Talk:Cuba

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Economy

I'd like to remove the sentence at the end about what the revolution caused for the private media. It isn't about how the economy is at present. Teemu Ruskeepää 14:19, 30 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestions

Discussion management

Umm... I have commented many times on Talk:Cuba but now I can't find any of my comments, perhaps due to them being moved to archives. Nevertheless, I can't get to them even via my contributions links. I think that rather than burying old discussions into an inaccessible arcive, the list should be organized. Make a categorial order which deepens in an orderly fashion. I've thought of a basic root of all the present headings in the article and a more general "suggestions" tree. I've just created a new economy heading according to my idea about the economy heading in the article. This way the discussion could expand while keeping everything in sight. Teemu Ruskeepää 14:27, 30 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed paragraphs

Ultramarine and BruceHallman have agreed that the below paragraphs are acceptable, in keeping with the policy to keep controversial material away from the main page and onto subarticles. I have added the disclaimer (before the Castro revolution) to the health section, which I hope means that less historically motivated users do not misunderstand the context as appeared to be the case before.

Health

(remove WHO stats) The Cuban government operates a national health system and assumes full fiscal and administrative responsibility for the health care of its citizens. Historically, Cuba has long ranked high in numbers of medical personnel and has made significant contributions to World Health since the 19th Century. According to World Health Organization statistics, life expectancy and infant mortality rates in Cuba have been comparable to Western industrialized countries since such information was first gathered in 1957 (before the Castro revolution).

See main article Public health in Cuba

Education

Historically, Cuba has had some of the highest rates of education and literacy in Latin America, both before and after the revolution. All education is free to Cuban citizens including university education. Private educational institutions are not permitted. School attendance is compulsory from ages 6 to 16 and all students, regardless of age or gender, wear school uniforms with the color denoting grade level. Primary education lasts for six years, secondary education is divided into basic and pre-university education. Higher education is provided by universities, higher institutes, higher pedagogical institutes, and higher polytechnic institutes. The Cuban Ministry of Higher Education also operate a scheme of Distance Education which provides regular afternoon and evening courses in rural areas for agricultural workers.

See main article Education in Cuba

These two paragraphs can replace the present sections meaning that the page can be unlocked to registered users. --Zleitzen 13:23, 30 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I Agree. Teemu Ruskeepää 16:41, 30 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Military

Where an earth is the military section? I found a Wikipedia version at [1] Teemu Ruskeepää UPDATE: I found it at Military_of_Cuba, but I think I should be linked here. Teemu Ruskeepää 15:29, 30 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You're right Teemu, good spot. Here's my proposed paragraph for the military section--Zleitzen 16:22, 30 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Under Fidel Castro, Cuba became a highly militarized society. From 1975 until the late 1980s, massive Soviet military assistance enabled Cuba to upgrade its military capabilities. Since the loss of Soviet subsidies Cuba has dramatically scaled down the numbers of military personnel, from 235,000 in 1994 to about 60,000 in 2003. The government now maintains a state security apparatus under the Ministry of Interior, spending roughly 1.8% of GDP on military expenditures.

See Also Military of Cuba

Ok, that's good. Teemu Ruskeepää 16:38, 30 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmmmmmmmmm I see Teemu has forgotten the Militia. El Jigue 5-30-06

Apparently my documented comments on the composition of the forces in the attack on the palace has been consigned to the archives, thus the "truck" jpg still says Directorio when in reality the forces were mainly Autentico. El Jigue 5-30-06

