Talk:Australia

Semi-protected edit request on 5 January 2014

In the section 'Religion' reads: Since the arrival of the First Fleet of British ships in 1788, Christianity has grown to be the major religion. Consequently, the Christian festivals of Christmas and Easter are public holidays, the skylines of Australian cities and towns are marked by church and cathedral spires, and the Christian churches have played an integral role in the development of education, health and welfare services in Australia.

The statement that the skylines of Australian cities and towns are marked by church and cathedral spires is completely false. Not only are Cathedrals only present in Brisbane, Sydney, Newcastle, Perth, Melbourne and Adelaide, but the skylines of most of these cities are among the highest in the world (See list of tallest cities: Brisbane, Gold Coast, Sydney, Melbourne, Perth). Cathedrals in these cities are completely overshadowed and impossible to see on a skyline view, with skyscrapers and towers far more prominent. Almost every Australian town includes a church, however, and it may be more prudent to make this remark instead. 80.110.26.244 (talk) 21:37, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

 Not done Opinions appear to be divided. Please continue to discuss this with the users who have engaged you here. Joefromrandb (talk) 19:11, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Yes, that does seem to be a somewhat dated, clichéd view. Even the wording "...has grown to be the major religion" seems a bit odd. It probably stopped growing several decades ago, and was much more the major religion back closer to the days of the First Fleet (which, of course, was almost all Christian) than now. Not sure how to correct it. HiLo48 (talk) 22:45, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Christ Church Cathedral is the highest building on the Newcastle skyline.

The argument that "Not only are Cathedrals only present in" ignores part of what the text says. i.e. "cities and towns are marked by church and cathedral spires". (emphasis added) Certainly, cathedrals in most cities are overshadowed by other, much taller buildings but in most towns, the local churches are often the tallest building and there are a lot more towns than cities. Non-Christian places of worship (Buddhist temples, mosques etc) don't generally exist outside the major cities as dominant buildings. Even in the cities, churches do dominate the skyline as one travels around the city - the skyline isn't limited to just what's in the CBD, which is where the tall buildings are generally concentrated. And certainly, there are cities where cathedrals dominate, see the photo of the Newcastle CBD to the right. --AussieLegend (✉) 04:07, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

The existing sentence "Since the arrival of the First Fleet of British ships in 1788, Christianity has grown to be the major religion." is perfectly reasonable. Prior to the First Fleet, the major religion was "the animist beliefs of Australia's indigenous people" referred to in the previous paragraph. Since/after the arrival of the First Fleet, Christianity has risen from zero (or possibly small number of christians in 1st fleet divided by much larger number of indigenous people already there) to 61%, significantly higher than the 7% of non-Christian religions, so "major religion" is reasonable in that context. Mitch Ames (talk) 11:20, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

It shows your remarkable lack of understanding of Australian geography that you totally forgot half the cathedrals in Australia. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cathedrals_in_Australia And I will agree cathedrals and churchs do dominate or at least very much influence some skylines, even in Hobart, a capital city, the cathedral's and churches are a major feature.JTdale ^Talk

The first european to visit Australia were Portugal

Reference: arshad's biography 2014

You can see the picture of the kangaroo!

[1]

--77.47.30.210 (talk) 17:59, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

This claim is very much disputed, and this recent discovery is still being discussed. There is an article on this theory at Theory of the Portuguese discovery of Australia. --Dmol (talk) 18:14, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

More likely an Aardvark according to Dr Peter Pridmore of La Trobe University, who is surely a reliable source. [2] Anyway, the New York Gallery selling the manuscript would probably be very pleased with all the publicity.Nickm57 (talk) 06:43, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

A kangaroo's huge tail is one of its major defining features, and that pic doesn't show it. HiLo48 (talk) 07:03, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Edit request: 2nd paragraph - gold rush?

The second paragraph is a great comprehensive summary of Australian history, on the whole. However it doesn't mention what is responsible for an explosion in population growth is the gold rush. Please let's dispel the myth that most first migrant Australians were convicts and set the record straight that most were gold miners.

Edit request: Phrasing

 Done

> "and settled through penal transportation to the colony of New South Wales from 26 January 1788"

This implies the entirety of the settlement of Australia was via penal transportation. Could this be changed to "and first settled through penal transportation to the colony of New South Wales from 26 January 1788"? Thanks. 60.242.48.18 (talk) 01:13, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Sounds reasonable, so I've done it - although I prefer "initially" to "first". Mitch Ames (talk) 09:57, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Edit request

> "In neighbouring New Zealand, but less commonly in Australia itself, the noun "Aussie" is also used to refer to the nation, as distinct from its residents.[27] The sporting anthem C'mon Aussie C'mon is an example of local use of Aussie as synonym for Australia."

