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December 4

Store stock inventory

How do stores generally stock products? Do they order based on the expected demand or do they order less or more? Does it depend on the type of product like whether its food or a tv? And why is it that at launch,when popular products sell out, the amount of time taken to restock varies. For example, I've noticed Apple restocks quite quickly after a launch, a few weeks at most. But in comparison, games console launches such as PS4 and Xbox One are expected to be out of stock until 2014. How do these processes work? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Clover345 (talk • contribs) 00:49, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Supply chain management might be a good place to start. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:08, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The specific problem with videogame consoles is a subtle one. Most game consoles are sold at a loss. They literally cost more to make than their retail price. The manufacturers make their money by selling the license to write or sell games for the console - which indirectly results in more costly games. Parents frequently don't spot this trick and buy their kids the cheap, shiney new game consoles for Xmas - only to discover that games are now $70 instead of the $20 they could really sell for.

Open for the rest of this reply that is somewhat off topic

This leads the manufacturers into an interesting little chicken-and-egg situation.

In order to sell any consoles at all on day #1, the console manufacturer has to have a reasonable number of games that run well on it. But in order for the games companies to invest years writing games specifically for it without knowing in advance how popular the console will turn out to be, they have to have some assurance that enough machines will sell in the first few days for them to turn a profit on their games. This pushes the manufacturer to make more consoles for day #1. The game manufacturers who sign up for day #1 releases are taking a risk because they don't know how well the consoles will sell - but they have the promise of having a large share of the market for games for that console because there aren't that many titles out there at the outset. Hence they push for exclusivity - they want their 1st person zombie shooter to be the ONLY 1st person zombie shooter in the stores over Xmas.

However, there is a cash-flow issue. If a console manufacturer sells a LOT of consoles but there aren't many games selling to bringing in the license revenue - then they're deeply in the hole. This pushes them to make consoles in smaller batches, gradually ramping up the numbers as their income from games sales goes up.

So one side are pushing for more console sales and fewer games, while the other wants fewer console sales and more games. Who actually wins this tussle is horribly complicated.

Worse still, there are economies of scale and technology advances to consider. As the console gets older, sales volume increases and the underlying technology gets easier to make, the cost to manufacture them goes down. This allows the manufacturer to start making a profit on the console itself. Hence, selling consoles a year or two after the initial launch is VASTLY more profitable (well, it actually *is* profitable - as opposed to loss-making - so it's infinitely more profitable!!). So you really want to keep a pent-up demand for the machine that will be satisfied later, when the machines can be sold for a profit rather than saturating the market at the outset when you're basically losing money.

So there is a continual tension between convincing software companies to write games by selling lots of consoles - and avoiding the wrath of your finance office by selling too many of them. The result is a delicate dance with results that vary from company to company.

Nintendo have a reputation for making cheaper, simpler consoles - and they often do make a small profit on each one they sell - which means that they typically don't run out of them after massive lines of people rush out to buy them. Microsoft have deep pockets - but not infinitely deep. Sony are in a much tighter financial position - so they start out more slowly.

When Nintendo and Sony were fighting the battle for hand-held games, Nintendo were making their machines for a profit and a typical Nintendo owner bought 12 games. Sony were making a loss on every one they sold - and their customers bought (on average) 2.5 games. This caused Sony lots of pain...they actually didn't want to sell more consoles!

With Apple, it's a different matter. Their mobile machines (iPhone, iPad) are tied up with complicated telecommunications deals - and they sell almost everything through their own storefront. Also, people buy phones in order to get the sexxier look, the lighter weight, the sharper screen with the curved corners...and the longer battery life - they are more like jewellery for some people. They aren't tied into a particular set of software applications. On launch day, iPhone(N) customers are mostly going to be buying software that was written for the iPhone(N-1) - so the whole tie-in with software developers doesn't happen.

The whole way that these devices are sold is not at all simple. Hardly anything like that is now sold for what-it-cost-to-make plus profit-margin...it's all tied into services and software and media purchases and networking arrangements.

Even things like printers are often sold at a loss with the profit being made through subsequent ink cartridge sales.

It's only a matter of time until we have cars that are sold for $1000 that have square filler caps and only run on "special" $10/gallon gasoline. :-)

SteveBaker (talk) 02:45, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, this is actually an excellent question and one I feel has an answer that may be helpful to the OP. In the retail industry not all retailers are equal, however with the advent of Wal-Mart the inventory control systems are beginning to change drastically. What was once mostly a "pull system", where orders for inventory are filled by customer order and keep excess to a minimum, is changing to a "push system" where an attempt to guess at customer demand is made. Of course there is the "Push-Pull system" which attempts to do both and something I was actually unaware of. I have to wonder if that actually works, but the debate on the whole system of "push" has been criticized for having some rather bad consequences on manufacturers. See this source for more details on inventory control.--Mark Miller (talk) 08:58, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Also, on the issue of out of stock game consuls and games, that is actually a manufacturer issue where the expected demand is not or cannot always be determined. Therefore when a launch runs out and you see that stock remain empty for several months...it may not always be a matter of bad inventory control, but the manufacturer only supplying a limited quantity until they determine if demand is greater or as expected. It is not always a matter of the retailer being able to order, but the manufacturer not able (or sometimes willing) to supply the product in a timely manner. Sometime that is by mistake and sometimes by design.--Mark Miller (talk) 09:10, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

And they may intentionally create a scarcity of the game console to make them seem more valuable, and keep the price artificially high. This is the same trick used by De Beers to keep diamond prices artificially high. StuRat (talk) 09:54, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, they "may" do that, may they? If you have a reference for such a claim, please provide it. Otherwise, please refrain from posting such unwarranted speculation. --Viennese Waltz 11:00, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Console makers are engaged in monopolistic competition, and the Monopolistic_competition notes they have limited market power (meaning the power to price their product above marginal cost). This can only be achieved by limiting demand. I haven't seen any studies on whether this actually results in increased revenue. OldTimeNESter (talk) 17:25, 9 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It's worth remembering the PS4 was only released in November 15, the Xbox one a week later. Out of stock (actually limited stock) until 2014 may only mean for 5-7 weeks. The iPad mini retina which was released November 12 is similarly in short supply and one would think and sources seem to confirm this may remain the case until next year. [1]

If you read discussion surrounding the iPad mini retina shortages or really many such shortages, another factor which is frequently mentioned are component supply issues. There will obviously depend on the product. (To give an example, the SOC for the Xbox and PS4 are AMD. I like AMD but they no longer have their own fabs and it's fair to say are doing a lot less better than Apple or any of the SOC suppliers Apple has used in the recently and unsurpisingly this has often been reflected in their relationships with theo fabs. So their ability to meet the demands would likely be lower. The SOC is also more complex/costly than those in Apple's mobile product lines. IIRC the PS3 also had problems initally allegely due to supply problems with the blue lasers needed on ther BluRay drives.)

