Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers/Archive 9

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'Visual' Filmography... ?

(1st attempt)

I am seeking feedback on an idea for the filmography tables, that being, making them more visual. I have created one as a proof of concept, using the filmography of Justin Timberlake, as he has a smaller filmography, but all feature films. This could be applied in several different ways; it could accompany the existing table, replace the table, or be added at the bottom of the page. This example is collapsed, which again, is just one idea, but this doesn't mean it has to be collapsed. Please have look and let me know what you think. - thewolfchild 01:00, 7 October 2013 (UTC) (I have now removed the two examples I had original posted, as the wiki-police keep gutting the images from them, thereby defeating the entire purpose of posting them. You can't have a discussion about how something looks, when there is nothing to look at.) The following links are to another page where I had initially created these proofs of concepts; example 1, example 2, example 3, example 4, example 5 feedback Oppose. Not suitable for an encyclopedia, not least because of WP:NFCC. --Rob Sinden (talk) 12:58, 7 October 2013 (UTC) - Thanks for the reply. But, could you expand upon it a little? "Unsuitable" how? And, how is it you think NFCC applies? Thanks. - thewolfchild 13:03, 8 October 2013 (UTC) It's not the best way to display the information, a filmography table is suitable enough. What do we gain by adding all the pretty pictures which would fail multiple criteria at WP:NFCC and presents the information in a less accessible manner? --Rob Sinden (talk) 13:14, 8 October 2013 (UTC) Besides the obvious case why I removed the files on this page (WP:NFCC#9 non-free media can only be used in articles). See WP:NFC#UUI The use of non-free media (whether images, audio or video clips) in galleries, discographies, and navigational and user-interface elements generally fails the test for significance (criterion #8). A filmography is just a variant of a discography. See also WP:NFTABLE Werieth (talk) 13:39, 8 October 2013 (UTC) Again, how can you discuss making a change, if you can't see what you're discussing? I see no reason why images cannot be used to that end, on a project talk page. (At lease until the discussion is closed). As for NFCC#9, see: Exemptions. Also see WP:NFLISTS and WP:NFTABLE. They both clearly state that there are exemptions on a case-by-case basis. Then, beyond all that, is the fact that these are only guidelines. I am not looking to break them, rather I'm here looking to discuss if they should be ignored or changed. The images I'm using are simply movie posters from the actual, individual WP articles, that are being listed in the filmography. Why not consider this? Keeping in mind the layout I used and the info I included were just part of the example of the idea I am bringing here. Rob states that; "...a filmography table is suitable enough." Why? According to who? Rob then writes; "What do we gain by adding all the pretty pictures...". The immature quip aside, what is gained is an enhanced reading experience due to the added visual aspect. As for Werieth, I would have appreciated it if you had just commented on the idea itself, instead of getting hung-up on policy and trying to shove it in my face, whether it really does, actually apply or not. (We get it, you like deleting stuff. But you do carried away with sometimes.) - thewolfchild 20:11, 8 October 2013 (UTC) You need to read the WP:COPYRIGHT rules. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 20:27, 8 October 2013 (UTC) Yup, read it already. So what? - thewolfchild 01:39, 9 October 2013 (UTC) (edit conflict)Actually, please check your attitude. If you want an exemption WT:NFC is the place to request one. Until such time as consensus is in favor of your request, there is no exemption. If you want policy instead of guidelines to back my position See WP:NFCC#1,WP:NFCC#3,WP:NFCC#8. Your visual improvements go against the m:Mission of Wikipedia to provide free content, not only in regards to access, but the licensing of the content. The bar for usage of non-free media is fairly high, why is not having a picture in a filmography detrimental to understanding the actor or actress? Especially when we can provide a link to the full article on the related film with which includes the poster? Also regardless of what this wikiproject decides it cannot override the non-free content policy. If you want to discuss changing policy WT:NFC is the place for that. Werieth (talk) 20:27, 8 October 2013 (UTC) Oh, please... you're the last person who should be preaching about attitude. I see you quoted more NFCC#'s, which means that you, again, have entirely missed the point. Regardless, I have changed the examples so that no images are included and why would I seek a policy change for and idea that I have simply proposed for feedback, and is nowhere near consensus for inclusion? - thewolfchild 01:39, 9 October 2013 (UTC) oppose and speedy close 1) unacceptable per copyrights 2) formatting nightmare 3) text and reading are good, no need to accelerate the dumming down of people to read by replacing everything with pictographs. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 20:37, 8 October 2013 (UTC) Your oppose is noted, along with your reasons (including the snarky one). You guys need to relax. This was simply an idea I posted on a talk page, it's not as if I went and actually changed any articles. It would be nice if you could just reply with a simple opinion, leave out the rudeness and quit trying to bog everything down with endless policy and guideline cites. Oh, and 3 replies a speedy close does not make. - thewolfchild 01:39, 9 October 2013 (UTC) Oppose as per all the comments above. It won't happen. Nymf (talk) 13:41, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

(2^nd attempt)

My question is basically this; What do some people here think about the possibility of adding a thumbnail image of a movie poster to the corresponding entry of an actors' filmography? I'm just looking for feed back on the concept. I realize some users feel there may be an NFCC issue, but even if there is, I don't think it is particularly clear cut, and if there was enough demand/consensus for the idea, then NFCC could be addressed then. I'm not looking for complaints about NFCC here and now, just simple feedback on the concept itself. Wikipedia is full of images. It is a visual medium. I feel adding these images, in one fashion or another, could really serve to enhance these filmographies. Thanks - thewolfchild 13:48, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

• Yes if image is free, see below no movie article, no otherwise due to the spirit of WP:NFCC and arguably the letter of U.S. copyright law. If there is no movie article, there may be a fleshed-out section in the actor's bio page or filmography page which discusses the movie in enough detail that a page could be made if the movie passed WP:Notability. In these cases, I have no problem supporting the placing a movie poster in the section that discusses the movie because this section would be the one and only place in Wikipedia which discussed the movie in the level of detail usually found in an article. Due to the fact that this dances very close to the edge of WP:NFCC and possibly U.S. copyright law, this would have to be discussed first and likely on a case-by-case basis. In other words, if the filmography were written with a fleshed-out section for each movie, then yes, I would support using a non-free image in the same section as that discussion of that movie just as we currently use movie posters in movie articles. However, I don't see enough justification for putting the thumbnail of a non-free image in a "list-only" filmography to warrant it.

Note: It's my reading of WP:NFCC and related policies that Wikipedia already allows the use of the image if the image itself is the subject of significant critical commentary, regardless of what article the commentary is in, subject to restrictions like "minimal uses" (e.g. use only a crop if that's all that is needed, minimal resolution, don't use at all if a textual description will do, etc.).

davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 21:10, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RfC on Charlie Chaplin's birth date

I have opened an RfC on the Charlie Chaplin article, since there is some uncertainty over what date we should give as his birthday. The information and RfC can be found here: Talk:Charlie_Chaplin#Suggesting a possible change or addition to his birth date. Any input would be much appreciated. --Loeba (talk) 11:54, 20 October 2013 (UTC)