The source (27) actually says that the word 'Aussie' used to refer to the nation is "infuriating" for Australians. And there is nothing about the sporting anthem to suggest that Aussie is being used to refer to the nation, as opposed to an Australian. Please change to "In neighbouring New Zealand, but never in Australia itself, the noun "Aussie" is also used to refer to the nation, as distinct from its residents.[27]", and remove the reference to C'mon Aussie C'mon entirely. Thanks! 60.242.48.18 (talk) 01:18, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

 Not done There are several sources, including this that confirm Aussie is used as a synonym for Australia. The Macquarie dictionary is another, as is this. Flat Out let's discuss it 10:03, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Our article C'mon Aussie C'mon says explicitly that:

In this instance "Aussie" refers to Australia.

I don't have access to that ref to check it. Mitch Ames (talk) 10:58, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

I don't see that in the reference at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.242.48.18 (talk) 05:36, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Presumably it's the last paragraph (I've added the bold here):

Mr Packer bought Mojo's line 'Come on Australia, show us what you're made of', which eventually morphed into C'mon Aussie, C'mon, ...

Mitch Ames (talk) 13:02, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

2011 source for 2013 data

Resolved

The article says that "Melbourne reached first place on The Economist's 2011, 2012 and 2013 world's most livable cities lists ..." but cites a source dated 2011. Is there a later version of the reference available somewhere? Mitch Ames (talk) 03:43, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

2012 and 2013 sources are added, so the {{fails verification}} tag is removed. --Quest for Truth (talk) 17:45, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. Mitch Ames (talk) 09:37, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 February 2014

Why is there no section acknowledging the contribution made by Australian scientists? Is Australia not proud of it's scientists and scientific achievements? 139.168.133.90 (talk) 04:26, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Not done: Presumably because no-one has written such a section, there is certainly no reason not to have such a section.
If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to any article. - Arjayay (talk) 19:26, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Different Information

at the start it sais that australia has 7,692,024 square kilometers of land however at the start of Geography and Climate it sais 7,617,930 square kilometres. could someone please fix this up — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.181.23.18 (talk) 10:34, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

The area figure in the infobox is the area of Australia as a country, the smaller figure is specified as the area of the landmass—excluding bodies of water such as lakes—that's why they are different. --Canley (talk) 10:40, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Administrator of Norfolk Island

Under the Australian Territories Section of this article it states that Owen Walsh is the Administrator of Norfolk Island. Walsh was replaced in 2012 by Neil Pope.

120.148.6.192 (talk) 07:47, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Immigration Ships

I assume that recent immigration might be too complicated and/or contentious to document. But would it be possible to make a list of the immigrant ships and voyages before 1900 ? I was surprised to discover that some relatives had apparently sailed from Britain to Australia in a sailing ship of only 175 tons (Half as big as Captain Cook's ship) in the 1850s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Gil_Blas

List of Registered Vessels in - THE COMMERCIAL CODE OF SIGNALS FOR THE USE OF ALL NATIONS, ... Published by WILLIAM MITCHELL, 1859

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=-ukNAAAAQAAJ 109.150.47.176 (talk) 03:48, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 March 2014

In the section Culture->Media, I would like "politics" to be added, as the newspapers in Australia (example: The Age) always mention about the politicians. There is always a lot of talk about them (the politicians) and television also mentions about their policy/factional battle/whatever happens. I am a very young Australian who reads the papers everyday. 120.149.115.83 (talk) 07:28, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Australian politics are covered in the article in its "Government" section. The newspapers cover a very wide range of topics, and it goes without saying that politics receives prominent coverage (though generally not in as much detail as sport or celebrity gossip) Nick-D (talk) 07:43, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

German map's use of the word "Australia" in 1545

See the short video on the right.

Discussion of Baudin and Matthew Flinders' race to map Australia.

I think this needs to be mentioned. We discuss the history of the word Australia in English (starting in 1625), but this map predated Hakluyt by 80 years.

By the way, the speaker dismisses it as coincidence, but if it doesn't show a rudimentary view of Cape York, the Gulf of Carpentaria and Arnhem Land, I'll be a monkey's uncle. 1545. That's 61 years before the first recognised sighting by the Dutchman Willem Janszoon in 1606 (curiously, also in the Cape/Gulf). Interesting ... -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 01:45, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Not sure what to make of this, but here is a Sydney Morning Herald article, as well as another article with the same story. Wikipeterproject (talk) 03:53, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 January 2014

In the section 'Religion' reads: Since the arrival of the First Fleet of British ships in 1788, Christianity has grown to be the major religion. Consequently, the Christian festivals of Christmas and Easter are public holidays, the skylines of Australian cities and towns are marked by church and cathedral spires, and the Christian churches have played an integral role in the development of education, health and welfare services in Australia.

