Talk:Robert Byrd

Archive 1

Redundancy

Yes I did trim many of the redundancies in the article on Bryd's racist past. The new version mentions his Klan membership and opposition to the 1964 Civil Rights Act. However, this cannot be the focus of the article, as Keetoowah seems to demand that we make it. Where he has been most influential is not his opposition to civil rights legislation four decades ago but as a party later and later the top Democrat on the Appropriations Committee. 172 23:11, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Yes, and I'm sure David Duke could have been influential, if his Klan membership had been covered up by the media, instead of them crucifying him for it. And it's a shame about Stromm Thurmond's retirement being tainted by a mainstream media obsession with what he did two generations ago, not to mention the harm it did to the Lott for commending him. And, certainly, the same standard should have been used for Byrd/Dod as Thurmond/Lott, either way.

But, in real life, all the facts deserve to be covered, embarassing and glorifying, with precisely the amount of space necessary to include all the information. The redundancy in the article certainly should be cut, but you were using it as an excuse to censor it, deleting legitimate facts that people have discussed and researched extensively. That is entirely unacceptable.

I will edit the article to remove the double mentions (which were probably the result of an undelete war with some censorship freak), and put the rest into chronological order. But the facts are all staying. If you have more facts to add...I was noticing that his prominent role in the Clinton impeachment is entirely ignored, for example...then you can do that, to add some sense of balance and proportion. More stuff from the latter part of his career, instead of hiding stuff from the former part. Kaz 01:01, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

• I have now edited the page, removing all the double entries (I could find), and putting everything in chronological order, as much as is possible while retaining some of the continuity. I had to change wording mostly just where paragraphs started with a reference to the formerly previous paragraph or such, and I added some non-controversial stuff. We definitely need more about Byrd's time in the West Virginia state government, his time as a US Representative, what his platform as a Presidential candidates was, and pretty much anything else except his time in the Senate and Klan. And I still think we need some mention of his role in the Clinton impeachment. Kaz 01:54, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Hey, take a look my rewrite that was reverted by a POV troll. I already added it. 172 02:40, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I'm one of the people who reverted your "rewrite", which was centered around deleting or hiding at the end anything embarassing truths about Byrd, while using grossly PoV wording to talk about what a great guy he is. I have now integrated pretty much all of the bits of original content that you included in that version, but am keeping it in chronological order, which is much fairer and more objective than either you hiding any negative truths at the end, or your opposites trying to fill the entire beginning of the article with all the bad stuff at once.

Oh and, ironically, you had some of the negative stuff in there twice. Keeping it chronological fixes that, cutting it down to a single paragraph about his Klan membership, for example, instead of two separate ones. Kaz 03:31, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Don't assume what my POV is. I am no fan of Bryd (and I really disliked him when I was younger, thinking of him as a complete reactionary and Dixiecrat throwback), but I insist on maintaining an encyclopedic tone and style, keeping these partisan controversies in proper perspective. Thanks to the two of you, we have now a hit peace worthy of World Net Daily or the Drudge report more foucsed on digging up mud rather than his actual influence in the Senate, not a serious encyclopedia article. 172 03:37, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

No, what we have is an article not evading the tough stuff. Perhaps you worship the immitation of commercial encyclopedias which have to softpedal the establishment in their articles, in order to get access to current government information...but we don't have to do that, here.

And if you're so into a good article, you should paste your stuff into Word and run it through the spelling/grammar checker. While you're trying to mass-censor the article, you're filling it with poorly composed text.

You also confirm that you have a PoV agenda..."reactionary" is the criticism of a Green/Socialist/Liberal/Progressive, whatever you want to call yourself, which means that the closest thing you have to an ally in the government is the Democratic party, and like it or not Byrd is their eldest member, and treated as some kind of honored statesman by the rest of them...so of course you don't want a balanced approach to the article, which actually includes the good and bad. Fortunately, there are people of your political leaning who won't cast aside their principles to defend Their Man...perhaps you should consider their influence.

