Talk:Bob Brozman

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
Stub	This article has been rated as Stub-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Musicians.

"ref does not speculate as to reason or cause of death"

From the cited article: In 1980 Brozman was involved in a serious car crash and, according to Thomas, "suffered severe pain in his spine and his extremities ever since". A year and a half ago, Brozman told him he was unable to play Hawaiian guitar. "He said 'My hand won't do it' ... and he was the greatest Hawaiian player since Tau Moe." While recording his last album, Fire in the Mind, "there were times when he just had to stop, and it was incredibly painful for him". According to Thomas, Brozman "took his own life. He said he was dissolving before his own eyes, and he was devastated by the loss. He struggled to imagine his life without an instrument in his hands." 69.89.111.229 (talk) 01:05, 1 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry but that's not good enough. The obit does not say he committed suicide for that reason, you are drawing an inference that that was the reason. I will revert.--ukexpat (talk) 01:39, 1 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. The relationship is clear to any reasonable person. But you're determined to be that kind of person, so you win. Hooray for you! But it does say he took his own life. I will re-insert that. 69.89.111.229 (talk) 01:46, 1 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am just applying policy. We cannot infer anything that is not explicit in a source, especially where BLP applies as it does here (recently dead person).--ukexpat (talk) 02:03, 1 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You are creating a synthesis of what you're reading in the source. That's the problem. It's up to the reader to make that association or reach that conclusion, not to us. §FreeRangeFrog^croak 02:07, 1 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry guys, the obit does indeed say he took his life. It's near the bottom. (I don't know if the paper itself it considered reliable, but what the IP is saying is correct, the article says he did take his life, it's not inferred or synth'ed, but rather stated plainly. KoshVorlon. We are all Kosh ... 16:50, 1 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The question is not whether the source says he took his life, of course it does. The issue was with the previous wording, which was drawing conclusions from what is in the article as to why. So your wording is actually perfect, since it's completely neutral. §FreeRangeFrog^croak 17:42, 1 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In fact the article said that even before User:KoshVorlon's edit.--ukexpat (talk) 20:43, 1 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Post-death allegations

This sentence has been removed several times. I have replaced it as it is properly cited. 173.206.86.241 (talk) 01:13, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry. A link to a single blog article, which itself references nothing, does not count as "properly cited". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.99.120.145 (talk) 08:37, 19 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The given citation clearly states that allegations have emerged. This article makes no claims about the accuracy of the allegations, it merely states they exist. As they do. 98.243.194.93 (talk) 02:28, 22 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well I hope for your sake that, when you die, some clown with a blog doesn't accuse you of abusing minors. Your family would love to see that as the highlight of your wikipedia article, I'm sure.

At the very least can you mention in the article how completely unsubstantiated these allegations are? The way it stands, a casual reader may actually take them seriously, instead of understanding that this is the rant of one single blogger out there in bloggerland who has no evidence or anything but may very well have a grudge or an axe to grind for all we know.

So I suggest the following wording : "After his death, one blogger made an unsubstantiated allegation that that he had been accused of sexual abuse of minors, including the daughter of one of his managers"

The article has been locked otherwise I would fix it myself. Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.99.111.45 (talk) 12:57, 31 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It's not a comment by "one blogger", his former manager Gary Atkinson has made specific allegations, and Duck Baker (who knew Brozman for many years and lived in the same area) has written accounts of his personal communication after Bob's death with 3 different families whose children are alleged to be victims of Brozman. This is in addition to whatever has been written by bloggers or web forum posters (I'm not necessarily saying the ones I'm mentioning are a complete list of specific accusations made by people under their real names, they are simply two that I know about, which suffice to debunk the above claim.)