Talk:Leung Ting

Assault of Girlfriend

Why isn't the paragraph about alleged assault and beating of a girlfriend not in controversies section? I've read several articles, mostly in chinese, and it seems to be a "He said, She said" kind of situation. They way it is worded it seems that one party is guilty over the other, and I didn't get that feeling from any of the articles I read. Who is to say one is correct over the other. It is possible she was trying to con him out of money. The fact is that no one will ever know the truth on that situation. I've seen text messages from Leung Ting's cell phone in chinese newspapers backing up his claim, while another claims she merely beaten for no reason. I think that those sentences should be worded differently if we are going to be adding personal information. At least be non-biased.

Oh I'd also like to add how it is great that all of the wing chun schools get along and never bash each other. (Sarcasm) Its like we are killing each other's success as a whole. Together we all set an image of our art, no matter how you spell it. Ponsau (talk) 07:59, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

On April 29, 2010 in Hong Kong in the High Court, Leung Ting was cleared of all charges in the appeal of this court case and pronounced innocent of all allegations. Once all the facts and evidence of the case were presented, it was a simple matter for Court of First Instance Judge Darryl Gordon Saw to reach a verdict of innocence, and the case was concluded in one morning. I would suggest that it might be best to remove all references to this case entirely, since he was acquitted and the judge stated that the medical report did not support his former girlfriend's testimony; however, I realize that immediately deleting this might be controversial. I therefore edited the entry to include Leung's side of the original testimony, details of the acquittal, and references to verify the acquittal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SifuMike (talk • contribs) 20:55, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Controversies and Disputes

Hello, this page has a lot of ongoing controversies and disputes. From now on, please add controversies to that section of the article. It's also very important that anything you add has a source or citation that can be checked by other editors and visitors to wikipedia. Please try to be neutral and avoid violating any wikipedia guidlines such as conflict of interest. Feel free to write whatever you want in the talk page, but unless it is non-POV and can be sourced do not add it to the article. Thanks! --Mista-X 01:00, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

If the lineage of Leung Ting was verifiable, it wouldn't be a controversy. In fact, his claimed lineage is only accepted by people affiliated with him. Every other student of Ip Man disputes it. As a comparison, no one disputes the lineages of Ip Chun, Ip Ching, Wong Shun Leung, Tsui Sheung Tin, Hawkins Cheung or Moy Yat.

Ip Man may have attended Leung Ting's November 1969 show, and it may well have been the only open show he attended. That only shows Leung Ting is a master of publicity and marketing; most of Ip's other students taught very quietly and relatively privately and didn't hold open shows. And personally, I believe Ip attended the show more out of politeness than anything else.

And until you've actually tried and felt the Wing Chun of a few of the lineages I mentioned, you're not qualified to judge whether or not Leung Ting's system is complete. In my experience, Leung Ting's students focus on speed to the exclusion of all other attributes -- to their detriment.

The Truth about Yip Man and Leung Ting's Relationship, not the complete nonsense typed below

The lineage of Leung Ting is not a legitimate conspiracy. It is verifiable that he was the last closed door student of Yip Man, and also that he was never kicked out of a wing chun school. A perfect documented example of this is when yip man attended the first open show of wing tsun and free fight tournament held in November 1969 as an honorable guest to Leung Ting. This event was the first and only time Grandmaster Yip Man attended an open show by any of his followers. The two men held a very close relationship until Yip Man's death in 1972. -- added by 74.135.6.194 on 23:36, 16 November 2006

From what I've heard from my current chief instructor in my martial arts school, I was told that Leung Ting was taught the entire Wing Chun system, and that the Wing Tsun variation was the "complete art," while the sixty-five other students only understood a portion of the lessons they were given. Note: This is what I merely heard.

Pretty detailed for something 'merely heard'. Still hearsay only and you don't name your source for verificaton. Yip Man never attended any other open show because none of his other students would be shameless enough to officially invite him to such a rather disgraceful event. This is a matter of face, a very delicate affair in chinese culture.