Also consider that overall and despite the lower level of miniaturisation, the PS4 and Xbox One are relatively high cost and I expect high complexity (i.e. more difficult to manufacture/take longer), products compared to most of the Apples products. (Don't go by sale price, as SB has said this is misleading. Despite costing $700 or whatever, the iPhone 5s is estimated to cost about $200 to make as with most iPhones I've ever seen [2]. The Xbox One and PS4 are sold at something close to cost [3] [4].)

There may also be timing issues. All these products are clearly intended to be available before the Christmas season. When did the design of the consoles finalise and them enter production versus the Apple products [5]? You may think since the consoles will last several years and the Apple products will be replaced next year, Apple can less afford to finalise their products too soon but actually it's more likely the reverse since going with something wrong in some way could easily mean the console makers are stuck with a crappy console for the next few years but mobile devices don't actually aim to be cutting edge since if anything, Apple has shown specs aren't the end all.

Compared with consoles, there are already many people predicting the Xbox is screwed because of it's relatively worse specs/performance and their concentration on the the general living room box market rather than games [6] [7]. And while these predictions may or may not be wrong, Nintendo has shown with the Wii U that winning the segment of less dedicated gamers or with unique features is no guarantee of continued success. Of course in the modern tablet and smart phone arena, as with the continued predictions of the demise of the PC and laptop, there's continued prediction of the demise of the console so Microsoft's belief of at a minimum, fundamental shift away from the traditional idea of a console isn't that surprising.

With consoles, there's also far greater involvement of third party software developers in designing the console, particularly this time around or at least for the PS4 [8] [9]. And the actual design period for the consoles is quite a lot longer. (For clarity while the major specs of the console are finalised a while before launch since developers need to have something to work with if they want to launch their games with the consoles, there may stll be minor changes [10].)

All this means that getting the timing right, meaning finalising the console so you can put it in to production and have sufficient volumes for the holiday sales period is likely more difficult.

There are also the volume differences, the PS3 sold 80 million or so so far [11]. Apple can probably sell that many iPhones in a single year and launching later has sold probably 400 million iPhones by now [12].

Apple of course is a highly focused device manufacturer fairly well known for their integration, control and management of their supply chain and manufacturers/OEM [13], Microsoft still only has limited involvement in the device/hardware market with the console probably being their most important device and Sony is fairly diverse.

Remember also while Apple has a new product every year with the corresponding high demand (so their may be a relative lull but it's only a few months), the consoles have their release with the corresponding high demand followed by a several years long tapering period. So console manufacturers will need to start off with high production volumes, reducing over time, but it most likely would be difficult and wouldn't make sense to try and fully meet that initial high demand by trying for too high production volumes. (It would also be interesting to see graphs comparing sales over time. I wouldn't be surprised of the peak for consoles was steeper.)

Nil Einne (talk) 14:11, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Princeton Christian School

Addressed on editor's talk page to suggest the best route

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Hello,

I'm new to Wikipedia and don't really know how to use it or create a page. I work at Princeton Christian School in Princeton, FL. I would truly appreciate if a volunteer could help set up the page for the school. You can find all the information on the website at www.princetonchristian.org.

We are the Panthers and the school was founded in 1957. Please help, the exposure is greatly needed. Thank you!!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pcode16 (talk • contribs) 05:10, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You already posted this request. See the above responses. Please stop reposting it. Shadowjams (talk) 06:48, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mount Everest

I seem to be unable to find information on the size of the area of Mount Everest. I already know the height and I know the area of the Sagarmatha National Park, but what is the area of the mountain? Thuresson (talk) 08:39, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

How does one define the area of a mountain? HiLo48 (talk) 09:59, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That's not a value normally given for a mountain. First off, it could mean the area of the top of the mountain, or the base, where it meets the ground. Then the point where the mountain starts is itself difficult to determine. Then you get into the fractal problem, similar to the one described in How Long Is the Coast of Britain? Statistical Self-Similarity and Fractional Dimension. Then, finally, you would find the area of the top of the mountain would change with the seasons, as glaciers grow and snow pack accumulates in winter. 10:02, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Actually, it isn't so much a fractal problem, because the fractal problem is with length and not area. Even if the outline of a shape (like the coastline of Britain) is undefinable because of fractal issues, it's area is definable within the limits. Consider the Koch snowflake, a figure with an infinitely long (and fractally derived) outline, but a finite area. --Jayron32 15:26, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The problems one runs into when measuring 2D area (*embedded in 3D*) are the same as when measuring length embedded in 2D. Although there must exist more convention because people need to know how much land they own. And I guess you were thinking in terms of a cross section rather than area along the slant of the hill. It's not clear what OP meant. --81.175.225.92 (talk) 18:24, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ah yes. Of course. --Jayron32 19:22, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

