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Talk:Market–Frankford Line

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Dthomsen8 (talk | contribs) at 00:19, 14 June 2014 (clean up using AWB). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.


Tunnel route?

The article claims that the southwestward-bound Subway-Surface tunnel runs west under Walnut between 33rd and 36th, and then heads south under 36th. this can't be true, because there's a station at 36th and *Sansom*, not Walnut. furthermore, the 36th and Sansom station is, if I remember correctly, oriented north-south along 36th. My guess would be that the westward portion of the tunnel there runs under Chestnut, but I don't know, and I don't care to hazard a guess at it when the actual information is probably easily available in sources I'm not familiar with. Izzycat 17:40, 28 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Subway surface map EdK 20:37, 28 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The map is really only good for really for reference for general station location and not so much for the position of the tunnels. As for the tunnels, the SS line does not run under walnut, as it would not match up with the station on 36th street, which for it to work that way on walnut it would have to be on the corner of 36th and Walnut and not where it is (the portals for 36st stree if i recall are outside of the contempeoary art museaum, north of samsom, and the land title building? south of sansom. I think the tunnle runs under ludlow, split after 34th street to the portal for the lancaster ave line, with the rest of the lines making the turn south at 36th and ludlow. I think i can recall seeing grates on 36th between ludlow and Chestnut. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 07:56, 1 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
True. A PTC handout dated 1955 October 13 shows a somewhat better map of the then new extensions of the Market Street Subway and Surface-Car Subway. It isn't a blueprint at all, but clearly shows two trolley tracks curving southwest from the subway route to the 33rd St station, then immediately curving west between Market and Chestnut and at 34th St curving slightly north before continuing west to the route 10 portal, then turning sharply to the south under 36th St to the Samson St station, crossing under Walnut St at right angle to that street (not otherwise going under Walnut), turning southwest along Woodland to the 37th St-University station, and continuing under Woodland to the 40th St portal. EdK 01:49, 2 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That sounds pretty much like how I described it in the article. You have the actual map, though, so feel free to edit if you feel my description doesn't agree with the map. Also, the street running between and parallel to Chestnut and Walnut is Sansom, not Samson.
Sorry, i miss tha spelling all the time. Actually you can kinda guess the roter useing like google maps, or something similar, and overlay the sat photo with the street map. Using it you can see the portal curving out from under Ludlow then running parralell to it. But it took me a while to figure out how they have to make that turn down 36th, 36th isn't that wide of a street, and the buildings on the south end of the 36th and ludlow are right up to the corner, so their foundations would be in the way. But of you look on the north end of the intersection, the NE corner is the bortal so no buildings in the way, the building in the NW corner doe not come all the way to the corner but is at an ofset angle to it, which would allow a bit of a turning radius. The only other place i know that this is seen is at 34th and ludlow. The Korman center, the octogan shaped building on the Drexel campus, at least i was allways led to belive, is shaped that way because of the tunnel on the NE corner of the buliding. Now it mae be a stretch, but it does make sence. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 04:50, 3 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Attempted suicide 6/8/2006

Hey everybody, I was a passenger in the front car of the El that was struck by a jumper from the platform yesterday. I'm looking for any information regarding the jumper (amazingly, he survived the impact, crashing through the front door, but I don't know if he lived much longer afterwards) and the conductor. Any information would be greatly appreciated. --Christopher Schwartz, Philadelphia City Paper 139.84.48.249 16:12, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

How Should Stations Be Designated?

Group: I have noticed there are duplicates and inconsistencies of the listings of the SEPTA MFL stations. For example, see 5th_Street_(MFL_station) and also 5th_Street_(SEPTA_station). There are a number of other such examples. What is the consensus on how these should be depicted? Then there needs to be some wholesale consoldation and perhaps disambig pages. Professor water 11:12, 4 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Equipment Details

I would like to see some discussion of the equipment used on the line, like types of subway cars, being a third rail paddle system, the token entry/exit system and how interchanges function at Broad Street and between the trolley lines. Also, I don't know if this is in the scope of this article or some other article, but the underground pathway system between 11th and 15th street (especially around city hall) is rather intracate, though at present a lot of it has been abandoned. I've always wanted to know what the original intent and map of that area looked like. I always assumed it was part of the old interchanges w/ the Broad Street subway. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DLPanther (talk • contribs) 21:12, 18 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A "third rail paddle" is called a contact shoe Peter Horn User talk 01:51, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Star Wars @ Erie–Torresdale Station?

Some anonymous user keeps posting the idea that Erie–Torresdale (SEPTA station) was a Star Wars Space Base Station beginning in the late-1970's, and posting an e-mail address for those who want more info. I'm pretty sure Wikipedia's not a place to post e-mail addresses, phone numbers and the like, but perhaps somebody would care to tell me what this sort of thing is all about. Maybe then, they'll stop messing up the article on that station. ----DanTD (talk) 22:40, 24 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Frankford Avenue elevated problems

A recent newspaper article says that there is spalling from the concrete used in the Frankford Avenue elevated line, as a result of improper design. This should be covered in detail. --DThomsen8 (talk) 18:40, 24 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Hiroe (talk) 15:35, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You can't get to heaven on the Frankford El

...because the Frankford El goes straight to Frankford. Somebody...name that tune! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.67.104.4 (talk) 21:00, 8 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, clearly you're referring to "Beat-Up Guitar" from The Hooters album Zig Zag. Hiroe (talk) 22:36, 27 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Extension to 2nd Street question

I'm confused; According to this article, the extension to 2nd Street and the Ferry line was built in 1908 as an elevated line, but when was this section driven underground? ----DanTD (talk) 15:59, 7 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for noting this, and I've gone ahead and clarified the original construction details in the history section. I may add some further refs to this later; but I cannot currently find my copy of The Road To Upper Darby. Hiroe (talk) 16:53, 9 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Who created the Market-Frankford Line?

The article notes that the MFL was built entirely with private money, no taxes involved. But it fails to name the company or the personalities involved. Was it controversial at the time? Why did they choose broad gauge? Why does this gauge differ from everything else in the area? — Solo Owl (talk) 17:54, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Be it noted that the SEPTA Subway–Surface Trolley Lines use the same oddball track gauge. Peter Horn User talk 00:49, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It was PTC that built the subway. This is covered in detail in The Road To Upper Darby. Still need to find it to answer some of the questions about the "why" of the gauge. Hiroe (talk) 03:07, 8 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The track gauge

Jane's World Railways, 1969 - 1970 edition page 715, gives the track gauge as 62.25 rather than 62.5 UrbanRail.net. Which one is right? Personally I would trust Jane's. Peter Horn User talk 00:56, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Jane's is wrong, actually. It has been noted several places (one of which is again The Road To Upper Darby) that the track gauge differs from the streetcar network by 1/4". None of the historians (mostly EPTC guys) I've asked can explain why, much less provide reliable sourced answers. Hiroe (talk) 03:07, 8 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Having finally found my copy of The Road To Upper Darby, I am dismayed to discover that while it does state that the track gauge is 62.5 (page 17); it does not explain the why. Hiroe (talk) 03:05, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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