Just by the way, Chu Shong-tin, 3rd student of Yip Man and his only indoor student (they lived together), is still alive today and could be asked. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.77.104.199 (talk) 12:32, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

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Leung Ting, why does everyone is giving hope on him. he is just the businessman that cheat money from others. He got kick out of wingchun school by his sifu and even from yipman, Yipman invited journalist, reporters and had a conference about kicking him out of wingchun school.If you ask him this question, he will never admit it. The reason he got kicked out of wingchun school by Yipman and his sifu is the first time he joined the wingchun school, later on, he spent 15.00 dollars to print his face and some other things onto it to show off. For us Wingchun practitioners, we keep it low profiles, not like others showing off by putting vedio clips in the net.

doubtful linage

Questions about his linage from Yip Man is a well-known controversy in the martial art world and on the Internet. Whether he is authenitic Wing Tsun is a matter of NPOV. However, the existence of the controversy is fact that worth mentioning. The mention of the controversy is repeatedly removed from the article and this talk page. Is this censorship in wikipedia??? Kowloonese 22:16, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

I was pretty sure he was a student of Leung Sheung, but I admit I can't remember the reference. He is involved heavily with the VTAA, so I don't think anything implying he didn't study somewhere under Yip Man belongs here as credible. Rpf 14:00, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Do The Research

Grandmaster Leung Ting founded the IWTA (International WingTsun Association) in 1973 and since that time it has grown to encompass more than 64 countries. His WingTsun™ system has gained world fame, not only among martial arts enthusiasts but among many of the world's police, military, and anti-terrorist units owing to its effectiveness. As one of the most prolific martial artists in the world, he is regularly sought out for instruction by numerous celebrities such as Jackie Chan and quite a few martial arts champions.

Often imitated but never duplicated, the worldwide success of Grandmaster Leung Ting's organization has made him a controversional figure at times. Sectarian political attacks by those who would question his lineage or credibility can do little to dismiss the success and popularity he has brought to the art of WingTsun™.

One need only do a little research on the Internet to see that Leung Ting WingTsun™ has one of the largest and most respected followings of any martial art in the world.

Reliable source on just who he learned under

Can we confirm he was trained under Yip Man or under Leung Sheung's own school? Leung Sheung keeps coming to mind here, perhaps his greatest influence or something similar. I remember an article mentioning he attended the funeral of Yip Man and implying something about his lineage. Anyone remember this source? Rpf 14:04, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Someone did add a paragraph or two in the article which mentioned this funeral incident but unfortunately the way in which they added it to the article was inappropriate, they also failed to add a citation, and they were blocked for repeated vandalism. Perhaps someone else could research this though.--Mista-X 17:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Got it--Page1 http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i99/leungtingscandal/06-29-2006111304AM.jpg

Page2 http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i99/leungtingscandal/06-29-2006111346AM.jpg

Page3 http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i99/leungtingscandal/06-29-2006111426AM.jpg

Page4 http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i99/leungtingscandal/06-29-2006111513AM.jpg

The claim is that he is 3rd generation. I think we need other sources before advertising this. Rpf 14:22, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Another (WT) source disputes this --http://www.wingtsun.nl/Aboutw2.htm. The most plausable story on the face of it is that he was a student of Leung Sheung who may have had additional private tutelage from Yip Man. This makes Leung Ting feel special and he starts making big claims. Some other brothers get upset and consequently Leung Sheung decides to deny ever teaching him. How much of that last paragraph is independant research and how much of it is logical conclusions based on the facts? Someone else can make the call -- Rpf 14:45, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I think the fact that the topic itself is controversial (and most likely belongs in the controversy section) shows the answer to this. Its unverifyable in either direction, as Yip Man did not do rankings, certificates, keep a handwritten family tree, etc. You can only go by what either side is saying (which changes depending on their relationship with Leung Ting, like with the whole Leung Ting/Yip Chun feud around '99-'00). To keep NPOV the best thing that can be done is present resources for both sides of the argument and let the reader decide. --Marty Goldberg 07:35, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