One could argue that as the highest peak, the area of Mt Everest is the area of all the land its sits on (Asia+Africa+Europe)... -- SGBailey (talk) 11:49, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In trying to define the area of Everest, you would first have to consider what the dividing line is between Everest and its neigbors - Lhotse, for example. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:36, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Topographic prominence may be a useful read that leads people to answers here. Of course, by those definitions, Everest is the parent peak for the entire Afro-Eur-Asian landmass, as noted above. --Jayron32 15:23, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The issue is, what counts as the edge of the mountain? Which prominences below the summit count as part of the mountain, and which are counted as separate mountains? There is no widely accepted rule for defining the edges of a mountain, so it is impossible to give an accepted figure for its area. Marco polo (talk) 17:09, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There is. Read the article. There's nice pictures and everything... --Jayron32 19:20, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Jayron, of course I read the article on topographic prominence before posting my response (though I knew most of the article's content already). Please don't be insulting. As you know, the prominence method results in defining the area of Mt. Everest as the entire Eurasian-African landmass. That's not a useful answer. Nor does the prominence method work very well with isolated mountains, whose areas according to that method might include vast lowlands. That brings us back to the issue of edges. Marco polo (talk) 16:07, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You're correct. I was condescending and rude, and you did not deserve that. I apoligize for that. --Jayron32 17:03, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to me what the OP is asking for is the area of the "footprint" occupied by the mountain, not the surface area of it as a 3-D object. But in either case, it's not like with a building where you can define the footprint pretty easily. Mountains don't stand alone, they are all part of the global geology. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:40, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

One way to approach this question is to go all fractal. "Can't tell you, fractals you know".

But how about a practical answer. How would you do a ballpark answer that doesn't go into the philosophy of what is the area of a bunch of quantum mechanical probability wave distributions of snow flakes' atoms.

How would you approach this question if you were working it out with a bunch of 12-year-olds who want a real answer at the end of the day? Don't argue where the mountain is, the Internet gives a reasonable enough definition. Don't argue what the area of meter x meter of rock face is, it's a square meter, fractals can go suck eggs. 88.112.50.121 (talk) 23:30, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is, as noted, that other than the summit, mountains do NOT have a well-defined aspect to them. If you had some monadnock which had a clearly defined surrounding plain, you could set a pretty good approximation about where the mountain starts, and could roughly calculate the area inside the shape made by such a mountain's footprint. However, most mountains are parts of mountain ranges where the terrain isn't as simple as a single well-defined cone rising out of a flat plain. They're craggy messes where it's hard to define a complete polygon to define their footprint. There's the system, noted above in the Prominence article, of defining "parent peaks" and "daughter peaks", but, as also noted above, by that definition, Everest is literally the entire landmass it sits on. So that's not a helpful answer. The question isn't "not answerable" because we're splitting hairs over what the definition of a "mountain" is. The question is unanswerable because there's not a clear way to define the mountain in such a way to find a polygon to define the area of. --Jayron32 00:33, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This reminds me of those high tech companies that interview potential employees with questions like "how many gas stations are there in California". The Wikipedia reference desk, as a collective, would spectacularly fail such an interview because it would get stuck on obsessing on "what is the area of a snowflake anyway". When we can't immediately do a back of the envelope calculation, attack the premise of the question. Surely we could have a more educational attitude here. 88.112.50.121 (talk) 01:51, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If it's so easy, why haven't you provided that answer yourself. If we're guilty of attacking the question, you even more guilty for attacking those who attacked the question. That"s double the offense we have all made. If the problem is solvable in the way you describe, don't complain to us we're not solving it in the way you want us to solve it solve it yourself in that way and make fools of us all by showing us how easy it is to get the right answer. If you really want to shame us for doing a bad job, show us how easy it would be to do a good job. --Jayron32 12:08, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mountain ranges can be described by a divide tree, see this link. But more interesting perhaps are watershed boundaries: a watershed is a region where rainfall will collect at the same point. I was thinking, if we turn the topography upside down, with the mountain peaks pointing downward, and imagine that the peak of every mountain (those that are considered seperate mountains, see the topographic prominence article) is a "drain", then every mountain top would have an associated watershed in our inverse landscape, and the surface area could be taken as the size of the "mountain base". If it's at all useful, I don't know, but it's one way to define it without ambiguity. Ssscienccce (talk) 08:15, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Jayron32 (talk · contribs). Asking for the "area" of one peak in a mountain range is like asking "how long is a piece of string ?". The hypothetical bunch of 12 year olds can learn the valuable lesson that not every question that can be asked makes sense. Gandalf61 (talk) 13:58, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well, if forced to find the "area" of a mountain, I'd interpret it as the cross-sectional area of the base, to avoid the fractal problem. Then I'd get a topographical map, like this one: [14] (I'd like a larger map, though, if I could find it). I'd then arbitrarily pick a certain elevation contour, and declare that everything above that line is Everest, and everything below is not.

Then it would be a matter of calculating the 2D area within that contour, which is by no means trivial. In the case of Everest, it looks like it would be roughly triangular, so you could approximate it as a triangle and use the area calculation formula for a triangle. That would give me a WAG estimate. StuRat (talk) 12:32, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The real problem here is "What do you actually need to know and why?" - wanting to know that area of Mt Everest just because you want to know is kinda pointless. But if you were some kind of bizarre performance artist who wanted to cover the entire mountain with a 3" deep layer of chocolate or something - then you'd want the 3D area. If you're planning on making a detailed map of Everest and you need to know how much paper you need - then a 2D area is more interesting. In both cases, the limits of what constitutes a "mountain" would be something you'd need to define...for example, you might say "Every location that can be reached by going only downhill from the summit defines the area" - which might be interesting to an extreme skier! Or "every location that's within the administrative area of the local government" or "every square mile that's too mountainous to farm"...there are many, many definitions here. But the term "area" for something as vaguely delimited as a mountain is meaningless without knowing the context of the question. So WHY you need to know this is the critical thing here. "Area" is just a word...the number you want has to refer to something concrete. SteveBaker (talk) 15:05, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As I've stated before, there is no generally accepted way of defining the edges of Mt. Everest, other than the prominence method which defines its edges as the entire Eurasian-African landmass, so there is no way to give an authoritative response as to its area. Certainly, someone could arbitrarily decide to consider certain cols and/or altitude lines as the boundaries of the mountain, but that would be a subjective choice, or opinion, and we aren't supposed to offer personal opinions on this reference desk. Incidentally, the method of defining the edges as "every location that can be reached by going only downhill from the summit" doesn't work well because it would exclude slight "false summits" on the flanks of the mountain and would include large parts of the Ganges-Brahmaputra watershed, including probably most of Bangladesh. Marco polo (talk) 16:12, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, the latter issue is the biggest problem—the enclosed area 'leaks out' by following the shoreline of any river that drains the flanks of Everest, since water is always going to run downhill. You end up inadvertently including entire oceans. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 13:42, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It often strikes me as funny that we (meaning all humans, not just wikipedians) try to define things and then end up arguing over whether natural objects fit our definition, rather than the other way around. For example, arguments over what Europe is and what Asia is. The fact is that it's all one land mass. Any dividing line is arbitrary, artificial. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:58, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