As I often say, the obvious difference between the guy who's out to force his PoV and the guy who wants to create a good encyclopedia is whether he rewrites things which he claims to find flawed, or just deletes them to fulfill his actual agenda of censoring the article. We've seen which you started with, and toward which you still lean with your careful reordering to hide negative material out of order at the end.Kaz 04:06, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps you worship the immitation of commercial encyclopedias which have to softpedal the establishment in their articles, in order to get access to current government information...but we don't have to do that, here. So you are a POV troll. Thanks for letting me know. 172 04:13, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Actually, you're proving yourself the PoV censor, here. You're upset because we won't censor the articles to only include the most flattering information. I wonder if you feel the same about Bush...perhaps you should go delete all the unflattering facts from the Dubya article, as well. And hey, eventually Stalin grew out of that mass murder phase, too, why are we including that? Kaz 15:41, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I doubt that Eastern Europeans would appreciate your exploitation of the millions of victims of Stalinism as a rhetorical devise for U.S. partisan rhetoric... Byrd was not notable as a Klansman. Furthermore, it was nearly not as alarming for a poor, white young male to join the KKK 60-65 years ago in southern West Virginia as it is today. The attention that his Klan membership is getting on this page completely disregards the context of the era and his background. It is worthy of mention in his early background (the amount of detail that it receives in authoritative references), but it does not warrant more attention than (say) his role as the top Democrat on Appropriations... BTW, shouldn't serious U.S. conservatives be more concerned about his work to steer billions of dollars in pork-barrel spending to his pet projects in WV than his vigilantism as a youth? 172 19:59, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I would like to know how you earned the title to decide who is "a serious conservative" and who isn't? Also, how is that relavant to whether something is NPOV or not? I don't think your comment has anything to do with what is NPOV, but I am absolutely sure that your comment indicates that you are bias. It doesn't matter if Byrd was a Kleagle 60 years ago or 50 years ago or if was a Kleagle in 2001 when he was talking about "White N****." The fact that he was a Kleagle is the probably one of the most important aspects of his whole career. He even admits that himself when he tells other potential Kleagles not to become Kleagles because the whole Kleagle thing--even if you are like Byrd and think the Kleagle thing is cool--will hurt you because guys like me (the supposedly UNserious conservative) will remind him of his Kleagle days every chance that I get. Byrd was a Kleagle and that is one of the most important aspects of his whole career. He even admits the fact that his Kleagle-ness has held him back to bigger and better things. And don't argue that he didn't want bigger and better things than to be the head Kleagle from West Virginia. He did run for the Presidency and the whole Kleagle surely couldn't have helped. You like the guy, so you want to minimize the Kleagle thing, but it would NOT be NPOV because that's who Byrd is: the oldest, highest ranking Kleagle still in politics. Head Kleagle. Grand Kleagle of the Senate. El Demo Grande Kleagle.----Keetoowah 03:24, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Seeking compromise

A few days ago I started working on what I hope can become a compromise version of some of the more contested parts of this article, at Talk:Robert Byrd/temp; it got lost in the shuffle during the ensuing edit wars and Talk page archiving. Comments and contributions welcome. --Paul 15:25, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I'm disturbed by the extent of his talk page archiving, myself, especially when we were just getting close to a compromise version of the site...but then again, it seems to be his pattern; to come in and wipe everything out, pretending his own petty version is now, suddenly, authoritative. Kaz 15:41, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I haven't been around for a couple of days, so I missed most of the fireworks from 171 and Kaz but I find the edits to be less than satisfactory than what Phenry was working on. At least what he put together seemed to make sense. I still don't believe that Byrd's KKK past can be minimized but 171's self-centered edits don't always seem to be based upon anything other than a desire to control and dominate--which is always annoying.-----Keetoowah 03:31, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This is ridiculous. The author is focusing on Byrd's racist relations more than anything else. This "moderate" viewpoint sickens me and displays how much of a problem wikipedia can be.

You need to grow "some" quick and settle this nonsense.

Factual note - the article states that Byrd set a record for a Senate filibuster with a time of 14 hours. This does not seem to be possible - Strom Thurmond already held that record with a time of 24 hours in 1957. Could someone who knows more or has access to more resources please resolve this?

