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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by DunDunDunt (talk | contribs) at 07:44, 28 June 2014. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Heaven Sent Gaming

Heaven Sent Gaming (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Non-notable business website. Almost no hits on a Google search. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 06:13, 26 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"Keep", not a business though, it's a website with enough sources to warrant a stub. 97.123.55.117 (talk) 06:28, 26 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"Keep", this subject is listed on several databases. And, I've been doing library research, and the tertiary sources will be added once research is complete; though they're not required for the article to exist. More time is needed for this article to become more than a stub. DunDunDunt (talk) 06:39, 26 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"Strong Keep" just found an AMAZING search option on Google to find more information on this topic. Google Search DunDunDunt (talk) 12:17, 26 June 2014 (UTC) — Note to closing admin: DunDunDunt (talk • contribs) is the creator of the page that is the subject of this XfD. [reply]
"Keep", I wouldn't think that I, or anything Isabel and I are connected with, would be within the scope of Wikipedia. But, DunDunDunt seems interested in doing research on my Heaven Sent Gaming project. And, according to MediaWiki Commons they say that entry into authority records, in reference to Isabel and I, "makes both of you relevant and therefore photos of you guys are in scope of the project". I don't think I'm notable or interesting; but, apparently others are arguing otherwise. Smile Lee (talk) 07:24, 26 June 2014 (UTC) — Note to closing admin: Smile Lee (talk • contribs) appears to have a close connection with the subject of the article being discussed. [reply]
I have added an image to this article, adding images is all I will be doing to edit this or any article related to me or Heaven Sent Gaming. I'm not interested in myself as an encyclopedic subject. Smile Lee (talk) 07:42, 26 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"Strong Keep" I change my vote, after reading what Mr. Lucero said I will be supporting him and Heaven Sent Gaming "as an encyclopedic subject". I was only moderately interested in this. Mostly I like to edit skateboarding articles on the 'pedia. Ever thought of skating Mario? Maybe at least do an HSGplays episode of Tony Hawk's Pro Skater!!! 97.123.55.117 (talk) 07:48, 26 June 2014 (UTC) This template must be substituted.[reply]
You've already !voted once already. What is this, vote early and vote often?  Philg88 ♦talk 05:48, 27 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I've corrected my double vote, and I'll assume good faith that 97.123.55.117 had a another accidental double vote. I think I've corrected it. Wikipedia's AFD is Consensus, that "is not based on a tally of votes, but on reasonable, logical, policy-based arguments." I wouldn't think to double vote. Back to consensus, in my prior post I refuted the "Almost no hits on a Google search" argument. DunDunDunt (talk) 06:16, 27 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of New Mexico-related deletion discussions.  Philg88 ♦talk 07:44, 26 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:15, 26 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Websites-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 14:15, 26 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I'm not a new user, I have more than a few edits, I don't care much about this subject. My current project is Al Hurricane and the discography of that musician. Also, we can't know the entire contribution history of the anonymous user, since they cycle through IPs. Smile Lee (talk) 23:00, 26 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Per nom. Notability failure. I'm not seeing the required significant coverage in reliable independent sources.  Philg88 ♦talk 06:40, 27 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment, the Collins College newsletter, an accredited American higher learning institution, and verifiable with a cache. Also, The Albuquerque Tribune tidbit is unfortunately unverifiable via any online cache I can find. Never-the-less, there are several other reliable independent sources. "significant coverage" is followed properly as well; the article is already a few paragraphs long and only relies on three primary sources thus far. This subject's "significant coverage" is also covered via each of it's individual published titles, and those related to the subject; meaning the article has plenty of coverage to allow for growth. NOTE HOWEVER I don't think that their individual creations or creators warrant individual articles yet, until coverage is large enough on each individual subject, this article SHOULD be used as comprehensive on the subject. DunDunDunt (talk) 07:17, 27 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Philg88, NinjaRobotPirate, and Smile Lee: thank you for helping to make this article more reliable and allowing me to explain its subject's notability better. DunDunDunt (talk) 07:17, 27 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, I'd like to note that this article was requested YEARS ago, Wikipedia:Requested_articles/Arts_and_entertainment/Internet_and_tech_culture. 97.123.7.170 (talk) 08:47, 27 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep, just edited the article, I would recommend a full blown "History" section to be composed into a sequential set of events in a narrative fashion. The "Works" section will be a nice resource, but that "History" section I mentioned would be a pretty beastly project. After a few searches around the 'net there are more than enough notable sources to work with. The annoying part is that this subject's fields and publishing history are such a pain in the ass to reference in a single Google Search (YOU LITERALLY HAVE TO LOOK UP EVERY SINGLE TOPIC SEPARATELY! JUST TO FIND SOME NOTABLE SOURCES!!!). This article wouldn't just be a joy to have on Wikipedia, which I believe it would, it would also help out anyone trying to find out some god-damned information about these subjects! No wonder this was requested so long ago. 97.123.7.170 (talk) 09:56, 27 June 2014 (UTC) This template must be substituted.[reply]
