Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Pixar Theory

The Pixar Theory

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A fan theory based on one article written last month. I have trouble even calling it a theory, since that would suggest more widespread discussion and adjoining writing on the subject. Rather, this is basically a Wikipedia page for a single article on a pop-culture website. Whether or not the article went "viral" doesn't seem important, as it is this page is essentially just an unsourced (links from other websites directing to the article aren't sources) advertisement for one article. Rwiggum (^Talk/_Contrib) 01:47, 27 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Comics and animation-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000^(talk) 03:31, 27 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000^(talk) 03:31, 27 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep That may be so in your eyes, but this article brings up a good point which brings up a good point. Furthermore, it has coverage on multiple websites, which denotes widespread coverage, and some of it could be written out more in the article, as evidenced by the aforementioned article. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 03:40, 27 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as this article recieved some coverage here: 1 2 3 and notability isn't temporary. Taylor Trescott - ^{my talk} + _{my edits} 03:57, 27 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - passes WP:GNG and can't find any reasonably strong failures of WP:NOT. Ansh6 6 6 03:59, 27 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Or merge to "The Pixar Universe" per below. Ansh6 6 6 02:43, 8 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete because the whole thing is really fan fiction. If WP had an article on it that article would be a part of the game, nothing else. BayShrimp (talk) 06:08, 27 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
~~Delete~~ Merge. Asserted notability seems to come primarily from blogs. I agree with BayShrimp. It strikes me as fan fiction that went viral. It might have enough notability to mention in the Pixar article, but I don't see how a standalone article could be written from what's available. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 07:09, 27 August 2013 (UTC) I think there are enough sources to support a merge. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 23:32, 7 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep. Seems to be a recognized meme: [1]. Do we have any guideline for Wikipedia:Notability (Internet memes)? I think we should have at leas an essay on past and current practices for this. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:26, 27 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In the absence of an SNG or an essay, we properly fall back to WP:GNG. Schmidt, ^{Michael Q.} 19:54, 27 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per topic of "The Pixar Theory" meeting WP:GNG... like it or not. Add IO9 [2] to the NON-blog sources offered above. Article and project will benefit from further expansion, over time and through regular editing. Schmidt, ^{Michael Q.} 19:53, 27 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Non notable fan fiction. Koala15 (talk) 21:19, 31 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Fan fiction? Actually, the real-world commercial concept of The Pixar Universe has been around a lot longer and is easily sourcable. The article on "The Pixar Theory" simply addresses the wider concept of the Pixar Universe. Perhaps this article would best if renamed and refocused. Schmidt, ^{Michael Q.} 23:45, 4 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Alt:(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jujutacular (talk) 04:44, 6 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

~~Keep~~ for the reasons outlined above, though I wouldn't strongly object to a move to The Pixar Universe with this as a significant contribution to that "discussion". Stalwart111 05:30, 6 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

See new comment below. Stalwart111 01:38, 8 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, definitely passes GNG, add Cinema Blend ([3]), The Guardian ([4]), BuzzFeed ([5]), The Daily Dot ([6]), Comic Vine ([7]), Geekosystem ([8]) to the list of the sources. Cavarrone 05:52, 6 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that a move to The Pixar Universe or Pixar Universe after a "keep" makes good sense and that as a topic is both a suitable accompaniment article to Pixar and will benefit the project by being expanded per available souces at the new location. Cheers. Schmidt, ^{Michael Q.} 17:58, 6 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Those are not very high quality sources. I still don't see notability established to my satisfaction. The citation to The Guardian is a blog post, for example. It looks like I'm in the minority here, though. I'm not sure how I feel about a rename. I'd probably leave that to a different discussion. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 19:56, 6 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

About The Guardian blog, you should distinguish between self-published blogs, which are usually unreliable, and newspaper and magazine blogs written by professional journalists, which are usually reliable. Cavarrone 20:11, 6 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed. I'm sure that NinjaRobotPirate was simply unaware that certain types of blogs are eminently acceptable. No doubt the closer will simply disregard an incorrect assertion made in innocence.Schmidt, ^{Michael Q.} 23:16, 6 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I'm quite familiar with that policy. I never said the source was self-published or that policy forbids the use of news blogs, so I don't understand where your post is coming from. However, I did say that blog posts are not sufficient to convince me of notability, and this is a blog post... in a news blog. Thus, still not sufficient to convince me of notability. Note: this is my opinion, and thus it may differ from yours. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 00:37, 7 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I suspected as much and was simply being kind in offering you a way to regroup with dignity. Your choice to concentrate on just the one offered source makes it appear that you are ignoring that the guideline acceptable WP:NEWSBLOG was not the only source offered. And if you are aware of applicable guidelines and still choose to promote a stance that runs contrary to existing consensus and community standards, that's on you... and good luck. Schmidt, ^{Michael Q.} 09:19, 7 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think we should be a bit more concerned about the consensus of "outside" opinion of Wikipedia. It was originally founded with the idea of being a respected and trustworthy source of serious information. Good luck with that. Although the other way is maybe more fun. :-) -Kitfoxxe (talk) 19:12, 7 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