Filibuster

I believe that the Civil Rights Act may in fact have had the longest floor debate of any bill in U.S. history since it actually had be clotured and lasted a full 57 days. See: http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/minute/Civil_Rights_Filibuster_Ended.htm The filibuster may have the record for longest group filibuster in history. I don't know this for certain. Robert Byrd's individual particpation, however, was not record setting in any case. (Dharlon)

a full third of the information posted about Senator Byrd implicates him as a racist. While some of it is appropriate (i.e. his filibustering of hte Civil Rights Act), some of it is nothing more than Republican slander. Some of the material, such as suggesting that Byrd is racist for opposing a couple of Bush judicial nominees, is nothing more than Republican sludge, and it should be deleted. I tried deleting that section, but it was added by the nutcase who insists on driving his right-wing ideology through this encyclopedia.

Fix this. FreeRepublic is not a real source. Lets use actual documents instead of right wing (or left wing in the case of Demounderground) reactionary nitwits.

Can we please get this settled?

This is getting ridiculous. Robert Byrd is possibly the most distingushed Senator in the History of this nation, and having a giant "neutality disputed" banner on his wikipedia entry is scarring his good name. This needs to be settled.

SMolldrem

"distinguished" only in his rip-off of the citizens of all 49 states not called "West Virginia." Not only is Byrd a former KKK member, he is the reigning King of graft, waste and pork-barreling laws. Something about his personal contribution to the national debt should be included in his bio to make it truly neutral, because it's going to be his legacy for all of us who have to pay for it...

--- He's also pointed out again and again his regrets for having been part of the KKK back then. He's done many other things since then. Might be a good idea to point those out. After all, even Nixon gets credit for top drawer diplomacy and opening China up to the West...as well as that little Watergate affair. As for the pork...well when you've got a state as poor as WV, it makes sense that you might want to develop job and economic opportunities for the people of your state. After all, they're the ones that hired you to do their work for them. Granted things like the Robert Byrd Technology Park in southern WV aren't nearly as important an Alaskan bridge to nowhere or an Iowan rainforest. At least those two have poetic merit...right? Kat

Picture

Okay, where did the picture go? And if by the description its a doctored picture of the Senator in KKK garb, where did the CORRECT picture go?

Picture

Okay, where did the picture go? And if by the description its a doctored picture of the Senator in KKK garb, where did the CORRECT picture go?

    Much like Palpatine, Byrd's true face has now been revealed.

Byrd's Good and Bad are part of history

Like it or not Senator Byrd was a member of the KKK. He made those decisions, and he has to live with them. Senator Byrd has done much good as well, championed for the poor, helped with road funding. He has been partisian to the point of being out of step with people in West Virginia. You have to take the good with the bad. This is history, not politics his bad deeds as well as his good should be reported. You don't get to choose based on political views. --71Demon 01:33, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I wholeheartedly agree that there are good and bad (if we are going to use abstract terminology here) parts of Byrd's life. But "partisian to the point of being out of step with people in West Virginia?" Sure, Bush has won the state twice, but what is the makeup of the state legislature? What percent of the popular vote did Manchin get? Youngamerican 15:56, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Job well done

It is impressive to view the high quality of the article in the context of this emotional debate. When I first heard of Wikipedia's approach of endowing any user with editing authority, I reasoned, 'It will never work'. By and large though, it does work, and that's fascinating.

Beyond that, I wonder how many readers are aware of the irony of further extending the debate on Senator Byrds early racism. To me, the debate has come to resembles a filibuster :-)

--Philopedia 13:10, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

LOL! Good observation. But I remember the "glory days" (so to speak) of filibuster. The nature of the beast was not to talk endlessly about the legislation, but about anything at all. A Senator could read a complete novel in front of the Senate, or his wife's recipes for chicken fried steak--just to keep the bill from coming to a vote. Hopefully Wikipedia content is a little more relevant. -- Cecropia | explains it all ® 14:39, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

We need a new photo.