And Africa is part of it too, the Suez Canal notwithstanding. The problem with any definition of continent is that, if applied rigorously, it will either exclude major parts of the world (e.g. Oceania is most definitely not a single land mass; and Japan and Indonesia et al are groups of islands) or offend our deeply culturally ingrained sense of these things (e.g. when Britons talk of visiting "the continent", they do not envisage it might include trips to Baikal, Baku, Bishkek, Beijing, Bangkok, Bangalore, Bhutan or Baghdad). We need to move to the notion of regions, and forget about continents. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 19:46, 8 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you to all who replied to my question. Thuresson (talk) 23:22, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Rhys Lineage

Hello, my name is Jason Talbot Rice, and I am very curious to know more about how I am related to the surname Rhys. I could explain more, but I will need to talk one on one for that if need be. Otherwise, who could I start contacting to find out more information on that surname? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.40.38.244 (talk) 21:51, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mormons? They're good at geneaology. There are some links to useful websites at the bottom of that article. wikt:Rhys says it's a given name meaning "ardor" and "firey warrior", which is also a patronymic surname, but I assume what you really wanted to know is "who were my Welsh ancestors" (assuming they weren't actually English, Irish or German as noted at Rice (surname)), so perhaps there's something useful in Category:Genealogy and Category:Genealogy websites. Card Zero (talk) 22:06, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I recommend you get yourself a trial membership at ancestry.com and see what you can find out. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:18, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Do you know where your male-line ancestors have lived back to either 1940 (USA) or 1911 (UK)? If so, you can get census data from Ancestry.com to take you back several decades more. (I have an English form of a Welsh surname, and Ancestry gets me back as far as monoglot Welsh hill-farmers.) AlexTiefling (talk) 00:51, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

December 5

Mexican dessert cube

Please do not double post questions: see Humanities desk
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Does anybody know a Mexican (possibly Latin American dish) which looks like a brown sugar cube and dissolves in your mouth? II don't think it was chocolate and I can't seem to find it on Category:Mexican desserts. It is probably available in US since that is where I first tried it.--The Emperor's New Spy (talk) 01:28, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

baseball

What was shoeless Joe Jackson's lifetime batting adverage against the Boston red sox pitcher George h. Ruth?---- — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.8.153.246 (talk) 09:44, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Babe Ruth's page on Baseball-Reference.com [15] only has game logs starting in 1916; he only pitched 4 times in his first season, 1914, but had a full season for which there is no data in 1915. In 1916, Jackson went 4 for 11 against Ruth, then 7 for 24 in 1917 (with some approximation for the games in which Ruth was not the sole pitcher; complete play-by-play records are not available). The two did not face each-other in 1918, and in 1919, Jackson went 4 for 10. Ruth only pitched once in 1920, and not against Jackson's team, the White Sox; after that season Shoeless Joe was banned for life for his role in the Black Sox Scandal. That gives a total of 15 for 45, or a .333 batting average for the five seasons for which we have data, which is below Jackson's career average of .356, but still quite good for a lefthanded batter facing the top left-hander of his day. --Xuxl (talk) 13:33, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Retrosheet, which I think is one of Baseball-Ref's sources, appears to have box scores for Jackson in 1915.[16] It could be a little tedious, but you could look at the games against Boston, see if Ruth was pitching, and see if you can infer which pitcher he hit off of (if any). You could also look for game summaries on microfilm of major newspapers such as the NY Times. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:28, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Obamacare age restriction

I went to check their web site for if my elderly mother can get any kind of coverage, but the highest age they list is 64. Does this mean there is no coverage offered through this program for the elderly ? I'm guessing they intend them to use Medicare alone, but she was hoping to find a plan there to supplement Medicare, particularly for catastrophic coverage. Does Medicare already cover such claims (like if a heart transplant is needed) ? StuRat (talk) 10:03, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

See here. Not that it was in any way obvious, but senior coverage is not an intended part of the health care marketplaces. That link I provided gives the various options your mother has. She can purchase insurance in the new health care marketplace, but she will not be eligible for a tax subsidy like those under 65. Someguy1221 (talk) 11:15, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I went through the Medicare web site to find her a Medigap plan. StuRat (talk) 12:06, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

How many states are there in India?

How many states are there in India? What is the easiest way of locating this information on Wikipedia? Thanks in advance, XOttawahitech (talk) 20:50, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The best way to find this information is typically the use of a search engine; a Google search for "states of India" refers to our states of India article as the first result. — Lomn 20:57, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The easiest way is to read the article on India. See India#Subdivisions. RudolfRed (talk) 23:43, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Contacting a Wikipedia contributor?

I'm an archives researcher/writer at the Canadian Bushplane Heritage Centre in Sault Ste. Marie, Canada, trying to contact Cwmacdougall, primary author of your excellent article on Frank Archibald MacDougall. Is there any way you can advise this contributor that I'm trying to contact him/her? - David Helwig [redacted] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.5.176.222 (talk) 22:30, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

See if Cwmacdougall (talk · contribs) is still active and/or allows e-mails. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:32, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes on both. If IP's can't do e-mails, then leave the user a talk page message. But DO NOT post your own e-mail address here, unless you enjoy endless spam and malware. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:34, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Bugs has, as usual, offered an incomplete and incorrect answer.

User:Cwmacdougall last posted here back in July - but only has sporadic bursts of activity separated by months of nothing.
If you go to his/her user page, you'll see an "email this user" link in the menu over on the left - so, yes, you can definitely send email.
Posting your email address here isn't recommended because of the fear of spammers harvesting email addresses. But in practice, I've had my web site and email address (<steve@sjbaker.org>) posted publically here and on my User: page for over 8 years and have not noticed any increase in my meager spam volume as a result. So I'm quite sure you wouldn't suffer "endless spam and malware" if you decided to do the same thing.

