Weak Keep some examples of notable pieces of music that uses this key would definitely improve the article a great deal. But the key exists and a modest article on it seems suitably encyclopedic. Gwernol18:16, 13 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I would say keep if I thought there were actually some verifiable sources or examples of pieces in this key, but do they actually exist? David L Rattigan18:19, 13 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Think you meant a Rachmaninoff Etude, by the way. Rachmaninoff's Concertos are in F-sharp minor, C minor, D minor, and G minor. TheProject22:41, 13 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Did some more research. The two Chopin works I've covered in my comment below, and looking through Amazon's collections of recordings of either work should verify that the Scherzo is in B-flat minor/D-flat major and the Prelude is in D-flat major. The Rachmaninoff work doesn't exist -- his Op. 8 is a trio elegante, and the work on the CD in the link I believe refers to Scriabin's Op. 8 No. 10, which is in D-flat major, according to B&N[2] and Amazon[3], and I suspect it's similar to the two Chopin works with modulation in key. As for the Schubert quartet, look at the cover image carefully: the title card says "String Quartets in E flat and D minor". A look at List of compositions by Schubert verifies indeed that the Death and the Maiden Quartet (Schubert) is indeed in D minor. So we're again left without any piece in the supposed key of D-flat minor.
Strong delete. Having played both pieces, I'm quite certain that Chopin's Schzero Op. 31 is in B-flat minor (alternatively, in D-flat major, the key in which it ends), and his Prelude Op. 28 No. 15 in D-flat major, and I've never seen anything suggest otherwise. The Prelude has a section in C-sharp minor, which would be equivalent to the supposed D-flat minor. I've never seen this section written in flats, however, and I don't think the fact that there's one section of the Prelude that goes into a key, that, if written in flats, would constitute D-flat minor, is enough of a reason for saying that the Prelude is in D-flat minor. Furthermore, I can't see any place where the Scherzo goes into anything remotely approaching D-flat minor. The closest thing one can find is a section in E major, equivalent to F-flat minor, the relative key to D-flat minor. Unless there's an actual manuscript edition somewhere that suggests that these pieces were originally written in an eight-flat key signature, I'm inclined to dismiss this as a hoax. (I can't speak for the Rachmaninoff or Schubert pieces.) TheProject22:36, 13 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I am changing my vote also. I did the same search and found a surprising number of pieces in this key. Although I am skeptical whether anyone editing the article will find actual references to people writing about the key and its qualities, in theory it could be expanded. David L Rattigan19:09, 13 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: those keys all technically "exist" (i.e. can be written in standard sharps and flats notation) within the circle of fifths. D-flat minor, however, is a non-existent key that involves being written using double-flats. See circle of fifths -- it will explain it better than I can. TheProject22:39, 13 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Here, let me explain. In music, major keys start from C major and either add sharps or add flats, up to a maximum of seven (there are seven named white keys in an octave with which to make sharp or flat). Minor keys are related to major keys in a one-to-one correspondence and are arrived at by taking the major key, going down three steps (not three letters) on a keyboard, and changing the "major" to "minor.
Starting from C major and adding sharps and going up a fifth every time one adds another sharp, one arrives at the key of G major, which has one sharp (F sharp), then the key of D major, which has two (F and C sharps), then A major (FCG), E major (FCGD), B major (FCGDA), F-sharp major (FCGDAE), and C-sharp major (FCGDABB). After this, there are no more keys going up, as all named white keys ABCDEFG have already had a sharp applied to them. Therefore, there is no key that is a fifth above C-sharp major, which would technically be G-sharp major.
The minor key corresponding to C major is A minor, and the minor keys corresponding to the major keys I've just listed by adding sharps are E minor, B minor, F-sharp minor, C-sharp minor, G-sharp minor, D-sharp minor, and A-sharp minor. Again, there is no minor key that is a fifth above A-sharp minor, as this would involve an eighth sharp, and there are only seven notes to sharp.
Adding flats brings a key down by a fifth every time another flat is added. Starting from C major and going down, one arrives at the key of F major, which has one flat (B flat), then the key of B-flat major (B and E flats), E-flat major (BEA), A-flat major (BEAD), D-flat major (BEADG), G-flat major (BEADGC), and C-flat major (BEADGCF). Again, after this, all named white keys ABCDEFG have already had a flat applied to them. Therefore, there is no key with an eighth flat that is a fifth below C-flat major (which would be F-flat major).
The minor keys corresponding to these keys are, respectively, D minor, G minor, C minor, F minor, B-flat minor, E-flat minor, and A-flat minor. The key that would theoretically follow next is a fifth down from A-flat minor, which is D-flat minor -- the subject of the article in question. The issue is that D-flat minor would involve an eighth flat.
Basically, the imaginary keys that have eighth or more flats -- in this case D-flat minor -- are nothing more than that: imaginary. Hence why this key is not the same as the other keys listed by Lambiam. Hope that all made sense. TheProject23:19, 13 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I was a music minor in college. I'm aware of how the typical scale structure works, and I'm still not at all bothered by this article. My puzzlement is why people are looking to delete this, as it's otherwise legitimate, albeit obscure and little-used, as well as not entirely technically sound. --badlydrawnjefftalk23:22, 13 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, sorry. You looked a bit confused. :-) Uh, I don't see the basis of your opposition, still. It's not a legitimate key. TheProject23:28, 13 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