We need a new photo.

that one is just weird looking.

use this info

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/20/AR2005062000140_2.html

• I think this one is more accurate for the Exalted Cyclops http://asininity.pmachinehosting.com/images/uploads/kuku.jpg

• last I checked Byrd hasn't been part of the Klan for half a century.

and while I don't trust him people (including Klansmen) can change. For proof look into SCJ Hugh Black. 132.241.245.23

Oh, so what you are saying then is it does not matter if someone was once a Nazi or Klansman as long as they advocated hanging to death innocent people from trees years ago. At what point when you stop beating your wife do you stop being a wife beater?? So, since Byrd advocated killing black people in the 1940s and he was defending the Klan in 1958 (at the age of 41) then in 2005 we should ignore those comments and keep Byrd's Wikipedia article whitewashed, so to speak? What hogwash.

Please tell me, oh anon Wikipedian, when do you advocate the point when, in your opinion, it is appropriateto cover up for famous "liberal" Democratic Senators and when it not appropriate--and what is the criteria that you apply when you cover up for the liberals. How do you explain that he was talking about "white n******" as recently as 2001--just 4 years ago? Why should we ignore that? By the way, what proof do you have the Hugo (not "Hugh" as you incorrectly spelled it) Black was a reformed racist?----Keetoowah 30 June 2005 15:12 (UTC)

Link a page bottom for "Independent" links to American Independent Party. VT sen. Jeffers is not, I believe, remotely a member of this. I don't have the energy to change this on 400+ Wiki pages. Ideas? -Erik Hanson

I don't know how to post this photo

http://byrd.senate.gov/biography/byrd_old_senate_chamber.jpg

reinstating section with NPOV

I'm kinda new at this Wikipedia thing, but I'm intent on following the rules and playing fair. I just reinstated a section that I wrote earlier this afternoon after it had been (correctly) deleted for not subscribing to NPOV.

I can't help but wonder, however, why Keetoowah felt it necessary to scrub the entire section, rather than the one offending opinion. For somebody who's a little obsessed with people "whitewashing history," he sure seems more than willing to toss out records that don't suit his interests. 24.197.65.102 08:18, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

Dear 24.197.65.102, if you are really new to Wikipedia then your comments seem strange. I will take your comments at your word and I will assume that you are really "new" to Wikipedia. So, the whole section was and is biased and it is an essay by you defending the old KKK member. These articles are not designed to support the view of one particular Wikipedia member. That is why is was deleted and it will be deleted again. You stated YOUR opinion. That is against Wikipedia policy. Also, if you are really "new" to Wikipedia how can you comment on my editing practices unless you have been around awhile and you are a sock puppet hiding behind a new number. --Keetoowah 13:04, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

I will agree with Keetoowah that it is still a bit too much POV, parituclalry in the first sentence. But at the same time, the amount of support he currently receives from the African-American community certainly is very relevant, particularly in light of his former KKK associations and Byrd's current membership with the Democratic party. Should the Strom Thurmond article not mention the fact that he later supported African-Americans in various ways (e.g. federal court judgeships, hiring them, etc.) because it's just defending him and excusing his former segregationist views? So I think that mention of his approval by the NAACP, etc. certainly is relevant and certainly is proper to include. I don't know that Keetoowah's attitude is helpful, either -- you are not Wikipedia, and I don't see your opinion being more valid or more well-thought-out than 24.197.65.102's I agree the section should be reincluded with edits, but I'll wait to let Keetoowah respond and defer to 24.195.65.102 to do them . Geoff.green 21:33, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

If you've got such a problem with the information I've submitted, feel free to rewrite it in a manner which you find to be acceptable. To focus entirely on the senator's prejudiced past while completely ignoring that he has supported NAACP interests more than the vast majority of the present-day US Senate is disingenuous, one-sided, and wrong-spirited at best. 24.197.65.102 02:27, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Clearly you are biased. You wrote the section in a biased, non-NPOV manner. It had to be reversed. When you wrote it you even admitted that you wrote with goal in mind to defend the old KKK member. Also, just because he gave some money to the MLK memorial does not negate his racist past. As a matter of fact, it seems to be just a stunt to cover up his Keagle past. The vast majority of people have not forgotten his unforgivable past. And only when you were corrected twice did you give up on the clearly biased wording.------Keetoowah 22:32, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

