Talk:John Allen Muhammad

This article has not yet been rated on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Biography

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Crime and Criminal Biography High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Crime and Criminal Biography Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

United States: District of Columbia / Louisiana Low‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	Washington, D.C. portal This article is supported by WikiProject District of Columbia (assessed as Mid-importance).
	Louisiana portal This article is supported by WikiProject Louisiana (assessed as Low-importance).

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Virginia Mid‑importance

	Virginia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Virginia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of Virginia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.VirginiaWikipedia:WikiProject VirginiaTemplate:WikiProject VirginiaVirginia
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Maryland Mid‑importance

	Maryland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Maryland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of Maryland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MarylandWikipedia:WikiProject MarylandTemplate:WikiProject MarylandMaryland
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the John Allen Muhammad article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1: 15 days

Archives

Archive 1

This page has archives. Sections older than 15 days may be automatically archived by when more than 3 sections are present.

Reason for killings

I was just made aware of this tonight, since his wife told the story at Mizzou's (University of Missouri, Columbia) campus tonight. (thurs. sept 30, at 7pm) The reason for the killings is because he was after his wife. He had kidnapped their three children, and lost the trial for custody. He then decided to go after his wife. He proclaimed that he was innocent the whole time. The day of his execution hsi children asked to speak with him, but he never contacted them, and the execution went on that night. It was later revealed the reason he didn't speak to his children is for fear of being asked the question 'why?' because it would've broken him and the facade he put up to stay confident in his belief of his innocence would have crumbled.

Misleadingly "Islamic" feel to article due to questionable source material

Regarding this sentence near the beginning of the article: "Drawings by Malvo describe the murders as part of a "jihad" (Arabic for "struggle in the way of God")."

I think this is very misleading, (1.) because the the style and some of the words expressed in the source material are scarily Islamophobic, and further sources are not given in that linked article to make it seem authentic (2.) The article implies the drawings were made by John Muhammad's partner after the incident and while in prison. By not including these facts in the sentence AND putting it in the very beginning of the article, it gives John Muhammad too Islamic of a flavor that he didn't even claim to have or want, at least as far as I can tell from all the other information as well as what we have already proven to know on the talk page.

To keep the information we have in there now, it NEEDS a better source than the one provided. Notice my changes in the history that were revoked. I included a line that the information was subject to media biases, and it was removed basically saying that the fact that the source was biased is not information given by the source itself.. Okay, I understand... But let's find a better source about Malvo's drawings, until then I propose that the "jihad" reference be removed entirely, or, at the very VERY least, as supported in the reference, it should be mentioned that these drawings were supposedly found after the fact and not before, and this should be moved to elsewhere in the article. Otherwise, at it stands, it is very misleading. Sawyer207 (talk) 03:46, 20 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Merger proposal

I propose that John Allen Muhammed (J.A.M.) be merged into Beltway sniper attacks. The biography article of J.A.M. falls under WP:BLP1E & WP:PERP. J.A.M. is primarily notable for the series of events that are the subject of the article Beltway sniper attacks. The size of Beltway sniper attacks, is slightly greater than 50k, which is below the size that would require a sub-article per WP:LIMIT. The size of the J.A.M. article is slightly greater than 30k size; merging the J.A.M. article into the Beltway sniper attacks would not exceed the size prescribed in LIMIT.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 14:41, 16 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Per WP:MERGE, I am notifying the involved WikiProjects of these two articles of this proposal, and leaving this notification per WP:CANVASS#Appropriate notification.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 14:48, 16 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose because, due to the articles and books that focus on this person and/or his killing partner (Lee Boyd Malvo), there's a lot more that can be added to this article; such additions, because there's not much to state that wouldn't be more about the Beltway sniper attacks, would be analysis of Muhammad's thinking and behavior. Whether or not he fits the criteria of a serial killer or spree killer (or a even a combination of the two), which is touched on in the lead, is an example. And there's very likely a lot more to be written in such vein (thinking and behavior) about him and Lee Boyd Malvo in the future (yes, I know about WP:CRYSTALBALL). To me, if a merge is desirable, it would be better to merge the John Allen Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo articles together (under the title John Allen Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo). Why not propose that the Lee Boyd Malvo article also be merged? Flyer22 (talk) 19:04, 16 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I would support a merger of Lee Boyd Malvo as well per WP:BLP1E & WP:PERP to the Beltway sniper attacks article. As they are only the felons who have been convicted of the event which is the subject of the Beltway sniper attacks, and they are primarily notable for the subject of that article, BLP1E and PERP apply to both. Both their articles can be summarized, and merged. If even after summarization, content is expanded, a Sub-article can be recreated with the name suggested by Flyer22.

I will tag that article as well. Thanks for the idea.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 00:11, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. I simply don't see what would be gained by merging the articles. If it works, don't fix it. Also, Flyer22 makes good arguments against a merge. – Herzen (talk) 23:27, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. There are plenty of articles about murderers on Wikipedia, some much less prominent than Muhammad. See John William Byrd, Jr.. Illegitimate Barrister (talk) 06:46, 8 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Those articles may not follow the guideline WP:BLP1E and WP:PERP and might be good candidates for merger to the article of the event. Also WP:OTHERSTUFFEXIST just because some articles don't follow relevant guidelines or essays, doesn't mean other articles shouldn't.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 20:08, 8 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Malvo Shooting helped get us into the Iraq War...

The single biggest accidental effect of the Malvo shootings gets ignored by everybody. The Senate debate on whether to go to war took place at the same time. War was declared on October 11, 2002. The Malvo shooting spree dominated the headlines and pushed the war debate completely off the front page of most newspapers for the entire debate. The last chance to oppose the war was lost in a sea of headlines screaming "SNIPER !!!"

Malvo Shooting helped get us into the Iraq War...

The single biggest accidental effect of the Malvo shootings gets ignored by everybody. The Senate debate on whether to go to war took place at the same time. War was declared on October 11, 2002. The Malvo shooting spree dominated the headlines and pushed the war debate completely off the front page of most newspapers for the entire debate. The last chance to oppose the war was lost in a sea of headlines screaming "SNIPER !!!"