Talk:MS-13

Eliminate

Can the rest of humanity agree that MS-13 and AlQaeda should be eliminated and shot on sight?

Edit request on 2 April 2012

Please remove footnote # 37. ^ http://wn.com/New_Haven_CT_Vietnam_Veterans_Memorial_Hit_AGAIN_MS-13_gang

Skywink (talk) 13:56, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

 Not done: Why? Celestra (talk) 15:02, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Spread to Europe

In April 2012 the first reports of MS13 gangs active in s'Hertogenbosch came in.

Reports state that groups of children and young adults, some kids as young as 12, getting MS13 tatoos and displaying extremely violent behaviour. The rituals they are reported to perform are also exactly the same as those in Los Angeles, or anywhere else MS13 is active.

Misspellings

Many throughout — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.82.247.37 (talk) 12:42, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

• WP:SOFIXIT. Niteshift36 (talk) 17:38, 16 June 2012 (UTC)cuyaswklkjljlk

Maras as political actors

Here's a good ref from InSight Crime. It could serve the article quite well. [1] ComputerJA (talk) 04:32, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 (talk) 14:01, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

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Mara Salvatrucha → MS-13 – Per WP:COMMONNAME. A bit over a million Google hits for "Mara Salvatrucha" -wikipedia. 364 million for MS-13 -wikipedia. I don't think the official name does much good here when the gang is commonly known as MS-13. --BDD (talk) 23:53, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

• re-direct MS-13 here, but the the name change doesn't seem needed. Niteshift36 (talk) 00:16, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Support. I agree with BDD. We can bend the rules this time and allow the change. I don't feel strongly towards keeping the name or moving it, but you have my support. ComputerJA (talk) 03:25, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

• Since MS-13 now redirects here, do we need to bend the rules? People searching for either term will end up here. Niteshift36 (talk) 12:54, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

• Yeah, you're right. I noticed that the move was made once I had posted. Thanks. ComputerJA (talk) 13:15, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

• Which rules, exactly, would we be bending? --BDD (talk) 15:20, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

• Does it really matter? Both terms bring them here at this point. Leaving it as the existing (and actual name) presents no problem at all. So why are we intent on "fixing" something that isn't broken? Niteshift36 (talk) 16:43, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

• That's just what we do. Do you disagree with this move, for example? --BDD (talk) 17:06, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

• "That's just what we do"? That is hardly a persuasive reason. As for your example....wow, could you find something any less on-point? The current title here is not some acronym that nobody understands. It's a fairly common use. I understand that you have some affection for the WP:COMMONNAME guideline but that doesn't mean everything needs "fixed". Again, you've given no real reason to change something that isn't broken to something that already leads here except "cause we do". Niteshift36 (talk) 18:18, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

• Ok, I can be more formal. The nutshell summary of WP:AT: "Article titles should be recognizable to readers, unambiguous, and consistent with usage in reliable English-language sources." The Google hits certainly suggest that MS-13 is predominant in reliable English-language sources. More formal analyses may use the gang's full name, but the same could be said about the established WP:COMMONNAME examples, such as Bill Clinton, heroin, caffeine, and Nazi Party. Mara Salvatrucha is an official name, which is not the best choice for an article title when common alternatives are available. You may be very familiar with that official name—I see you're interested in (serving in?) law enforcement, so that makes sense. But plenty of other people are just going to hear about MS-13 on the news and may never hear the full name. I only encountered the full name during the course of some research. You may not like the Fort Dix example, but it's apt. People familiar with the US military may know what JB MDL Dix is, but most people just hear "Fort Dix." "Fort Dix" existed as a redirect to JB MDL Dix before that requested move; the existence of redirects is a poor reason to ignore the WP:COMMONNAME policy. --BDD (talk) 19:39, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

• Nice try. Cutting and pasting a large about of a policy I've already read doesn't really further your cause. I know you have a huge affection for that policy but your argument boils down to "because it is there". While the Ghits may be a bigger number, bigger numbers aren't what drives everything. Mara Salvatrucha is NOT an uncommon term. Well over a million Ghits proves that. It is not ambiguous. In fact, there would be no other "mara salvatrucha". There are, however, other uses of MS-13. It is consistant with use in reliable sources. So there really isn't a prblem with COMMONNAME at all.Since typing MS-13 in the box will lead you here, any fears of people not finding it because it isn't "common" enough are unfounded. And no, the Ft. Dix example really isn't that relevant. We are back to you insistig that we fix something that really isn't broken and the reason is "because it's there". Sorry, ain't buying it. Niteshift36 (talk) 01:01, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

• Support The arguments posted above have convinced me that MS-13 is the best title, and I'm not dissuaded by the argument that MS-13 already redirects here so it doesn't matter anyway. Theoldsparkle (talk) 14:12, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

editrequest

Please add

"MS13" redirects here. For other uses, see MS 13.

{{redirect|MS13|other uses|MS 13}}

to the top of the page. --70.49.127.65 (talk) 02:58, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

 Done [2] Thank you. Rjd0060 (talk) 03:16, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Etymology Numbers

Perhaps the 13 part of the name may be derived from another gang, in Venice, V13 (not Italy). Other nearby gangs, subsequently use same number - Santa Monica 13, Culver City 13. Venice 13 was the postal Zone prior to USPS zip codes (90013) or zip+4. 144.183.224.2 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:39, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 12 October 2012

Please change "...mistakened for a member of the Bloods gang." to "...mistaken for a member of the Bloods gang." Mistakened is not a form of mistaken. Drtocto (talk) 15:19, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

•  Done Niteshift36 (talk) 15:51, 12 October 2012 (UTC)