User talk:NisansaDdS

Welcome

File:Verifiability and Neutral point of view (Common Craft)-en.ogv

A video showing the basics of verifiability and neutral point of view policies.

Welcome!

Hello, NisansaDdS, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like Wikipedia and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Again, welcome! - Ahunt (talk) 18:32, 26 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Use of non-free logos in userboxes

Hi there. I have now twice removed non-free, copyrighted logos that you have put in Toastmaster's userboxes. Wikipedia's lawyers have determined that the use of non-free logos does not fall under the "fair use" provisions of US copyright law, making their use in user boxes illegal. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, so future insertions of copyrighted logos will be treated as vandalism. You need to use either a free image or text in your user boxes to avoid running afoul of US law. Wikipedia:USERBOX#Caution_about_image_use has more information on this issue. - Ahunt (talk) 18:32, 26 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Ahunt, the image that was used was not uploaded by me. What I did is embed the same image used in the Toastmasters International article. As you can see, the image is properly described as property of TMI here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toastmasters_International#mediaviewer/File:Toastmasters_2011.png . Further, the TMI brand manual dictates to use the materiel provided in the brand portal to "communicate and implement the Toastmasters International brand". It also says "By communicating one consistent Toastmasters identity, the brand will be recognizable and it will accurately symbolize the benefits of this great organization we are all proud to be a part of". The "how to" is described here; http://www.toastmasters.org/brandmanual , page 29-32. As a member of the said organization I am sworn to honour the said rules. Please advise on how to proceed.

- NisansaDdS (talk) 16:45, 31 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The logo is used in the article in compliance with US Copyright law "fair use" provisions, so its appearance in the article is legal. Regardless of what the organization says , their logo is still copyrighted and not released under a free licence which make sit an offense under US law to use it in something like a user box where the "fair use" provisions do not apply. The brand manual you linked to, on page 72, says "Unauthorized use of the marks or copyrighted materials is prohibited and may result in removal from good standing of an individual member, revocation of a club charter, removal of an officer at any level, or other disciplinary or legal action.". As I noted in my original edit summaries the only options are using a freely-licensed image or text. If the organization wants to licence the logo under a free licence that would solve it! - Ahunt (talk) 00:30, 1 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I accept what you mean by the "fair use" provisions and the TMI article. But as to the provisions in the band manual, may I direct your attention to point A in the page 72 of brand manual which refers to Article III, Section 6 and Article XIII, Sections 1 through 4 of the Bylaws of Toastmasters International for "The use of Toastmasters International’s trademarks". Which then refers to the "Protocol 4.0 - Intellectual Property" on Page 159 of the same document. The table on that page states that an individual member can use material on "Stationery, business cards, electronic media, and web pages, solely to indicate the person’s affiliation with a member Club of Toastmasters International." What an individual cannot do is "Any personal newsletter, electronic media, bulletin, or similar item; articles such as trophies, ribbons, banners, certificates, clothing, or other items bearing the marks or copyrighted materials or any colorable imitation thereof, except by specific, prior written authorization from the Executive Director" The userboxes, in my opinion, falls under "electronic media used to solely to indicate the person’s affiliation with a member Club of Toastmasters International." and thereby permissible. The option of asking TMI to make the logo public is unattainable as per my knowledge. But I think that is not an issue here because in my opinion the userboxes are in compliance to the policies given above. However, I shall write to the TMI and the Deputy District Governor (marketing) with a link to this discussion. It is them who suggest us to "proudly announce our affiliation with TMI" and they would like to know about roadblocks such as this. Meanwhile, I'll wait for your judgement. - NisansaDdS (talk) 01:44, 1 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It's not really my judgement, I'm just trying to explain what I know about how US Copyright law is used on Wikipedia. In this case the TMI statement allowing use, but retaining copyright, basically conflicts with Wikipedia's policy of carefully following US Copyright law to require only free images in user boxes. In this case I am thinking that Wikipedia's policy prevails, because it is to protect the project from legal problems. I guess another option would be to go the WP:OTRS route if someone from TMI head office wants to do that. - Ahunt (talk) 11:46, 1 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Problem is, TMI is entirely a non profit volunteer organization. From the President to CEO to the board of directors to the smallest club officer, all of us a volunteers. I am not sure I can get them to take the WP:OTRS route. I neither have the rank nor influence. Probably I should just give up. All I wanted to do was make userboxes that TMs can use. :-( - NisansaDdS (talk) 16:41, 1 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You can do that, just don't use the logo! - Ahunt (talk) 17:05, 1 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Well then, I'll keep the userbox as it is (with the "image deleted" pic). Someday someone else will be able to fix it. - 17:15, 1 September 2014 (UTC)