~~Delete~~ Merge to a potential article on "Pixar Universe". or maybe even better "Pixar worldview." By WP:Common sense and WP:WP is an encyclopedia. People look to WP as a source of serious information. Our articles are often cited, or copied uncited by major news media. In this case the original essay was not serious. Is anyone seriously proposing that the artists at Pixar have some master guidelines to make their stories interconnect, rather than just that they sometimes joke around and make references to other Pixar stories -- as they do to other pop culture? The topic is not serious, the original source and the sources commenting on it are not serious, it does not belong in an encyclopedia where naive people might take it seriously. Kitfoxxe (talk) 19:12, 7 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- That reply (and frankly this entire AfD) smacks of WP:I don't like it. It may not be serious, but it's got enough coverage to pass WP:GNG. Is there any part of WP:NOT you can specifically point to? Ansh6 6 6 19:26, 7 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  - Quite true, I don't like that fact that WP editors think this is a suitable topic. I am a MAJOR Pixar fan and I think the topic is a lot of fun, but not encyclopedia stuff. Let me try to think policy-wise... None of the sources are really a secondary source giving information about a real "Pixar Theory" or "Pixar Universe." They are clever fans and comedians making jokes and joking about each others' jokes. There is no real secondary source to fullfil GNG. Kitfoxxe (talk) 19:36, 7 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
delete no indication of any lasting significance or coverage - merely fluff story filler of the day. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 19:47, 7 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You want policy. You can't handle policy. (I was joking there.) Seriously though, our article starts out: "The Pixar Theory is a thesis by Jon Negroni that theorizes that every character that is created by Pixar lives within the shared universe. The theory was derived..." Please provide a secondary source that says the "Pixar Theory" is a thesis or a theory? To me this implies it was seriously proposed as possibly true by Mr. Negroni. Kitfoxxe (talk) 19:51, 7 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

And since Mr. N. is a living person WP:BLP can be invoked as well. :-) Kitfoxxe (talk) 19:55, 7 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As long as it remains well and properly sourced and not in any way defamatory toward Jon Negroni as a person, I think we're safe under WP:BLP considerations. Schmidt, ^{Michael Q.} 20:24, 7 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: Preceding the Negroni thesis by a decade, the concept of there being a "Pixar Universe" has been noted in media since at least 2003. So I have been working on User:MichaelQSchmidt/The Pixar Universe and seek input for it either being acceptable itself as a separate article or perhaps merged into Pixar... and in either instance becoming a possible target for The Pixar Theory. Schmidt, ^{Michael Q.} 20:24, 7 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Your article is much better since it presents multiple views on the issue in a fair way. I haven't checked out your sources but from what you have I would suggest you post it, and I would defend it in an AfD. Kitfoxxe (talk) 05:38, 8 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. This is a fluff story resulting in a couple whimsical online articles a few weeks ago. The referenced articles themselves don't actually discuss the "theory" in any depth (which is rather amazing given their length); in fact they don't do much more than note the existence and author of the concept and mention that it holds that the Pixar characters share a common universe. Since we're not the news, and since WP:N requires more substantial coverage, this article should be deleted. —Psychonaut (talk) 21:09, 7 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. There is no significant coverage past the standard "omg this is interesting let's run a story on it" from a few news orgs and then the "omg let's not let the others run it without us doing such" from the rest. Nonnotable. ~Charmlet ^-talk- 21:27, 7 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to relevant articles. Yes, there are a handful of weak sources that use this phrase. However, its notability is entirely contingent on the well-known films it describes. It is properly one small portion of the potential body of literary interpretation and criticism of these films, and showcasing it by itself in a separate article is essentially (though unintentionally) a POV fork. The result of the merge should not be to remove the information it contains - indeed, it might end up copied a few times at the target locations, though hopefully in a somewhat more concise form. Wnt (talk) 21:42, 7 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete insufficient notable coverage yet. Rklawton (talk) 22:59, 7 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. It's a fan theory that was "interesting" to be pointed to by numerous sources during an otherwise slow news period, but there's been no enduring coverage of it. If anything, it could potentially be an internet phenomena but even then it fails to be shown how it has any persistent staying power. As others have noted, if these other sources even weighed in on the reasonableness of the theory, that may be something to keep, but otherwise this is just yet another interesting thing shared rapidly across the Internet. --01:04, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
Keep. meets GNG. -- Aunva6^{talk - contribs} 01:21, 8 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to The Pixar Universe with Schmidt's draft as a base. I still think there is an argument for keeping this but I'm genuinely surprised we don't have an article about the broader universe itself which, as Schmidt's draft demonstrates, has received significant coverage in reliable sources. Create that article and merge/redirect this material across. Stalwart111 01:38, 8 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as passes WP:GNG. →Davey2010→→Talk to me!→ 03:08, 8 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]