The statement that the skylines of Australian cities and towns are marked by church and cathedral spires is completely false. Not only are Cathedrals only present in Brisbane, Sydney, Newcastle, Perth, Melbourne and Adelaide, but the skylines of most of these cities are among the highest in the world (See list of tallest cities: Brisbane, Gold Coast, Sydney, Melbourne, Perth). Cathedrals in these cities are completely overshadowed and impossible to see on a skyline view, with skyscrapers and towers far more prominent. Almost every Australian town includes a church, however, and it may be more prudent to make this remark instead. 80.110.26.244 (talk) 21:37, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

 Not done Opinions appear to be divided. Please continue to discuss this with the users who have engaged you here. Joefromrandb (talk) 19:11, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Yes, that does seem to be a somewhat dated, clichéd view. Even the wording "...has grown to be the major religion" seems a bit odd. It probably stopped growing several decades ago, and was much more the major religion back closer to the days of the First Fleet (which, of course, was almost all Christian) than now. Not sure how to correct it. HiLo48 (talk) 22:45, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Christ Church Cathedral is the highest building on the Newcastle skyline.

The argument that "Not only are Cathedrals only present in" ignores part of what the text says. i.e. "cities and towns are marked by church and cathedral spires". (emphasis added) Certainly, cathedrals in most cities are overshadowed by other, much taller buildings but in most towns, the local churches are often the tallest building and there are a lot more towns than cities. Non-Christian places of worship (Buddhist temples, mosques etc) don't generally exist outside the major cities as dominant buildings. Even in the cities, churches do dominate the skyline as one travels around the city - the skyline isn't limited to just what's in the CBD, which is where the tall buildings are generally concentrated. And certainly, there are cities where cathedrals dominate, see the photo of the Newcastle CBD to the right. --AussieLegend (✉) 04:07, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

The existing sentence "Since the arrival of the First Fleet of British ships in 1788, Christianity has grown to be the major religion." is perfectly reasonable. Prior to the First Fleet, the major religion was "the animist beliefs of Australia's indigenous people" referred to in the previous paragraph. Since/after the arrival of the First Fleet, Christianity has risen from zero (or possibly small number of christians in 1st fleet divided by much larger number of indigenous people already there) to 61%, significantly higher than the 7% of non-Christian religions, so "major religion" is reasonable in that context. Mitch Ames (talk) 11:20, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

It shows your remarkable lack of understanding of Australian geography that you totally forgot half the cathedrals in Australia. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cathedrals_in_Australia And I will agree cathedrals and churchs do dominate or at least very much influence some skylines, even in Hobart, a capital city, the cathedral's and churches are a major feature.JTdale ^Talk

The first european to visit Australia were Portugal

Reference: arshad's biography 2014

You can see the picture of the kangaroo!

[3]

--77.47.30.210 (talk) 17:59, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

This claim is very much disputed, and this recent discovery is still being discussed. There is an article on this theory at Theory of the Portuguese discovery of Australia. --Dmol (talk) 18:14, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

More likely an Aardvark according to Dr Peter Pridmore of La Trobe University, who is surely a reliable source. [4] Anyway, the New York Gallery selling the manuscript would probably be very pleased with all the publicity.Nickm57 (talk) 06:43, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

A kangaroo's huge tail is one of its major defining features, and that pic doesn't show it. HiLo48 (talk) 07:03, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Edit request: 2nd paragraph - gold rush?

The second paragraph is a great comprehensive summary of Australian history, on the whole. However it doesn't mention what is responsible for an explosion in population growth is the gold rush. Please let's dispel the myth that most first migrant Australians were convicts and set the record straight that most were gold miners.

Edit request: Phrasing

 Done

> "and settled through penal transportation to the colony of New South Wales from 26 January 1788"

This implies the entirety of the settlement of Australia was via penal transportation. Could this be changed to "and first settled through penal transportation to the colony of New South Wales from 26 January 1788"? Thanks. 60.242.48.18 (talk) 01:13, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Sounds reasonable, so I've done it - although I prefer "initially" to "first". Mitch Ames (talk) 09:57, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Edit request

> "In neighbouring New Zealand, but less commonly in Australia itself, the noun "Aussie" is also used to refer to the nation, as distinct from its residents.[27] The sporting anthem C'mon Aussie C'mon is an example of local use of Aussie as synonym for Australia."

