Talk:Smedley Butler

video: war is racked

When this video message, perhaps by General Smedley Butler himself, was recorded? Placing it in time-line is important to put it in proper place in article. Obviously it is after ww1. Somewhere in 193x? Is it an authentic recording or some retrofit 'actoring' on/of his thesis or even out of his message? Who know more and why if it genuine it is not in article ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.90.197.244 (talk) 16:03, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

"Fighting Quaker"?

Any sources Can anyone explain how he came to be a violent Quaker? This is obviously a deep contradiction in terms, so I'd be interested in someone shedding some light on this. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 03:38, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

I don't believe any of the sources describe this other than to say that he was "a man of complicated beliefs" or something to that effect. One possibility is that his father was pro military and even though he was a quaker believed in an "honest damn" on occassion so a certain against the grain attitude ran in the family. It should also be noted that although his career events hailed him as a hero he frequently dismissed that by doing things like trying to refuse one of his medals of honor and talking about his views on American businesses intervention in the Carribbean (Commonly referred to as the banana wars) after he retired. All I can say is he was a conrtradictory kind of guy. --Kumioko (talk) 05:02, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Not all Quakers are pacifist. Richard Nixon was, at least nominally, a Quaker and he served in World War II - albeit in a non-combat capacity. Butler was undoubtedly attracted to the military in general and the Marine Corps in particular. Maybe he joined the Marines out of rebellion towards his parents. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.200.190.188 (talk) 14:47, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Smedley Butler

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Smedley Butler's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "nris":

• From Butler House (West Chester, Pennsylvania): "National Register Information System". National Register of Historic Places. National Park Service. July 9, 2010.
• From Marine Barracks, Washington, D.C.: "National Register Information System". National Register of Historic Places. National Park Service. March 13, 2009.
• From Thomas S. Butler: "National Register Information System". National Register of Historic Places. National Park Service. January 23, 2007.
• From Academy of Music (Philadelphia): "National Register Information System". National Register of Historic Places. National Park Service. March 15, 2006.
• From National Register of Historic Places: National Register Information System, National Register of Historic Places, National Park Service. Retrieved October 11, 2011.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 17:19, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Banana Wars, Siege of Granada

In the info box, under Banana Wars, it says Butler battled in The Siege of Granada. The Siege of Granada link takes you to The article "Fall of Granada"(redirected), which is about the battle/siege in Granada that happened in the 15th century. Plain wrong.

I don´t know these things but it seems to me that no battle of significance occured when they captured Granada during the U.S occupation if Nicaragua. Read this article under Occupation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_occupation_of_Nicaragua — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sprachspiel (talk • contribs) 22:40, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Lede Discussion BRD

There has been some work on the lede. Rather than see edit warring begin I'd suggest that we reach a consensus here before further changes.

• I think mentioning the Business Plot twice in the lede is undue, but left it in so that could be discussed here.
• Refs are commonly in the lede of bio articles.
• Edits that suggest that the Business Plot was a true coup effort and more than an allegation of Butler's fly in the face of the consensus at the main article page, academic historical analysis, concurrent reporting at the time, and long term consensus at this page.
• It makes sense to have the lede summarise the article chronologically (as the article is organized) rather than talk about his military career, then the business plot, then awards earned in his military career, and then the business plot again.

Those are my initial thoughts as to the lede changes. Capitalismojo (talk) 17:00, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

I generally agree with Capitalismojo, but I suggest the lede should not be chronological it should be in order of importance--most important (Biz Plot) first. In the main text I added documentation re his activities on the far left in 1930s Rjensen (talk) 17:23, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Well the there is an argument for having the Business Plot first. Some would say, though, that his military service and awards made him notable and lend notability to the incident. Ultimately, I just think that the lede reads better chronologically. It's short enough that being listed second in the lede doesn't detract from the understanding. Capitalismojo (talk) 17:31, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

His high rank did give him credibility. If he had been a retired major few people would have paid attention -- (it's unlikely that J P Morgan Co, would choose an unknown person to lead its 500,000-man army.) Rjensen (talk) 17:38, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

I have reposted this content discussion from my talk page. Capitalismojo (talk) 19:10, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

• You cannot make additions to the article, by undoing mine and then tell me to take them to talk, which is entirely hypocritical. There isn't a single mention throughout the article that Butler was a self-proclaimed Socialist or proclaimed himself left-wing and the source you dug up is clearly laughable, you do not even know how to cite a source firstly, you just took a random link from amazon which you no doubt searched up and haven't even read and pasted it into the lead, simply because an historian calls him left-wing doesn't make him so he just happened to have some similar views. Criticizing an action, for example "this business makes profit" is not a political viewpoint, its just a fact, I do not become left-wing for pointing that out. Guidelines suggest refs shouldnt be in the lead anyway, but thats besides the point. Keep this up and I'm taking this to the administrators because I do not consider this to be a disagreement on content, but someone (yourself) commiting to contentious editing and censorhsip to put forward a view, completely against Wikipedia. --JTBX (talk) 17:52, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

If you are concerned about an incident please feel free to take it to ANI. Know that I am uncertain, based on your comment, what precisely you consider that incident to be. You have made a Bold addition to the article lede. It has been reverted by several editors. You have been invited to discuss the content on the talk page. This is the essence of WP:BRD. I look forward to reaching a consensus. Capitalismojo (talk) 19:24, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

As regards the "left-wing" description. If you have problems with the book as a RS take the discussion here or to RS/N, don't edit war. I suggest that this is a good recent history that was well-received. It says "This historical biography explores the life of Butler, a little-known American Marine who exposed an alleged fascist coup to remove President Franklin D. Roosevelt from office. This text is an exploration of the political issues of the first half of the twentieth century and an examination of a complicated, valiant man who shifted from Republican ideals to anti-corporate, left-wing populism." I note that another editor has added additional material from this book into the main body of the article. This is hardly a controversial view of Butler by historians. Capitalismojo (talk) 19:24, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

section titled "EARLY LIFE" second paragraph

the paragraph is unclear in it's statements- which seem contradictory:It states he left high school thirty eight days before his 17th birthday, and then states that the school "nevertheless" awarded him his diploma on 06june, 1898- which means he was awarded his diploma before he left the school, "nevertheless". I understand that being over a hundred years ago high school may have only been three years long, etcetera, but I do not understand the inclusion of the "nevertheless" adverb. If that IS an adverb. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.68.23.15 (talk) 00:47, 21 April 2014 (UTC)