SteveBaker (talk) 04:20, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

And you're half-baked - as usual. I didn't redact the guy's e-mail address, in fact I hardly ever do that, as someone else usually does it first. As with this section.[17] So go yell at those folks. Also, Cwmacdougall (talk · contribs) is not a prolific contributor, but has a screen's worth of contributions since late October, including 9 in the last 3 day. Last time I checked my calendar, it ain't July right now. And by the way, wise guy, when I log out to my IP, the option "e-mail this user" disappears. Now, don't bother apologizing for your 3-strikes-you're-out. Just send 5 dollars in postage stamps to my lawyer, Hon. Charles H. Hungadunga, and tell him it's for my favorite charity, the Home for Disabled Veterinarians. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:17, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I redacted the email address, because it seems standard policy. Given the lack of response from Mr. Helwig, I informed Cwmacdougall on his talk page, with a link to the diff containing the email address. Ssscienccce (talk) 15:15, 8 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In the link I cited, Tevildo removed it. Be that as it may, Mr. Half-Baked may say it's merely "recommended", but it is in fact standard practice to remove it from ref desk entries. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:27, 8 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You're correct that you need to be logged in with an account to email someone via the wikipedia email function. In fact your account needs to have a confirmed email address to be able to do so. Nil Einne (talk) 20:57, 8 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

BTW, I'm somewhat confused by what the comment 'last posted here back in July' means. From what I can tell Cwmacdougall has never posted to any of the reference desks. However it doesn't seem a problem since I don't think anyone was suggesting to use the RD contact them, which is a suggestion which doesn't make much sense for account anyway (only really makes sense for fairly dynamic IPs which only frequent the RD). Incidentally, while I don't really want to get in to the above mess, and this is all a moot point since Cwmacdougall had already replied before Steve Baker's first post [18], I do agree with BB that their statement on Cwmacdougall's activity was sufficiently accurate. I looked thorough the history and until March 2012 Cwmacdougall was active every month. In fact, since that implies a maximum of 61 days or so between activity, and the activity before 30 March 2012 was 30 Janury 2012, we can specify a maximum of 61 days between activity until 31 December 2011. It's true the activity was more sporiadic before then, e.g. 28 August 2011 was the last before 31 December 2011 and then 29 July 2011 and possibly even more in some of the earlier times. But I question the need to go that far back, and it seems a little confusing to say 'only has sporadic bursts of activity separated by months of nothing' when the last time that happened was nearly 2 years ago. (Or at least if you're like me and when you say 'months between' it's assumed you generally mean more than 2 months because it would be normal to just specify a couple of months if that's all it is.) Notably as BB has said, in recent times they have been fairly active. In fact it looks to me like for at least a year (April-June & July-October 2012 it was around 20-30 days) they've generally been active for every every 18 days at a minimum (February 2013 was 18 days) with often less than 7 days, although I didn't look that carefully. It's of course possible they would go inactive again, and with such an activity profile it's somewhat more likely than with someone who has been very active for the past 6 years. But you can never guarantee someone will stay active even in such a case and considering the circumstances, it seem fair to simply say that the editor is active (perhaps adding the caveat 'appears' would be better). Nil Einne (talk) 22:00, 8 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Before this discussion, Cwmacdougall had last posted to User talk:Cwmacdougall in July. I guess that's where SteveBaker got the month from, but I don't see the relevance of the last post to the user talk page. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:17, 8 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah I noticed that and was in the middle of editing my reply when I found out you'd replied. Reading more carefully I realise SB did link to User:Cwmacdougall, so I guess 'here' meant the linked page rather than 'here' meaning where we are now. I presume this part was a reply to BB's suggestion of posting to Cwmacdougall's talk page. Except of course they linked to the user page (which hasn't been edited since September 2010) rather than the talk page so I still find it fairly confusing.

Particularly considering as you said, it doesn't seem relevant. A lot of people only use their talk page to reply to others. Some people still use the practice of replying on the talk page of whoever posted. And so the only time they edit their talk page is to archive and perhaps clear spam and stuff they considered unwanted.

The notification system (before this the orange box of doom) means people will often become aware of any message posted to their talk page if they're active and logged in. Some people have even set it up to get emails when it's modified.

None of which means they will choose to read it, let alone choose to respond in some way. But unless you have clear evidence the person generally ignores important messages, which will need to come from more complicated analysis and often you just don't know, don't worry about when someone edited their talk page.

In this particular case, a simple glance at the talk page history [19] will tell you no one edited it since Cwmcdougall did in July until the recent stuff, so it's fairly expected there would be no edits to it. (In fact, a glance at their talk page suggests to me they generally reply to most stuff fairly quickly.)

So yeah sorry to make a big deal about this dead matter, but although I'm frequently in disagreement with BB I just don't see what they did wrong in this case. Their statement was sufficiently accurate and helpful. And unfortunately for once, it's SB's statement which seems the more confusing or even misleading (well the spam/email bit is probably right). And this seems to have been borne out by what happened as well (Cwmcdougall also replied to Ssscience).