The source (27) actually says that the word 'Aussie' used to refer to the nation is "infuriating" for Australians. And there is nothing about the sporting anthem to suggest that Aussie is being used to refer to the nation, as opposed to an Australian. Please change to "In neighbouring New Zealand, but never in Australia itself, the noun "Aussie" is also used to refer to the nation, as distinct from its residents.[27]", and remove the reference to C'mon Aussie C'mon entirely. Thanks! 60.242.48.18 (talk) 01:18, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

 Not done There are several sources, including this that confirm Aussie is used as a synonym for Australia. The Macquarie dictionary is another, as is this. Flat Out let's discuss it 10:03, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Our article C'mon Aussie C'mon says explicitly that:

In this instance "Aussie" refers to Australia.

I don't have access to that ref to check it. Mitch Ames (talk) 10:58, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

I don't see that in the reference at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.242.48.18 (talk) 05:36, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Presumably it's the last paragraph (I've added the bold here):

Mr Packer bought Mojo's line 'Come on Australia, show us what you're made of', which eventually morphed into C'mon Aussie, C'mon, ...

Mitch Ames (talk) 13:02, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

2011 source for 2013 data

Resolved

The article says that "Melbourne reached first place on The Economist's 2011, 2012 and 2013 world's most livable cities lists ..." but cites a source dated 2011. Is there a later version of the reference available somewhere? Mitch Ames (talk) 03:43, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

2012 and 2013 sources are added, so the {{fails verification}} tag is removed. --Quest for Truth (talk) 17:45, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. Mitch Ames (talk) 09:37, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 February 2014

Why is there no section acknowledging the contribution made by Australian scientists? Is Australia not proud of it's scientists and scientific achievements? 139.168.133.90 (talk) 04:26, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Not done: Presumably because no-one has written such a section, there is certainly no reason not to have such a section.
If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to any article. - Arjayay (talk) 19:26, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Different Information

at the start it sais that australia has 7,692,024 square kilometers of land however at the start of Geography and Climate it sais 7,617,930 square kilometres. could someone please fix this up — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.181.23.18 (talk) 10:34, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

The area figure in the infobox is the area of Australia as a country, the smaller figure is specified as the area of the landmass—excluding bodies of water such as lakes—that's why they are different. --Canley (talk) 10:40, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Administrator of Norfolk Island

Under the Australian Territories Section of this article it states that Owen Walsh is the Administrator of Norfolk Island. Walsh was replaced in 2012 by Neil Pope.

120.148.6.192 (talk) 07:47, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Immigration Ships

I assume that recent immigration might be too complicated and/or contentious to document. But would it be possible to make a list of the immigrant ships and voyages before 1900 ? I was surprised to discover that some relatives had apparently sailed from Britain to Australia in a sailing ship of only 175 tons (Half as big as Captain Cook's ship) in the 1850s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Gil_Blas

List of Registered Vessels in - THE COMMERCIAL CODE OF SIGNALS FOR THE USE OF ALL NATIONS, ... Published by WILLIAM MITCHELL, 1859

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=-ukNAAAAQAAJ 109.150.47.176 (talk) 03:48, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 March 2014

In the section Culture->Media, I would like "politics" to be added, as the newspapers in Australia (example: The Age) always mention about the politicians. There is always a lot of talk about them (the politicians) and television also mentions about their policy/factional battle/whatever happens. I am a very young Australian who reads the papers everyday. 120.149.115.83 (talk) 07:28, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Australian politics are covered in the article in its "Government" section. The newspapers cover a very wide range of topics, and it goes without saying that politics receives prominent coverage (though generally not in as much detail as sport or celebrity gossip) Nick-D (talk) 07:43, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

German map's use of the word "Australia" in 1545

See the short video on the right.

Discussion of Baudin and Matthew Flinders' race to map Australia.

I think this needs to be mentioned. We discuss the history of the word Australia in English (starting in 1625), but this map predated Hakluyt by 80 years.

By the way, the speaker dismisses it as coincidence, but if it doesn't show a rudimentary view of Cape York, the Gulf of Carpentaria and Arnhem Land, I'll be a monkey's uncle. 1545. That's 61 years before the first recognised sighting by the Dutchman Willem Janszoon in 1606 (curiously, also in the Cape/Gulf). Interesting ... -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 01:45, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Not sure what to make of this, but here is a Sydney Morning Herald article, as well as another article with the same story. Wikipeterproject (talk) 03:53, 17 March 2014 (UTC)