"(No need for a special section, based upon two, tiny, tiny initiatives in a 50 year career)" -- this commentary is obnoxious. Also, "the vast majority of people have not forgotten his unforgiveable past"? What exactly is your source for this? I think most people don't give it much thought, anymore, particularly given the efforts added to the article. I'd be curious to find out what percentage of the A-A vote he got in 2000; I couldn't find it through Google. Geoff.green 02:15, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Dear Geoff.green: Kleagle is a Kleagle forever. You may believe deep down in your heart that my comments are, as you state, obnoxious, but I really don't care. Byrd is a Kleagle. He will always be a Kleagle. You oviously like the Kleagle. You have no hard evidence to back up your point of view either, other than your deep, strong love for the Kleagle. That is your opinion, not based upon any hard evidence as far as I can see. Remember: A Kleagle is Always a Kleagle. That is Klan Law. Keep defending the Kleagle!-----Keetoowah 16:47, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Nice. Now you're calling me a racist. Also nice to see that you consider Klan law to be inviolate. Didn't take you long to get to personal attacks, I see. Geoff.green 16:56, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Let's get something real straight: I never engaged in a personal attack. I just pointed out the obvious. You are defending a Kleagle. That is a fact. You are the one who used the word "racist". I will not apologize for a word that you used. Also, I was engaging in sarcasm. And for that I won't apologize either. If you are embarassed about your defense of the Kleagle then you need to look at yourself, not me. I will not be berated by someone who feels the need to defend a Kleagle. A Kleagle is a member of an organization whose main goal in its existence is to make sure that people of my race do not exist. If you are embarassed to be defending those people then you need to look inside yourself and ask why you feel the need to defend the Kleagle.-----Keetoowah 23:43, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

"I never engaged in a personal attack" -- "You oviously like the Kleagle" "Keep defending the Kleagle!" You know what, Keetoowah, when someone jumps onto Hitler's Wkkipedia page and adds something that might seem positive about him I don't call the contibuter a Nazi who obviously wants to exterminate my people. Hopefully some day you'll grow up, although based on the commentary to my small change in the stem cell article, I find it unlikely. Geoff.green 11:44, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Whatever. I can't remember what the original argument was about. But obviously you feel compelledto get in the last word. You must have control of the situation. Just like when you attempted to turn my criticism into a "personal attack" so that you could use the Wikipedia Star Chamber system to shut me up. Real good. Byrd was a Kleagle and no amount of actions that he takes when he is 118 years old (or whatever the heck he is, is he 130 years old? I don't know. I can't remember. He is just very, very old and the Dems just keep voting for him in goosestep fashion.) is going to change or clean-up his Kleagle past. And you should not use Wikipedia to create a false image for him.-----Keetoowah 20:57, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

I need to get the last word in because you're clearly delusional. "Star Chamber system"? What criticism did I try to turn into a personal attack? I don't know what or who you're talking about, but it's not me. Geoff.green 00:25, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Geoff, I doubt there is any specific exit polling in West Virginia on the subject since 1) the state has few Afro-Americans and 2) Byrd's win was a forgone conclusion. I am, however, trying to find the results for certain precints around Charleston, Huntington, and Beckley, where a large portion of the state's Black community live. When I find them, I will post a link or a reference here. However, based on the voiting paterns of African-Americans for these precints in many recent elections, I would guess that it would show strong electoral support for Byrd and most Democrats from the Black community. Youngamerican 12:46, 23 September 2005 (UTC) Looks like I would have to go to the courthouses in order to get the data, as i cannot find it online. As I work during the hours of operation, unless someone else in the area can make it, your specific inquiry will remain unsolved for now. Youngamerican 14:57, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

New archive

It seems time to create an 'archive 2' for this talk page. Youngamerican 02:12, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Consensus on recent edits/reverts

Personally, I think all of the cited additions add to this article. I like both the new stuff on the book and on questionable alliances in the past. I would agrue to keep most of it and work on reorganizing the article without losing whats here. Youngamerican 04:33, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

I also like the new stuff, but the information on recent racial controversies must stay.-----Keetoowah 12:34, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Agreed. I meant to put it in there, but it was like 2 AM when I did that and I desire to see fair consensus may have been hazed by an intense lack of sleep.Youngamerican 14:19, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

"like many southerners of the time"

I am going to restore the anon's deletions because they were both quite appropriate.

