Talk:White-shoe firm

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Weil, Gotshal Manges

I removed Weil, Gotshal Manges from the examples list. With regards to law firms the white shoe brigade were overtly WASP institutions that until at least the Second World War had anti-semitic hiring policies. "Jewish firms" like Weil, Gotshal and Skadden Arps were set up in opposition to the White Shoe firms, so while their current success rivals or exceeds many of the old WASP firms they are non the less not white shoe firms. 129.67.157.172 (talk) 01:41, 16 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Just because two news reports refer to Weil as a white shoe firm, this does not make it one. White shoe is a historic and social construct which is probably best defined by a those within the legal profession. No one would tell you that Weil is white shoe. I believe it was founded as late as 1931 and perhaps not even on Wall Street. Which bank was it connected to anyway? None strikes in my mind, its big in BANKRUPTCY which was traditionally what white shoe firms shunned. It should be removed, any thoughts? Take a vote? --Mediterraneo (talk) 18:32, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

   FYI, Skadden wasn't a "Jewish firm". While it was formed as an alternative to the white shoe firms, it was formed by three white shoe renegades, not by jews. In addition to Weil, the other historically great jewish firm was Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison. 141.211.81.236 (talk) 04:12, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I suppose the reputation of Skadden as a "Jewish firm" stems from the fame of Joseph Flom, the longest-lived of the named partners and probably the most renowned. And its precisely because the firm was an anti-white-shoe-establishment-type that it was open to hiring non-WASPs elites, and therefore earned its "Jewish" association. 220.255.2.25 (talk) 06:06, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"New" White shoe firms

I added the section called "New" white shoe firms in hopes of resolving the ongoing discussion here. I think the most productive thing is to get some of these comments on the actually page so that readers can understand the distinction between the historical origins and use of the term versus the current, more laissez-faire, use the term. The fact is that the NY Times and other respected publications use the term to apply to Skadden, Weil and others, so it would be silly for the page not to address that. I think it can be done while fully explaining the history of the original select group and also paying respect to the obstacles that the founders of the newer firms often faced on their paths to success. Epeesi (talk) 01:06, 26 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This seems sensible. Though we should say that isn't white-shoe associated with those firms that have strong relationships with an old-line bank? or am I imagining this association?, e.g. Shearman with Citibank, Milbank with Chase.

Next question, isn't White & Case white shoe? It should be added.

--Mediterraneo (talk) 02:28, 26 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think the section qualifies as original research. --70.23.131.232 (talk) 02:33, 26 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How on earth is Alston and Bird a "New" White shoe firm? They are based in Atlanta, consistently ranked in the 80s for the top 100 law firms, and don't do work for any of the top Wall Street clients. At least the other "New" White shoe firms can argue that they are as elite as the old white shoe firms. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.39.212.65 (talk) 18:04, 27 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Is Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP an old or a new white show firm, because it is in both list. --89.204.139.74 (talk) 07:44, 26 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Management Consulting

I'm not sure whether Bain is a white shoe company. BCG and Booz are listed although they both are no white shoe firms. I'm pretty sure I have often read about McK as a white shoe firm.

None of the consulting firms are technically classified as WSFs in literature and historical - not even MBB. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.140.5.249 (talk) 04:12, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Management consulting firms, even the MBBs, were never labelled as "white shoe". This is because as a profession or industry sector, management consulting only arose at the earliest in the 1920s (AT Kearney, McKinsey) and only started taking off post-WWII. The term white-shoe had always only applied to the traditional banks and law firms that provided professional services to the NY-centric financial sector. In fact if you notice, most of the prestigious (by today's reckoning) consulting firms were/are founded and headquartered outside of NYC. AlphaBet678 (talk) 06:15, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

What about Brown Brothers Harriman & Co.?

Brown Brothers for many decades has been a pillar of the WASPish investment houses on Wall Street. In fact, once it was only second to JP Morgan & Co. in terms of its prestige. So I will add it to the list unless it is argued otherwise. -- And Rew 14:49, 1 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Listing

One editor wants to delete all the hard work on the basis that wikipedia is not a business directory. This listing is not a business directory--few users will come here in order to do business. It is a cultural/historical listing, in which business needs of somebody in 2012 are not considered but the cultural history of Wall Street in 1950 is considered. That's history. Rjensen (talk) 02:27, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

DLA Piper

Does anyone really think DLA Piper, a verein firm with low productivity per lawyer is a white shoe firm? I am going to take it out. Feedback welcome of course. JustinReilly (talk) 20:11, 27 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

LOL DLA Piper white shoe? It had its origins in three smallish, regional UK law firms and only grew through mergers in the past decade or so with similarly-smallish American counterparts. AlphaBet678 (talk) 07:03, 7 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]