El, Jigue - I've made a note of a number of your points here: User:Zleitzen/Cuba history sandbox to be looked at when the page is unlocked. I'll change the truck jpg when that happens.--Zleitzen 23:23, 30 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The first sentence of the Military History paragraph makes no sense: Cuba is not a society, per se, but rather a country, and very rarely is a society militarized—perhaps a geographical area, but not a society. To make the sentence less ambiguous and more neutral, I suggest: "Under Fidel Castro, Cuba experienced a rapid expansion of its military." "Militarized society" evokes images of soldiers marching through the streets and supressing civilians with an iron fist. I don't think it is the intent of the sentence to characterize Cuba as a police state. If it is, then that's not a neutral statement. -- WGee 03:28, 31 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fair question WGee. Though here is a "Militarized society" source [2]. Also it should be noted that the Committee for the Defense of the Revolution (CDR) was in an internal military wing - plus the Military Units to Aid Production (UMAPS), that were designed to reeducate counter revolutionaries, gays, etc. About two-thirds of the members of the party’s original Central Committee were military officers or veterans of the guerrilla struggle - and the FAR is probably still the most consistently powerful institution ahead of the Communist Party and so on. In this sense Cuba 1959-89(ish) was no different to most other Latin American countries which could also be described as "Militarized societies".--Zleitzen 04:00, 31 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, to be honest, a Military History section should not exist. All of these points about the build-up of Cuba's military have to be included in the main history section—in their historical context. You don't find many history textbooks that discuss military history out of the context of political change or war. -- WGee 23:50, 31 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There is a military section in the pages of the United Kingdom, the United States, France etc and almost all other nation pages.--Zleitzen 23:55, 31 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There is a distinct difference between a military history section and a section that discusses the current state of the military. And since those articles are not featured, they cannot be used as archetypes, anyway. -- WGee 02:32, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Go ahead and write the military section the way you see fit, WGee - if you know more about Cuba's military structure. It matters little to me whether it's in or not - but something has to appear on the page to link it to the page Military of Cuba. Featured articles such as Australia and People's Republic of China carry such a section so we're not pushing the boat out here. As for the history, it's almost impossible to describe Cuba's military without referring to the Soviet past - it was the Soviets that provided Cuba's current military apparatus.--Zleitzen 03:15, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry, all this time I thought you writing a Military history section, so you can disregard my last two comments. I'm still very concerned, however, with the fact that your proposed paragraph does not cite sources; nor does the main article. WGee 20:33, 2 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Review my comments above where I provide a source.--Zleitzen 03:13, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fabio Grobart forgotten

One notices that Fabio Grobart agent of the third international has been essentially erased from Cuban history, even if Castro did talk about his massive contributions to the foundation of the Cuban communist party (Third international, Stalinist). Amazing how Castro hogs credit even from this own teachers [3]. El Jigue 5-30-06

Thats sick how he does that...by the way men death tolls are quite high

Opening paragraph

Hispaniola contains two countries

As a critic clearly noted the island of Hispaniola has a greater population than Cuba; however, Hispaniola contains two countries Haiti and Dominican Republic. Just change island to country. El Jigue 5-30-06

Agree EJ. This shows the problem of letting administrators edit protected articles like that. -- Beardo 02:26, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I do not agree with EJ. Hispaniola is not a country at all, and thus can not be called so! It is right to mantain the word island because of its geographic nature, respecting the proper terminology. Gabriel

Ay vey! Gabriel Please read my first remark. Haiti and Santo Domingo may share an island but they are divided by a massive mountain range Pico Duarte is about 10,000 feet high and two different languages. Even the Tainos considered Haiti which means mountains distinct from Quiskeya which is a name the Dominicanos like to call their part of the Island. El Jigue 6-7-06

I think the point is that Cuba is the most populous country in the Caribbean - this is the point of note which should be mentioned in the introduction. The fact that it is the second most populous island is of (dare I say) secondary importance. -- Beardo 23:17, 7 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Probably my fault - I originally and mistakenly wrote that it was the most populated island in the Caribbean. Forgot about Hispaniola - being two entities. tut tut.--Zleitzen 23:27, 7 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Internet in Cuba

The matter of control of the internet arose in the latest OAA (Organization of American States) conference "At Washington's insistence, the final Declaration of Santo Domingo, which will be issued when the conference ends today, notes that the Internet, without political censorship, can develop democracies. To underscore the point, Zoellick reminded the General Assembly that Cuba ``has the highest controls on the Internet." [4] El Jigue 6-7-06

Pseudo democracies under tigher control

Senator Lugar refers to pseudo democracies [5], which now, given recent past history of turning into real democracies, are under far tighter control. However, in this article Cuba is specifically excluded from this category. El Jigue 6-9-06