Being placed on the "requested article" list has no influence on notability. Kolbasz (talk) 11:28, 27 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: Notability not established. WP:NCORP requires significant coverage in reliable, independent secondary sources. The Albuquerque Tribune is the only reliable, independent secondary source in the article, but the citation is only a trivial mention. Kolbasz (talk) 11:11, 27 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - Somehow didn't see the AfD notice and started to write my own, so will just paste it here: Fails WP:CORPDEPTH. It appears all of the many sources here either published by the organization, social networking sites like LinkedIn, or not about Heaven Sent Gaming but about one of the comics/bands they publish. The WP article seems to focus on the individual titles they happened to publish and seems largely promotional (especially given the sourcing). --— Rhododendrites talk |  16:13, 27 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment to the closer - Please note the abundance of SPAs, similar voting style, enthusiasm, and existing connection to the article among seemingly all of the Keep votes. --— Rhododendrites talk |  16:15, 27 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • To be more specific, all of the keep votes so far: DunDunDunt (page creator), Smile Lee (seems to be an owner/founder of the subject of the article), 97.123.55 (SPA), 97.123.7.170 (SPA). Note the shared enthusiasm, with exclamation points and whatnot, and in particular the shared range of the two IPs. --— Rhododendrites talk |  16:19, 27 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
      • Yes, I noticed that, too, but it's probably best to assume good faith and chalk it up to shared enthusiasm by a small cadre of supporters. I nominated another article created by the same user, and it has attracted none of the enthusiastic repeat votes of this one. If these were truly sock puppets, I think they would have also posted on the other article's AfD. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 18:05, 27 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
        • Indeed, thanks for following up on that. I'll just clarify that I don't think everybody saying keep is a sock -- just that it consists of the page creator, page subject, and two IPs which, in addition to being from the same IP range, share a similar style of comment, having both changed keep to strong keep, using lots of exclamation marks, and so on. --— Rhododendrites talk |  18:36, 27 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
          • Also note that, though Mario is the subject of the page, he does not seem to have any intention of keeping up this article. So it's not like he seems to have a dog in the fight, and he has not re-voted. I got a bit pissed off last night about finding sources on this subject, that was what the exclamation marks were about, they were not about my excitement for the article. I would also like to reiterate that I feel as though that this topic has the notability when in combination with it's related subjects, which are as of now, not entirely covered in this article. 97.123.7.170 (talk) 21:26, 27 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Very Strong Keep: it passes WP:NCORP "Determining notability does not necessarily depend on things such as fame, importance, or popularity", those anonymous IPs are in and around New Mexico; meaning the subject is regional, but discussed. Also, Google search turns up plenty on this "organization (commercial or otherwise), or any of its products and services". The college note and Albuquerque Tribune mention is "Independent of the subject", "Reliable", and non-trivial as they come from different regions (Arizona and New Mexico). Finally the IMDB, AllMusic, and Spotify, and other database listings adds verifiability on the subject(s). The article is a bit short though, needs more information. As Bruddah IZ would say, "I've seen it all, done it all, known it all." This subject is different, but it's worthy of notice.BeachParadise (talk) 23:15, 27 June 2014 (UTC) This template must be substituted.[reply]
@Rhododendrites:, my account is not a single purpose account, I have had another account listed on my user page, and have edited anonymously prior. I focus on Hawaii-related articles, but once in a while like to edit Southwestern US articles too. Please remove that tag you are mis-categorizing me. I'll assume that you mean well, but I also want to insure that you are not attempting to discredit my fair assessment on the article. BeachParadise (talk) 00:59, 28 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@BeachParadise: I see. But the other account you mention also has only 2 edits and was created in the last couple days. Although FYI the "spa" tag I added doesn't mean your opinion doesn't count. As you can probably understand, though, it's highly unusual for a very new user to know about AfD and participate in an AfD, so when someone with a new account does so, and has few other edits, it's almost always (indeed not necessarily always) because motivated by something other than the truest application of Wikipedia standards.
More on point regarding your keep rationale, NCORP does not require fame, importance, or popularity as those are all too subjective. Notability is Wikipedia's quasi-objective alternative that effectively defers that judgment. Notability in that way requires "significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject." So Heaven Sent Gaming must be the subject (or a subject) of multiple high quality sources that have no relationship to Heaven Sent Gaming. If those sources are shown to exist, I -- and I imagine others -- would be happy to change my opinion on the matter as I have absolutely no prior knowledge of this subject, nor do I have strong feelings about it. But as of now, those sources do not seem to exist. See WP:RS for an explanation of reliable sourcing and WP:N for a general overview of notability. --— Rhododendrites talk |  01:18, 28 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Rhododendrites:I was speaking on Kolbasz statement on the WP:NCORP, which this article meets the rationale for. It also covers, the WP:N rationale, through Wikipedia:NCORP Heaven Sent Gaming has "attracted the notice of reliable sources unrelated to the organization or product" from multiple sources. It's in the article, and more than a few of the references meet WP:RS with "peer-reviewed sources", most (if not all) primary sources are backed by secondary or tertiary sources, and the vast majority of primary sources are clearly "written or published by the subject of the biographical material", meaning they are acceptable. Mahalo braddah. Final thing, "Very Strong" is a native Hawaiian reference, which is why my "Keep" is the way it is. BeachParadise (talk) 02:00, 28 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@NinjaRobotPirate: thanks for those amazing "Helpful links" on your page. Heaven Sent Gaming is now cleaned of most, if not all, non-reliable citations and non-verifiable resources; according to Film/Resources, Video games/Sources, Comics/References, Albums/Sources, Novels/Resources. It is now a much more reliably sourced article. Though, the "biographical material" still has primary sources due to that being acceptable, though they usually have accompanying secondary and tertiary source. :D DunDunDunt (talk) 07:41, 28 June 2014 (UTC) There is also another primary source, but it is accompanied with a tertiary source per Comics/References.[reply]

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