Talk:1992 United States men's Olympic basketball team

Roster format appropriate?

Just looking at this article makes me wonder if the roster format (which I think is the same used on NBA pages) is the one that should be used for Olympic teams. It just seems weird seeing "Nationality" as a column when it's a roster for a National team - by definition all of the players are American! Do we need to establish a unique US Olympic team roster format? The needs are different from NBA or College pages. If so, it should carry through to all Team USA pages. Rikster2 (talk) 14:13, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Personally, I'd like to remove all flags from the NBA rosters, for various reasons. But if that's not going to happen, then an Olympic roster format might be a good idea. Zagalejo^^^ 17:49, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Agree that Olympic roster format is a good idea.—Chris!_c/t 18:27, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Selection

Something on the controversy of leaving Isiah Thomas off of the team strikes me as appropriate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.44.139.216 (talk) 18:35, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Someone is messing with the page

Someone is actively editing this page and adding inaccurate information (adding Dirk Nowitzki and removing Christian Laettner etc). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.45.18.37 (talk) 13:14, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Reqested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Withdrawn request as nominator. —Bagumba (talk) 23:35, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

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1992 United States men's Olympic basketball team → Dream Team (basketball) – Dream Team is the WP:COMMONNAME for this topic and should be used over the invented descriptive name. Although the name might be considered non-neutral, WP:POVTITLE allows such titles; in any event, few if any sources contest the legitimacy of this team's "dream" legacy. The name is commonly used in news sources and is even the title of a book.—Bagumba (talk) 17:43, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

They called the team at the next Olympics the Dream Team as well. I think this rename might be taking a specific title and changing it into an ambiguous one. That is also not taking into account that non-braketed disambiguators are preferred over bracketed ones. So the current name would also be preferable over one that has to use (basketball). -DJSasso (talk) 17:48, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

There are Dream Team II and Dream Team III incarnations. However, they should be disambiguated at the Dream Team disambiguation page level. As it is, 1992 United States men's Olympic basketball team already uses the term "Dream Team" 12 times, so either the article tile should change or it should not use something that is merely considered an informal nickname.—Bagumba (talk) 17:52, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Well there is also the issue of consistency of article naming, this article falls into the situation where all articles for olympic teams are titled this way. Changing its title would knock it out of consistency. Now I know consistency isn't always needed. But combined with the other reasons I don't really see a need to change this. -DJSasso (talk) 17:55, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

When I read an article, esp. if I wasnt familiar with the subject, I look to the article name to understand what most people call the subject. If I didn't know anything about this Dream Team, I would think its just a cute nickname that most news sources only mention in passing or colloquially. That is certainly not the case here, and having it not be the title would be misinforming readers. The consistent Wikipedia-produced name of "1992 United States men's Olympic basketball team" would still be a redirect, so the only issue is that it is not the title. Reader knowledge should trump administrative consistencies.—Bagumba (talk) 18:12, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

I guess its just a difference of opinion. As a reader I would find the current title more informative. Remember we write articles for people who know nothing of the subject. If you didn't know anything about the subject which would help you more. "Dream Team" or "1992 United States men's Olympic basketball team"? I think its quite clear that the second would help the reader more as Dream Team doesn't really suggest that the article is the 92 US basketball team...or even a basketball team at all. (although the disambig would help with the latter) -DJSasso (talk) 18:28, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

The first sentence of the lead tells the reader about the subject. The article name tells the name the subject is commonly referred to. In the absence of a viable common name, we fall back to an invented descriptive name such as "1992 United States men's Olympic basketball team". Redirects exist, so there is no issue that a reader will find their article regardless of the article's name. We could use more descriptive titles like 1980 Winter Olympics United States–Russia ice hockey match or Post-Thanksgiving Friday, but it is preferable to use their common name like Miracle on Ice or Black Friday (shopping) when they exist.—Bagumba (talk) 18:50, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Using the common name for most articles I would agree, but not when the common name is an ambiguous title. If this team were clearly the primary topic for Dream Team then I could see your point, but currently it isn't. And a name that is not ambiguous is always preferable over an ambiguous name. (and I would note the current name isn't an invented name. its the official name of the team.) -DJSasso (talk) 19:34, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

The official name of the team by USA Basketball is "USA Basketball Men's Senior National Team", and this incarnation played in the 1992 Olympics. "1992 United States men's Olympic basketball team" is a concise description, but I don't know of any organization that declares it as "official". I understand your points, even if I dont agree with your conclusion. It boils down to significance of common name "Dream Team" being in the title with a "{basketball)" disambiguator versus having a concise descriptive name.—Bagumba (talk) 20:11, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

I oppose the proposed move for the following reasons:

• Other Dream Teams exist inside and outside the others that have represented the US in Olympic basketball, thus the existence of the disambiguation page.
• WP:COMMONNAME is generally used for shortened, but still terminologically correct names of subject articles. It is generally not used for nicknames. Bill Clinton is an accepted shortening of the president's name. Caffeine is the accepted scientific name for that chemical compound.
• Prevalent use. Yes, "Dream Team" is a common nickname for the 1992 team. Is it omnipresent like Cher or Lady Gaga? No. No one ever calls those women "Cheryl Sarkisian" or "Stefani Germanotta", but some variant on "1992 USA men's basketball team" ("1992 basketball team", "1992 Olympic team", etc.) is used just as often as the Dream Team.