In the first case, I myself, having been around in the pre-civil-rights and civil-rights eras (in a quasi-socialist Brooklyn family) am aware that saying "He, like many southerners of the time, participated in the KKK [my emphasis]" is both unwarranted evaluation and a bit slanderous. First, West Virginia is not a Southern State. It was part of Virginia until the Civil War and in 1863 broke off from Virginia (which a southern state, but not the "deep south"), and joined the Union. I am not arguing that West Virginians by WWII were the soul of cosmopolitanism, but they did not suffer from Reconstruction and did not have the deeply ingrained assumption of black inferiority that characterized the Civil Rights battlegrounds of, say, Alabama and Mississippi. Even in the Deep South, though many admired or simply tolerated the Klan, very many did not and only a distinct minority joined it. But what is damning with Byrd is that he did not simply "join" or "participate," he took it upon himself to organize a chapter in a border state where none existed before, at the same time that President Roosevelt (also a Democrat) championed tolerance. He took enough himself the title of Kleagle and also accepted the elected post of Exalted Cyclops, or leader of his chapter.

Everyone in the U.S. at the time, who was even vaguely aware of the Klan, knew what it was and what it stood for. Whether they admired it as upholding Southern Dignity, or "keeping blacks in their place," or hated it as a violent racist organization, no-one believed that they were a social club that did no more than hang out, drink a few beers, and watch dirty movies.

Was he a racist? Does he still harbor racist sentiments? I have no way of knowing, though, after WWII, he certainly made gratuitous racist comments about the suitability of blacks serving in the Army. OTOH, if he organized a Klan chapter and wasn't a racist, that is certainly not flattering, because he was willing to organize 150 people to put on sheets and hoods to further his political ambitions. Nice man.

But my point is that he doesn't deserve the cloak of "like many Southerners." He wasn't a real Southerner (except maybe in his heart), he did what most "real" Southerners never did, and he doesn't deserve the excuse.

As to the other anon's change, noting that others opposed Condi Rice's nomination on grounds of qualification. First, that is an evaluation that has neither a place in, nor is supported by, the thrust of the article. Second, the section properly notes that this is a charge made by Conervatives, it is not presented as indisputable fact. The question is not whether others opposed Ms. Rice for substantive reasons, it's why Byrd opposed her. If we can present any citation showing that the concept that Byrd did not have a racist bone in his body, present that. -- Cecropia 20:06, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Very well said. I tend to agree with your edits, however, I have a few points to bring up on the subjects that you touched. Basically, it is somewhat incorrect to assume that southern West Virginia is a part of Yankeedom. If you have ever visited the area, you will know that places such as Crab Orchard (Byrd's own little klanton) definately have a southern streak, unlike the decidedly rust belt feel of Huntington, Wheeling, or Charleston. Many of the people in that area are the decendants of Confederate soldiers and never supported the partition of Virginia. Furthermore, Byrd was in fact born in North Carolina, a mid-southern state. That being said, the "everyone else is doing it" apology holds little water and is not acceptable for wikipedia or any other semi-academic source for the reasons that you stated. Furthermore, I believe the article with the deletions still illustrates that CORE's accusations against Byrd are at least partially politically motivated, as was Byrd's opposition to these office-seekers (let's face it, Byrd and CORE both have political agendas). I personally feel the burden of proof falls upon his supporters when discouting his racist past, as I feel that it is the responsibility of his detractors to prove he currently still holds those beliefs, ie by default this article should assume that he was a racist and now is not, unless sourced evidence shows contrary (and it is out there). Consider this to be a concurring opinion of a fellow wikipedian (agreement, but for slightly different reasons). Youngamerican 20:48, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the concurrence and your interesting remarks. Yes, I'm aware that all of West Virginia is not Yankee heaven. I can point you to places above the Mason-Dixon Line where, in my memory, there was a distinct "southern attitude" plus places normally considered "northern" (like Maryland). But my point, as you apparently acknowledge, is that putting Byrd's Klan activities in the general category of "Gee, it's just what them thar Suthin' boys did, they didn't know no better" is a *cough* "whitewash." -- Cecropia 21:06, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

I know I'm commenting a week or so later, but this is not a courtroom. The burden of broof lies neither on CORE or on Byrd. It lies dead in the center. The fact that Byrd was in the KKK and Byrd has used the n-word on TV in recent history makes these racism charges credible for Byrd whereas they would be less credible for say Hillary Clinton, though opposition of any black person will lead to charges of racism. BlueGoose 16:38, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

entire quote?

part of this quote is in the article, part isnt.