Nil Einne (talk) 22:39, 8 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Does seem a big deal about my talk page, which you're right I only use when someone contacts me there (and which I clean up quickly), while I think I edit articles quite a lot, if anything too much! cwmacdougall 23:37, 8 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Airliner window gaps

I flew in a [737] today and got to wondering about the gaps in the regular window spacing. I noticed that near row 8 there was approximately one window missing and the wall seemed thicker there. I'm pretty sure I've seen such gaps in other airliners. I'm wondering if this bit of thick windowless wall contains cables or ventilation channels or something like that? It can't be strengthening, because why would that be needed just there? Hayttom 23:22, 5 December 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hayttom (talk • contribs) [reply]

Ok, this isn't a sound reference by engineering standards, but SeatGuru confirms: "There are areas of the plane where air ducts or wires are run behind the wall. When this is required, it is not possible to have a window in this location, so instead, a solid blank wall will be there instead. Yes, airlines still advertise the seat as a "Window Seat" even though there is no window." [20] Various online forums give the same reasons, also talking about which rows are affected in which aircraft. ---Sluzzelin talk 00:12, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved

I sure would be pissed of if I was promised a window seat and got a seat with no window or even access to the aisle. Might as well toss me into the cargo hold. At least I'd probably have more legroom there. :-) StuRat (talk) 10:30, 6 December 2013 (UTC) [reply]

Note in some cases you will get a window which looks out over the wing. So if you want to be able to see the ground/ocean on the few occasions that's possible, even having a window may not be enough for you. Nil Einne (talk) 22:41, 8 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm perfectly happy with a window over the wing. That gives me a chance to watch the gremlin as he tears apart the engine. :-) StuRat (talk) 11:46, 9 December 2013 (UTC) [reply]

Especially if you discover that you're seated between William Shatner and John Lithgow. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:34, 10 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

December 6

Car Heater Malfunction

Hi, I'm not savvy about cars and wanted to see if anyone can explain to me what might be going on with mine- so I don't get ripped off when I take it to a shop (and because I'm curious). I was driving last night, my heater was working fine and, suddenly, it started blowing cold air (no noises, nothing). I checked the coolant, which was low, put some more in, no change. Then, I let the car run for a while to see if it would eventually heat up, it didn't, but the air coming out of the heaters smelled like a mix of burning oil/exhaust/something-along-those-lines. Any ideas?Phoenixia1177 (talk) 07:21, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well, usually if you smell anything coming out of the vents, it's antifreeze, and that happens when you have a leaking heater core. That is supposed to act as a heat exchanger, taking heat from the antifreeze and putting it into the air, but a leak means the antifreeze actually gets into the air. Unfortunately, if this is the problem, it can cost hundreds to repair, since they often have to take off the dashboard to get to it. Not sure why it would smell like burning oil, though, unless somebody put oil in your radiator. StuRat (talk) 10:25, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Antifreeze smells very sweet - and it's not good to be breathing it - so you need to get it fixed ASAP if that's what you're smelling.

Generally, air smelling of antifreeze means that you have a leaky heater core. However, if that were the only problem, you'd still be getting warm air. Getting only cold air generally means that one of the internal flaps that directs air around the car is stuck - which could be something as simple a leaf or some other piece of debris stuck inside it - or something complicated relating to the motor that moves it or the thermostat that's sensing the internal temperature of the car - but if that's what it was, you wouldn't be smelling anything. The problem I'm having is coming up with a single explanation that would explain *both* the lack of heat and the smell - the only thing that comes to mind is if an air hose fell off inside the engine bay, which would mean that instead of getting warm air, you're getting air from inside the engine bay.

Your low coolant level could be a clue here. It would suggest that perhaps the heater core is leaking SO much water that none gets to heat up the air at all - and you're smelling antifreeze. I've never seen that happen - but I suppose it's possible...and it does neatly explain why your coolant level was low.

Heater core replacement (as StuRat says) isn't usually cheap because you have to remove so much 'stuff' to get to it...and if this is your problem, you need to get it fixed because otherwise you'll be out of coolant again very soon and because smelling antifreeze isn't good for you!

No matter what, you should definitely keep a close check your coolant level until you get this fixed because if it gets too low, you could trash your engine - or at least dramatically shorten it's life.

SteveBaker (talk) 17:09, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I like the theory that a hose fell off delivering outside air to the heater core, and now it's just sucking engine air in. The OP might want to put it into recirculate mode (sometimes labelled MAX), to see if that changes anything.

Also, if it was coolant he was smelling, buying some organic coolant (the stuff made to be pet-safe), might make it a bit less toxic to inhale, until he gets it repaired. And, if only cold air comes out, he might as well leave the heat off until it's fixed. That should at least reduce the amount of engine air that comes into the passenger compartment. StuRat (talk) 13:53, 9 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

orginazational changes

Why are Jehovah's witnesses moving their world headquarters from Brooklyn NY where they have been for 100 years to upstate New York? Specifically Warwick NY? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.8.153.246 (talk) 08:56, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This link gives some reasons.Dalliance (talk) 12:52, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

http://e-watchman.com/home/on-jehovahs-witnesses-abandoning-brooklyn

For further info on the general topic (though not necessarily this specific instance), Google the subject "rats deserting a sinking ship". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:12, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

According to the last paragraph at http://www.jw.org/en/news/by-region/americas/united-states/jehovahs-witnesses-sale-move/, it makes possible the continued expansion of their global work. According to http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2012605?q=wallkill&p=par, they have not changed their belief that the great tribulation will come soon, and they would be glad if it interrupts their plans.

—Wavelength (talk) 23:59, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Srisa Chandra Vasu

Hello,

I have an issue with this author, which is said to be born on 1861 [21], and according to this scan, translated a work the same year. He may have been a genius, but still… ;o) Any idea? Yann (talk) 10:38, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That scan appears to be a translation by Bapu Deva Sastri. Is that the same person? Rojomoke (talk) 13:35, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yann appeared to think so at a time per the history of Bapudeva Sastri. However I think they changed their minds but still think Srisa Chandra Vasu is the translator. Either way, it seems to me most likely both are two different people, one born in 1821 and one born in 1861. Both translated Siddhanta but not the same works (Srisa Chandra Vasu did Siddhanta Kaumudi at least, Bapudeva Sastri did the Surya Siddhanta and finished or at least revised the translation of the Siddhānta Shiromani by Lancelot Wilkinson, maybe because Lancelot Wilkinson died before publishing it or something). To be honest, I'm not sure why the connection was made, Yann appears to have been the one that added the name Srisa Chandra Vasu when uploading the work to the wikimedia commons [22], but I can't see the name anywhere in the source (well he is mentioned in connection to The Ashtadhyayi Of Panini but not the Siddhanta) nor in the original ebooks even the metadata (nor of course the book although I only looked at the beginning and the commentary at the end). Maybe the names are similar in Sanskrit or however they wrote their names natively? Nil Einne (talk) 17:22, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Kendrick Lamar's Verses in "YOLO"; sincere un-ironic advice?