The only people who know are a) Yip Man and b) Leung Ting. One is dead, the other has said his position. It is undeniable that Ting and Man knew each other well, and were friendly. There is (very minor and pretty refutable) controversy over one photo out of thousands that show the two together. The photographer of the photo has said Leung Ting was there, which is pretty damning evidence if you ask me. It is a non-controversy, mostly kept alive by the constant bickering many martial arts schools perpetuate - especially as the WT system is something of a maverick (throwing out many older systems of teaching). Honestly - to anyone that actually has researched this its the equivilent of stupid celebrity gossip... DarkCryst 19:39, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

DarkCryst, what you call "very minor and pretty refutable controversy", is actually common sense in Hongkong's martial arts society. Leung Ting has been condemned as a traitor to the school of Wing Chun back in 1979 (when he stated to be "Head of the Wing Chun School") by almost everybody who has a reputation to teach Wing Chun in China. Wong Sheun Leung, Ip Chun, Leung Sheung and others testified against him. In fact there is not a single voice out there that validates Leung Ting's claims. Therefore, I suggest to not mention Ip Man as Leung Ting's teacher in the article, but include the note that he claims to have been tought by him, with sources to these claims. At the moment, the article suggests that the claim is true but disputed, which IS biased - because Leung Ting is the only one who makes that claim. If we want to maintain a NPOV, we cannot do this. Why is it "undeniable that Ting and Man knew each other well, and were friendly"? Unlike you state, there aren't "thousands" of photos showing them together. Just a few, and they are often used to disprove LT's claims rather than vice versa. That's why there was a need for fakery in the first place. If you really had done a proper research on the topic, you would not call it "the equivilent of stupid celebrity gossip". To be honest, I think the 1979's Wu-Lin T'ieh along with his condemnation as a traitor should be mentioned because it is a proven and undisputed fact that it took place and the famous people attended the meeting, making their (disputable) statements. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hkghost (talk • contribs) 10:16, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps "thousands" was the wrong word choice. Would "loads" or "numerous" be better for you? There are many that show the two men together in a variety of places - this is why I say it is undeniable they knew each other well. The rest of your points are the usual unverifiable, petty, unsubstantiated "equivilent of stupid celebrity gossip" I was talking about. I mean really..? "condemed as a traitor"? Come on. Or "almost everyone who has a reputation"? If by reputation you mean "conflict of interest" then sure - most of those names also claim some kind of 'special' right to the art. None of that gossipy pettiness speaks to the main point - yes the fact that he was the last "closed door" student is disputed - fine. I have never said anything different. It's the photo "controversy" that is stupid. When the actual photographer - one of the few people that was actually THERE says it is a real photo and not doctored... anyone claiming the contrary must present evidence. That is why I call it a "pretty refutable controversy" - it has already been refuted by two of the three people present, the third is dead. Stop perpetuating this pathetic "No my martial art style/master/school is better than yours" mentality.

Proposed Merge Wing Tsun to Leung Ting

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was to Merge Peter Rehse (talk) 10:02, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

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Consensus of a discussion on merging Wing Tsun to Wing Chun was that it is better to merge style specific information into the founder of Wing Tsun's article with an opportunity for further discussion. This would keep it in line with other styles of Wing Chun and also avoid the huge overlap of information currently in the Wing Tsun article with Wing Chun.Peter Rehse (talk) 09:24, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

• Support I was the one who brought forward the original Wing Tsun to Wing Chun merge discussion and the reasoning that built that consensus is one that I think applies strongly. Most of the variants of Wing Chun are only as notable as their founders (aside from being variants of a wide-spread martial art). As such it makes sense that anything specific to the founder's variant of the martial art should be addressed in the founder's article. Simonm223 (talk) 13:59, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
• Support Every other sub branch is represented in the head's article, not their own. --Marty Goldberg (talk) 15:38, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.