Talk:Études (Chopin)

What does 'founs' mean? Kisch 12:42, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm guessing that it's meant to say "known"? enochlau (talk) 16:46, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That's what I thought - in which case I'm going to have to be a complete git and remove this edit, because the only new information it contains is unverifiable (see last section of this page), if this rather odd word means what we think it does. The next paragraph already said that they were the first etudes to become part of the concert repertoire, so saying it here adds nothing. I don't understand what's meant by 'including melodic and harmonic structure' (as shite as they are, Czerny's studies have a 'melodic and harmonic structure', just not a very good one), and I don't want to even get started on what constitutes a 'musical circle' in Wikiland. Sorry, Hex. Kisch 02:17, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

BTW Hex, can you enlighten us as to how much of your GC page is your own work, and how much is copied from the programme notes you cite as a source?

Original research (pasted from original discussion at Talk:Chopin etudes)

This article is a direct copy and paste from http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/3495/etudes.html. I attempted to nominate it for speedy delete, but User:Hex90 removed the tag. The editor claims that he is the author of the website. I then referred him to the WP:NOR policy on this very talk page, but that seems to have been deleted. Any information about the Chopin etudes should be a part of the Frédéric Chopin article where it can be watched by those actively editing that article. This article should either be a redirect or speedy deleted as copyvio/original research. Wikipedia is not a Geocities mirror. -- Malber (talk • contribs) 16:19, 23 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have created an article Études (Chopin) (I'm trying to follow the naming convention for classical works, please fix if it's wrong). Kisch 11:15, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A-ha. I've redirected it to the new article, which is clearly the one we should have. Not everything from Hex's geocities site constitutes OR: many of the technical musical terms would be readily verifiable by reference to the score. However, the more descriptive parts clearly do. I also think this subject deserves an independent article, as the work is a relatively major one in the classical piano canon and we could, in principle, have aperfect article about the etudes. The Land 11:27, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A lot of the Geocities stuff is factual and could be incorporated in a modified fashion - I presume I'd need Hex's permission to start doing this though. Kisch 12:39, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That's fine, but it should be paraphrased, not copy-and-pasted. A more reputable source should be cited than a geocities site. If the scores are going to be used as source, there should be examples. This shouldn't be too much of a problem as the pieces are in the public domain. Just please no scans of piano books which would be copyvios. -- Malber (talk • contribs) 13:39, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Actually the GC page has at the bottom:

Source: Frank Cooper, Program Notes for the Garrick Ohlsson, Piano recital: Wednesday, March 20, 1996 at 8:00pm at the Ford Centre For The Performing Arts 1995/1996 season.

Looks like we'd be best off not using that, and doing it from the score. My efforts so far are sadly rather prosaic compared to Mr Cooper's fine words, but at least verifiable. Kisch 14:45, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Minor quibbles about relative fame

Thanks for the contributions, but I'd question

a) that the etudes are the best known of Chopin's works - apart from the Revolutionary, I'd say there are many waltzes, mazurkas, polonaises etc that would be equally well known to the man on the proverbial Clapham omnibus

b) I don't think Op.10 No.3 is very well known at all - I grew up through the 'classical system' and never heard or played a note of it until about a year ago. The quote is good, though, if a source can be found.

I think the only Etude deserving of any kind of superlative wrt fame is the 'Revolutionary', and possibly the 'Black Key'. I know we're talking about almost incomprehensibly good pieces of music here, and I get carried away myself, but please keep to the verifiable and objective. Kisch 01:41, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]