I was always curious about Kendrick Lamar's verses in YOLO by The Lonely Island because unlike the rest of the song, it sounds like he's just giving correct advice. This doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the lyrics, which are all about going to unrealistic degrees to live a safe life. Even Rap Genius annotates Lamar's verses as correct financial opinions. Is there nothing ironic, no double-meanings or anything in that segment? --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 19:46, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I had always assumed the irony in Lamar's advice stemmed from just how boring it is. Someguy1221 (talk) 03:23, 11 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Harold Camping's Bible.

Which Bible does Harold Camping use? --78.156.109.166 (talk) 20:47, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This is a WP:BLP. You might thry the external links at our article, assuming you have read it. μηδείς (talk) 21:33, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There's a link in the article which points to an essay by Camping's group which talks at length about their view of the Bible. This is one page of it, in which he references the King James version and the American Standard version. It's possible he refers to other versions in later chapters. But this fits with other prophecy mavens like Herbert W. Armstrong, whose view (as I recall) was that those two versions were the "best" translations. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:29, 6 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know that he is tied to one version like the KJV-only group is. Here he discusses studying words in the text in the original languages. Rmhermen (talk) 00:56, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What is mavens? So is it KJV or ASV? Or something else? --78.156.109.166 (talk) 20:12, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A maven (rhymes with "raven") is an expert on a given topic. Indications are that he uses the KJV frequently, and also approves of the ASV. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:56, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Leslie Westbrook, The Daily Advertiser (Lafayette), March 17, 2011: The Lunch Hour: End of the world as we know it?: "As they do with most everyone they meet, they sent me home with several brochures, tracts as they call them, and a little book called "We Are Almost There." It was put together by Harold Camping, the president and general manager of Family Radio, and lays out a mathematical interpretation of scriptures in the King James Bible to create a time line of events that end with the rapture on May 21 and the destruction of Earth on October 21." -- Jreferee (talk) 22:18, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

December 7

Maths homework

Q.Check which of the following subsets of R is compact, sequentially compact or countably compact :

 (a)   (-3,2]
 (b)   (1,2)
 (c)   [8,9)
 Support your results with suitable arguments.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.139.209.194 (talk) 11:00, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Do you see the sentence at the top of this page that says: "We don't do your homework for you, though we’ll help you past the stuck point"? Tell us what you are stuck on, and we might be able to help (though it would be better on the maths reference desk). --ColinFine (talk) 13:32, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'll give some tips.

Compact_space#Introduction: first five lines should give the answer regarding "compact".
One of the properties of Countably compact space should tell you the rest.

then again, I'm not used to the English vocabulary in set theory and related math topics, so I could be wrong... Ssscienccce (talk) 22:44, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

How to install CNG/LPG system on a 1.6L Kia CVVT engine?

I want to know about how to install CNG/LPG system on a 5 m (16 ft) fishing boat's installed 1.6L CVVT car engine (for information purposes only)?

Engine details:
Engine from: 2012 Kia Rio SX GDI
Displacement: 1,600 cm³ (98 cu in)
Engine name: Gamma
Original fuel type: Petrol/Gasoline
Valvetrain: Dual overhead camshaft, 16 valve

How to pronounce Alexander Tietze's last name

Please help me with pronouncing Tietze. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Susanhaller (talk • contribs) 22:30, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Dutch isn't so different from German, so the first second of this youtube video should give you an idea. Ssscienccce (talk) 22:49, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

merriam-webster.com gives the IPA transliteraration of "Tietze's" as \ˈtēt-səz-\ and has a sound file - I can't tell you if it works because some ne'er-do-well has borrowed my speakers and not returned them. There's another sound file on memidex.com. Alansplodge (talk) 00:43, 8 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Huh huh, \ˈtēt-səz-\. Huh huh. μηδείς (talk) 03:51, 8 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

December 8

Congolese woman

Can anyone identify this woman, either individually, or in a more detailed manner than in the file history or at Flickr? Thanks. μηδείς (talk) 04:46, 8 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

[23] says Bangobango people group of Democratic Republic of Congo.
Sleigh (talk) 14:21, 8 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I had seen that page when I did a reverse image search at google yesterday. But I believe they got the image from wikipedia--in any case, it is uncredited there, and described as a "representative image". Discussion of the image at Bantu peoples implies it was originally taken from flicker, where al it was described as was "Congolese woman". That's not to say it's not a Bangobango woman, but I was hoping maybe we could get something along the lines of "a woman wearing traditional Bangobango dress" or te like. μηδείς (talk) 18:25, 8 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Alan Winnington/Winnington Baronets

Is Alan Winnington (de, [24], [25]) related with the Winnington Baronets? --Dandelo (talk) 10:38, 8 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I can see, not directly. Sir Thomas Winnington, 4th Baronet (1811-1872) only had two sons; one died unmarried at the age of 21.[26] The other son, Sir Francis Salwey Winnington, 5th Bt. (1849-1941), had three sons, none of whom apparently had a son called Alan. I have discounted female children as they wouldn't have passed the Winnington name on to their children. You can follow the family tree backwards from the first page that I linked if you have the time, but lunch is ready now! Alansplodge (talk) 13:03, 8 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Dip pen stuck in potato

