Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Hurricane Carol/archive1

Hurricane Carol

Featured article candidates/Hurricane Carol/archive1

Nominator(s): ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 02:38, 8 February 2013 (UTC) --12george1 (talk) 02:43, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured article because Hurricane Carol was a hell of a storm. There's a wicked bad stawm up in New England soon, but Carol was a bad one back in the 50's, in fact one of two storms to hit New England in a two week period in 1954. So it's an important storm, and after a lot of work (with some assistance from User:12george1, who I have invited to be a co-nominator), I believe the article is a great representation on the event, including the hurricane's track and what it did. Hope you enjoy. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 02:38, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I accept your invitation, Hurricanehink. This will be a WikiCup nomination.--12george1 (talk) 02:43, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This is a WikiCup nomination. The following nominators are WikiCup participants: 12george1. To the nominator: if you do not intend to submit this article at the WikiCup, feel free to remove this notice. UcuchaBot (talk) 00:01, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hoping to review this, but it may be a few days. --Rs chen 7754 06:33, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- No prob, I'm not in any hurry. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 06:52, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- How can a hurricane be "well-organized"?
  - A hurricane can be "well-organized" when the eye has been cleared, outflow and spiral bands have a good appearance, and there is an overall symmetrical satellite image. Compare Hurricane Isabel in 2003 to Hurricane Gordon in 2000 to get a better understanding.--12george1 (talk) 22:56, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- How is source 5 reliable? Seems to be linking to geocities.
  - The author (Michael A. Grammatico) is considered a reliable person. According to a brief biography about him, "Michael holds a degree in Physical Geography, with a specialization in Climatology from Central Connecticut State University. Michael has held several positions in climate research and natural hazards, including consulting scientific advisor for the Office of Insurance Services." Therefore, his work is also reliable.--12george1 (talk) 22:56, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Ditto with 17 and 18.
  - See my previous comment. --12george1 (talk) 22:56, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- More later. --Rs chen 7754 19:01, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  - Have the sources been discussed anywhere, or used in previous FACs? --Rs chen 7754 06:47, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    - Most sources have been used in previous FAC's, such as ref #2 (the Monthly Weather Review) and Google news (both used in 1950 Atlantic hurricane season). Many other sources are from government agencies, such as the US Weather Bureau (which was the precursor to NOAA), the National Weather Service, and Environment Canada (Canada's equivalent to our NWS). --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 18:10, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      - Specifically, the ones that I have commented about above. --Rs chen 7754 18:12, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
        The Michael Grammatico one was not used elsewhere, since that link was specific to this storm. As for the Wayne Cotterly, his work is referenced by NCDC/NOAA (a government agency). --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 18:16, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

