other officials. Tyler presented more demands but this time was challenged to a duel by the mayor of London; Tyler was mortally wounded and the peasants were quickly dispersed. Angry over the continued destruction and killing after their initial agreement, Richard revoked the earlier grants. John Ball was taken to St. Albans, "where he was hanged, drawn, and quartered."

The Dream of John Ball was written by William Morris in 1888; the poem contrasts the ugliness of the machine world with the poetry and beauty of the Middle Ages, even though the particular period in which Ball lived had little beauty.

--—Preceding unsigned comment added by Srnec (talk • contribs) 17:33, 4 July 2009

There are plenty of questions as to the extent to which Gaunt was actually responsible for the conditions that led to the revolts (he had the good fortune not to be in London at the time). As the wealthiest man in the country - he epitomised the "overmighty subject" of feudal England - and the king's uncle (and himself a prince of the blood) he was naturally a leading member of the council during Richard II's minority (because council members would vie for power, a king's minority was often an uncertain and unstable time). He certainly was an easy scapegoat for a lot of the problems during Richard's minority, but his actual responsibility is questionable. Note that he never tried to pull a Richard III by usurping his nephew's crown, even though Richard II was a terrible king and John probably could have gotten away with it. I particularly take issue with the assertions that 1) he had any influence on Richard's actions during the Peasants' Revolt crisis (as noted, John was not in London at the time), and 2) "Poor health and eventual death of his son and the strength of his brother John of Gaunt led to Edward’s death in 1376." I don't see what Edward III's grief about the death of the Black Prince (his eldest son & the father of Richard II) - likely a contributing factor to the king's declining health - had to do with "the strength of his [the Black Prince's] brother John of Gaunt." d174.111.242.35 (talk) 20:05, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

requested additions

It would be nice if this article answered the following:

1) What was Ball actually convicted of? (treason? heresy? something besides or in addition to these?)

2) Why was he granted a trial, unlike most of the participants in the 1381 uprising? Was it a regular civil trial, or an ecclesiastical trial?

TIA. 174.111.242.35 (talk) 19:18, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Translation?

The quote is so old that I am unable to discern what Ball meant. What modern word is the word "span?" The closest I can come is "spin" as in making thread. Is this correct? Nick Beeson (talk) 15:43, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, this is correct. Adam delved (as in dug the fields working as a farmer), and Eve span (making clothes for both of them). The English verb "to spin" has an irregular past tense. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 19:55, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]