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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Clarityfiend (talk | contribs) at 00:11, 19 November 2013 (→Requested move). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Title

The article should be under Cairo Station, which is what it is overwhelmingly known as in English; "also known as Cairo Station" is actively misleading. As far as I can tell, nobody but IMDb calls it "The Iron Gate." Languagehat (talk) 01:22, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Chahine's official website, The Guardian's obituary] and others agree. I've tagged Cairo Station for speedy deletion so this can be moved there. Clarityfiend (talk) 03:13, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
On second thought, maybe this article should be renamed Cairo Station (film), and Cairo Station redirected to Ramses Station, with a hatnote to the film. Thoughts? Clarityfiend (talk) 08:42, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Excellent idea, I totally agree. Languagehat (talk) 15:17, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The Iron Gate → Cairo Station (film) – This is the English title most often used by reliable sources. In particular, director Youssef Chahine's official website (as linked above) lists it (in his filmography) as Cairo Station, as does the 50th anniversary DVD release, The Hollywood Reporter, The New York Times obituary, Washington Post obituary, the BBC, The Guardian (a film review, not the obituary linked above), Empire Magazine, Chicago Reader, Time Out, the Harvard Film Archive, books such as Remembering Cosmopolitan Egypt: Literature, culture, and empire and Arab Cultural Studies: History, Politics and the Popular, an article in the Journal for Cultural Research, the movie poster, etc. The list goes on and on. The same cannot be said for The Iron Gate. Clarityfiend (talk) 07:55, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose per WP:NATURALDIS. There are three titles that are frequently used in English language sources: The Iron Gate, Cairo Station and Bab el hadid (the native title). Here is a sample:
  1. IMDB - World-wide (English title) The Iron Gate
  2. Rotten Tomatoes - Bab el hadid (Cairo Station) (The Iron Gate)
  3. Marrakech International Film Festival - BAB EL HADID (The Iron Gate)
  4. TCM - Cairo Station, known as The Iron Gate in some regions
  5. Cannes Film Festival - The Iron Gate
  6. Rotterdam Film Festival - Bab el hadid/The Iron Gate
  7. Newsweek - Bab el Hadid (The Iron Gate)
  8. Timout Dubai - The Iron Gate (1958) ... A vintage Egyptian drama, also known as Cairo Station
  9. Saudi Gazette - Bab Al-Hadid (‘The Iron Gate’)
  10. University of California - Cairo Station (The Iron Gate) (Bab al-Hadid)
While Cairo Station tends to be the preferred title in American sources, both The Iron Gate and Bab el hadid both enjoy widespread usage. It is not necessary to move the article to a disambiguated title when there are two acceptable alternatives per WP:NATURALDIS:
"If it exists, choose an alternative name that the subject is also commonly called in English, albeit not as commonly as the preferred-but-ambiguous title ...If natural disambiguation is not possible, add a disambiguating term in parentheses, after the ambiguous name."
If the proposed move had been to Cairo Station without the disambiguator then the rename may have been a bit more compelling, but it is unnecessary to move the article to a disambiguated form of the US release title, especially when the native title is available to us as well. Betty Logan (talk) 10:35, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Why is the request to move to Cairo Station (film) and not just Cairo Station? I'm not seeing any other topic with this title. If we do not need the disambiguation term, then natural disambiguation would not be a reason to oppose. Also, while it seems like either title has been used, I am noticing that the film is titled Cairo Station in home media (DVD is titled that and not The Iron Gate) and for broadcasting purposes (at tvguide.com, Cairo Station comes up where The Iron Gate does not). I think that with evidence for either title, the better one to use is the one that would be publicly recognized. Erik (talk | contribs) 15:20, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The literal translation of Bab el hadid appears to be "the iron gate". However, that doesn't mean it's the preferred title in English. The instances listed by Logan either have Arabic ties (e.g. the Newsweek article is written by a Moroccan novelist and poet) or are secondary alternatives. As I noted in the section above, I believe Cairo Station should direct to Ramses Station with a hatnote to the film. I don't understand all this distaste for "(film)". A lot of films have dabs. Clarityfiend (talk) 00:08, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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