"Hurricane Carol was among the worst tropical cyclones to affect the New England region of the United States." -- Ever or on record?
- Added "on record", although to be fair, it's unlikely there was a storm that caused $400 million in damage in NY before Carol :P --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:36, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"On August 27, Carol intensified to reach winds of 105 mph (169 km/h), but weakened as its motion turned to a northwest drift." -- 169 km/h needs to be rounded. In the second sentence you say it was moving northwest, but in this one you say it turned to the northwest. Confusing.
- Fixed both. I changed it to "became a northwest drift". --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:36, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"A strong trough of low pressure turned the hurricane northeastward, and Carol intensified into a major hurricane." -- The wording of this sentence suggests that the trough prompted the system to intensify into a major hurricane, which I do not believe is the case here.
- Added "later". --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:36, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"While paralleling the Mid-Atlantic and Southeastern United States, the storm produced strong winds and rough seas caused minor coastal flooding and slight damage to houses in North Carolina, Virginia, Washington, D.C., Delaware, and New Jersey." -- Caused to causing
- Ack, I blame 12G, he did it. :P --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:36, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"Storm surged flooded LaGuardia Airport and inundated Montauk Highway, which left the eastern portion of Long Island isolated." -- Surge, not surged.
- See above. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:36, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"Following the storm, Carol was retired, becoming the first name to be stricken from the naming lists in the Atlantic basin." -- I personally don't like the usage of "stricken". How about removed or something more generic?
- How about "removed"? --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:36, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"It moved to the northwest, and intensified into a tropical storm just six hours after forming" -- No need for a comma.
- kk. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:36, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"With a large anticyclone persisting across the southeastern United States,[3] the motion of Carol turned to a northwest drift." -- Same as my second comment. You can't start northwest and then turn northwest."
- Tweaked. It started as NNW and later became NW. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:36, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"Early on August 31, Carol passed very near Cape Hatteras, North Carolina with Reconnaissance Aircraft intensity estimates between 75 mph (120 km/h) to 125 mph (200 km/h)." -- Comma after Carolina, and I believe it should be "between 75 mph (120 km/h) AND 125 mph (200 km/h)."
- Changed wording, and combined the like units. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:36, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"The hurricane continued north-northeastward with a forward motion of up to 39 mph (63 km/h),[2] and Carol intensified further to make landfall on eastern Long Island as an upper Category 2 or a Category 3 hurricane" -- Surely the database lists one or the other. Did it make landfall as a 2 or 3?
- Actually, database lists both. Best track says C2, but HURDAT US hurricane list says C3. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:36, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"After quickly crossing the Long Island Sound the hurricane made its final landfall on Old Saybrook, Connecticut." -- Comma after Sound?
- First you say no comma further up, now comma. I'm gonna go into a comma if this keeps up! </lame> --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:36, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"Carol was a small hurricane, with the strongest winds near and to the east of the center. The eye remained well-defined as it made landfall, unusual for New England hurricane landfalls; residents in Groton, Connecticut reported clear skies and calm conditions as the hurricane made landfall, which was followed by an increase to hurricane-force winds 30 minutes later." -- What's the purpose of these two sentences?
- Talking about the eye, size, and structure, which wasn't detailed much elsewhere in the MH. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:36, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"The powerful extratropical storm continued northward, and after entering Canada it lost its identity over southern Quebec." --> "The powerful extratropical storm continued northward, and after entering Canada, lost its intensity over southern Quebec."
- I like it! --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:36, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe more to come later, this is the lede and Meteorological history. All in all, though, not too bad. TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk) 19:52, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review. I replied to each. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:36, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support. - All in all a fine contribution. Some minor prose issues remain, but certainly nothing substantial enough so as to delay promotion to FA. Well done, nice work! GabeMc ^{(talk|contribs)} 00:21, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support -- As noted by GabeMc, minor prose issues remain, but nothing stands out to delay my support. TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk) 21:37, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support Okay, I spent the last two days reading and, as usual, the writing and sourcing is good. I am more than happy to support. — ΛΧΣ²¹ 17:26, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Image check - all OK. ~~just some cleanup needed:~~

File:Westerly,_Rhode_Island_after_Carol_storm_surge.jpg - OK. Is this image available online (geocities is down)? A source link would be nice to have, although source information is sufficient. Author info or "author unknown" for completeness is missing.
- Fixed, I actually found the geocities link on the WayBack Machine.--12george1 (talk) 18:57, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
~~File:Carol_in_Rhode_Island.jpg - OK, but NOAA-source link is broken, they have changed apparently. Author info or "author unknown" is missing.~~
- Fixed; It was also available through the WayBack Machine--12george1 (talk) 18:57, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
~~File:Hurricane_Carol_Storm_Surge_in_color_1954.jpg - OK, but NOAA-link is down as above.~~
- Fixed; available copy found again through the WayBack Machine--12george1 (talk) 18:57, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
other images and maps all OK. GermanJoe (talk) 15:29, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Status updated, thanks for the quick fixes. All images OK now. GermanJoe (talk) 19:45, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose 1c. I'm not too concerned about the Cotterly references. If his work is good enough for NOAA to recommend, I'll take it here. But I'm certain we can do better than the Grammatico Geocities reference. For one thing, I don't think his biography really places him as a substantive expert in the field (to wit: I don't think he's notable himself), and so I'm a little hesitant to greenlight his Geocities page as reliable by extension, especially at the FA level. That's the definition of material without editorial control. But more to the point, this really was a historic storm system, and there's a lot of literature on the topic. This article leans on that Geocities reference 10 times, and much or all of the claims it supports can be cited elsewhere. Is there really no better source to say that Carol's storm surge covered Montauk highway (what about this) or that the storm largely spared western Connecticut (perhaps page 181 here), for example? A truly comprehensive review of the topic could probably improve on even those sources, the result of < 5 minutes of searching. Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 20:04, 12 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Although I fought to keep the link above, I sorta changed my mind. I fixed your two replacement suggestions above. I will look for ways to remove the remaining 10 usages later.--12george1 (talk) 04:45, 14 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]