In an old Laurel and Hardy short, the desk clerk at a low rent hotel placed the registry dip pen into a potato, when not in use. Was this really done back then, and for what reason ? Perhaps it kept the ink from drying into clumps on the nib ? StuRat (talk) 13:15, 8 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I found The Cambridge Companion to Elgar, edited by Daniel M. Grimley and Julian Rushton (p. 36) which says "He (Edward Elgar) avoided writer's cramp by using a dip pen rather than a fountain pen, which required him to lean forward to the inkwell and clean his pen by plunging it into a potato.". I also found a novel called The Accidental Time Machine, by Joe W. Haldeman (p. 131) in which one of the characters asks (in reference to dip pens) "'Why a potato?' 'It keeps the points from getting rusty. You stick them into a potato when you're done for the day.'" This latter explanation seems less likely to me. We used dip pens and ink wells at our primary school in London in the 1960s (not many people believe me but I assure you that it's true). The steel nibs that we were provided with were plated (maybe with chromium?), and I never recall seeing one go rusty despite the way that we abused them (we used to play darts with them by throwing them into the wooden floors - the points would need a bit of straightening afterwards). We were given pink blotting paper to clean them with, as the deposits of dried ink made them drop big blots in your exercise book - a caning offence in my father's day (1920s) but would still draw adverse comments in the more enlightened 1960s. The trouble with blotting paper was that it left fibres on the nib and you had to be careful where you put the inky paper afterwards in case you got ink on everything. So using a potato to clean the nib sounds plausible, but I'd never heard of it until just now. Alansplodge (talk) 19:42, 8 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

my guess is that it was just a gag. you poke a potato a couple of times and leave it out on a desk and it is not going to last long. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 19:44, 8 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Elgar is not well known for slapstick; calling his bicycle "Mr Phoebus" after a character invented by Benjamin Disraeli was his kind of joke (no, I don't get it either). Alansplodge (talk) 19:50, 8 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Elgar may not be joking, but the bit in the Laurel and Hardy clip probably is. things that are standardly performed or perceived as a joke can be found to be actually done by at least a few individuals as their normal form of business.-- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 20:00, 8 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well maybe, but going in search of backup, I found this interview with a lady who runs her own calligraphy business in California... Q. "What tool do you use in your business that you can’t live without?" A. "Don’t laugh. A raw potato. Its my secret weapon. A former calligraphy teacher showed me this trick to clean the ink off the pen nib, and I swear it really works!" Alansplodge (talk) 20:14, 8 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Clearing the sandpit in Long Jump

Are there any rules or regulations that cover the (admittedly unlikely) event that an athlete competing in the Long Jump actually clears the sand pit? Would the jump be a foul or would they be awarded a maxmimum jump distance? Likewise, in throwing events, is there anything covering someone throwing their object beyond the final line of the measuring sector. Nanonic (talk) 15:36, 8 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Speaking from distant memories of school-level competitions (I once briefly held an under-16 County (Kent, UK) record in the 8lb Shot put), in throwing events the distance lines are only there for the informal guidance of spectators and competitors – the actual distance measurement should always be done with a steel or fibreglass measuring tape from the landing point to the edge of the throwing circle. The only problem would, I'd think, be determining whether the object landed within the permissible angle of the Sector if it did so beyond the end of the marked Sector lines and line-end flags.

In the (presumably representative) USATF 2006 Rules, the relevant Article III Section 1 Rule 187 goes into some detail about marking out the Sectors for the various throwing events, but I can see no suggestions of any maximum distance restrictions.

Regarding the Long jump (or Triple Jump), the eventuality seems so unlikely that there may be no relevant rules in existence. Note that in the above-linked Rules, Article III Section 1 Rule 185 Long Jump Item 6 states:

"It is recommended that the distance between the take-off board and the end of the landing area shall be at least 10 metres."

Since 10m is more than 10% greater than the current Long jump World Record, it's being exceeded in our era seems nigh-on impossible: should future athletes begin to approach 10m, doubtless the recommendations would be modified, since no-one would want to see an athlete injure him/herself by landing on the edge of the pit (or beyond). As for the Triple jump, the event's nature guarantees the final jump phase being shorter than in the Long jump, so the potential problem is taken care of by the former's set-up. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195 90.201.159.157 (talk) 16:49, 8 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

IAAF Competition Rules 2014-2015 (4 MB PDF) pages 199-200 says:

RULE 185
Long Jump
Competition
1. An athlete fails if:
...
(d) after taking off, but before his first contact with the landing area,
he touches the runway or the ground outside the runway or
outside the landing area;
...
3. An athlete shall not be regarded to have failed if:
...
(d) if in the course of landing, he touches, with any part of his body,
or anything attached to it at that moment, the border of, or the
ground outside the landing area, unless such contact contravenes
Rule 185.1(d)
...
Take-off Line
4. The distance between the take-off line and the far end of the landing
area shall be at least 10m.

The World Record is 8.95m. They probably didn't have beyond the landing area in mind with "outside the landing area", but a literal interpretation says it would be a fail. If a jumper is about to go a little long then I suppose he could deliberately put down a leg to touch something inside the landing area first, but the whole thing is rather theoretical if the 10m minimum is satisfied. In practice I suspect the officials would either try to conservatively measure the actual jump length, or give the distance to the far end of the landing area. If they declared a fail then the jumper would probably protest to the Referee. Page 147 says:

To arrive at a fair decision, the
Referee should consider any available evidence which he thinks
necessary, including a film or picture produced by an official video
recorder, or any other available video evidence. The Referee may
decide on the protest or may refer the matter to the Jury. If the Referee
makes a decision, there shall be a right of appeal to the Jury.

PrimeHunter (talk) 16:53, 8 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

How do they turn off/on the fuel pumps when a gas station closes/opens?

Not the emergency shut off. I'm looking for the method in which the older gas stations (before they were all 24 hours and took credit cards) would shut down the pumps at night, and then turn them back on in the morning. Is their a switch inside the station? A breaker box? A key that must be turned at the pump? Anyone ever worked at a gas station and know how they turned off/on the pumps? Just to be clear, this is for a story I'm writing, not looking to steal gas :) Thanks! Ditch ∝ 18:14, 8 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've seen the forecourt lights and the pumps being turned-off at the same time, without anyone walking out of the kiosk. I would be surprised if there isn't a switch inside that turns off the power supply, but I don't know for certain. Alansplodge (talk) 19:13, 8 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict)I used to work at a country general store that had a couple pumps out front. They had just a simple switch behind the counter. It was the same as what you would use to turn off a light in your house. If you need a bit of realism for your story, it also had an ancient piece of masking tape above the switch that read simply "Pumps". Dismas|^(talk) 19:16, 8 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

December 9

Fleur-de-lis

I don’t understand why you lot consider this to be a Christian symbol. I have never seen any biblic mentions or uses of this. Are you just classifying it as such simply because it was used by Christians? --66.190.69.246 (talk) 03:27, 9 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]