"They are much, much better than they've ever been in my lifetime," Byrd said, but added that he believed people talk about race too much.

"My old mom told me, 'Robert, you can't go to heaven if you hate anybody.' We practice that. There are white niggers. I've seen a lot of white niggers in my time. I'm going to use that word. We just need to work together to make our country a better country, and I'd just as soon quit talking about it so much

sources: [1] [2] [3] Lenn0r 01:48, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Anon taking ownership of article

Would the anon who removed massive amounts of unflattering but well-sourced material about Byrd care to identify him/herself and explain shy he/she is threatening to block other editors from an anonmymous IP? -- Cecropia 10:40, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

New entry, April 29, 2006

Under the heading "Participation in the KKK," the final sentence now states: "To this day Senator Byrd is often ridiculed for this misclaculation [sic] he has however remained a quiet supporter of white supremacy." A link is provided to a newspaper article. I don't see anything in the linked article that supports this statement. InvisibleSun 00:37, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Congrats, vandals

You've begotten Wikipedia yet another "friend"/. 204.52.215.107 13:03, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

He is kind of right, wikipedia really shouldn't be used as a citation in research. But that being said, I doubt the opinion of one journalism major in NJ is going to bring the project to a crashing stop. youngamerican (talk) 13:21, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism

It's probably of note that 63.97.189.140 wrote "He is also know as the King of Pork for all the money he has stolen for the stat of W.V." on the bottom of the page and no one noticed...Dark jedi requiem 23:23, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Repeated POV Censorship & Vandalism

It's disgusting that one editor would be so biased as to repeatedly censor true facts in this article. The Democrats **did** make Byrd their 1st in line for the US Presidency in 2001 for the 1st time. The only evidence Byrd is a **former** Klansman is his own claim. If there is any other evidence post it now. --12.74.187.194 04:08, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Since the president pro tem is traditionally the longest-serving majority member of the Senate, it would be incorrect to say the Democrats "installed" Byrd. And it is possible to write something that is technically true but still opinionated. There is no need for us to note that a former klan member was third in line for the presidency. It's a meaningless combination of facts. Would you mind if Wikipedia noted that a former "C" average student commands the most powerful military in the world (it's true)? And personally, President Ted Stevens and President Bob Byrd are both equally scary. Rhobite 04:35, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

There have been many president pro tems who were not the longest serving majority member. In fact, Byrd was before John Stennis' retirement. Why would a non-klansman scare you as much as a klansman? The klansmen was the Democrats' 1st in line for the Presidency not third and the fact that Democrats selected him to be in that situation should be noteworthy both for Byrd supporters and detractors. BTW - I would not mind a mention of President Bush's grades as long as his opponents' grades were mentioned as well. --138.162.0.41 16:31, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

....I really don't know what to say to someone who is so intent on putting in information that...well...just isn't information. I used to be a boy scout. Its only my claim that I am no longer a boy scout so I must still be a boy scout. That's really what you're saying here.

If you'd like to draw that inference about whether or not you are a boy scout you are free to do so, but the Byrd Klan text never makes that conclusion. It only states fact. The text points out the fact no other evidence has been brought out that Byrd has quit the Klan but his claim. If you wanted corroberating evidence you were no longer a Boy Scout all you would need to do is produce membership rolls. Byrd has not done that. He has not even furnished a Klan contemporary of his to confirm his claim. --138.162.5.9 16:38, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

And let me just say, I don't know WHO the hell this guy is. I've never heard of him. I don't give a crap. I'm here to serve the best interests of Wikipedia and that only. --mboverload@ 04:42, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

The anonymous poster is right but I will say this, that ex(?)-Klansman looks like hell. I've changed that to possibly former klansman. --DaveThomas 17:27, 25 May 2006 (UTC)