The current redirect is sufficient. Ylee (talk) 19:45, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Re: "shortened, but still terminologically correct names": You italicized it, but it does not seem to be a direct quote from WP:COMMONNAME. Is your intent to put extra emphasis on your own interpretation? "terminologically correct names" taken literally implies that peanut should be renamed Arachis hypogaea when the lead says "the peanut is not a nut, but rather a legume." I dont believe that is the spirit of WP:COMMONNAME.—Bagumba (talk) 20:28, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

The name should be kept as is, because arguments can be made for teams in other sports to be referred to as the "Dream Team." NBA Fan44 (talk) 20:51, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

The request is to move to Dream Team (basketball) not Dream Team, which is already a disambiguation page.—Bagumba (talk) 21:19, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

I agree with the use of a redirect and disagree with a page move. National teams follow a standardized pattern for naming. This acknowledges the likelihood of the search term while not interfering with standard naming conventions. Dream Team (basketball) is not really any more likely to be the search query than what is there now with the parenthesis included. matt91486 (talk) 21:44, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Basketball is not my sport but there is many "Golden generation" and I guess nobody really own the name "Dream Team", also nobody is really "The Queen", but rugby union teams really have a official nickname that the International Rugby Federation use --Feroang (talk) 01:27, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Michael Jordan

born febuary 1963 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.36.224.59 (talk) 14:44, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Some edits I made

I recently read Dream Team by Ian Thomsen, a highly respected NBA writer who had direct interviews with many of the Dream Teamers. Many of facts from that book conflict with what is written here.

1. I took out "Joe Dumars would have substituted for any injured players." because here's what Ian Thomsen says happened.

But had Daly come to a different conclusion, the call he was going to make was not to Isiah. “I know for a fact that Chuck wanted Dumars,” Jordan told me recently. (Remember that he and Daly played golf together almost every day.) “But Chuck just felt he couldn’t because of how badly Isiah wanted to be on the Dream Team. He just couldn’t do it. So he let John stay even with a broken leg.

Mccallum, Jack (2012-07-10). Dream Team: How Michael, Magic, Larry, Charles, and the Greatest Team of All Time Conquered the World and Changed the Game of Basketball Forever (Kindle Locations 2769-2772). Random House Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

While Joe Dumars was considering Dumars, MJ speculates he wouldn't have done it because of the insult to Isiah (on top of the original snub). Also Joe Dumars was only being considered as a replacement for the injured John Stockton (both being guards), not "any injured players".

The source cited for the original statement is Jan Hubbard a NBA columnist for Newsday. I believe Ian Thomsen is a stronger authority on this.

2. I took out "In a 2012 NBA TV documentary, Jordan said, "That was one of the stipulations put to me that Isiah wasn't part of the team."" because it's too confusing. It makes it sound like the committee was stipulating to Michael Jordan that Isiah wasn't going to be on the team which doesn't make sense since MJ didn't want Isiah on the team.

Also it's pretty much confirmed that Michael Jordan really was the reason Isiah was left off the team. I'll get multiple sources but for now I just have this.

Isiah Thomas was not a member of the Dream Team primarily because of two men, Michael Jordan and Chuck Daly. If we want to put a finer point on it, it was really one man— Jordan.

Mccallum, Jack (2012-07-10). Dream Team: How Michael, Magic, Larry, Charles, and the Greatest Team of All Time Conquered the World and Changed the Game of Basketball Forever (Kindle Locations 1340-1341). Random House Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

Rod Thorn, who as general manager of the Bulls in 1984 had drafted Jordan, was assigned the most important task: pulling the prize catch into the boat. Thorn called Jordan directly sometime during the summer, after the Bulls had won their first championship. (In fact, all of the invitations were extended directly to the athletes, not through agents; Granik, who as a league exec had fought numerous nasty battles with agents by that time, had insisted on that.) So let’s be clear right now about what Jordan said in that first phone call. “Rod, I don’t want to play if Isiah Thomas is on the team,” Jordan said. I wrote that in Sports Illustrated at the time, not because Jordan confirmed it, which he didn’t, but because at least two reliable sources did. At the time, Jordan more or less denied that he would stand in Isiah’s way. But he did confirm it to me in the summer of 2011. “I told Rod I don’t want to play if Isiah Thomas is on the team.” That’s what he said.

Mccallum, Jack (2012-07-10). Dream Team: How Michael, Magic, Larry, Charles, and the Greatest Team of All Time Conquered the World and Changed the Game of Basketball Forever (Kindle Locations 1350-1357). Random House Publishing Group. Kindle Edition. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Meme3234 (talk • contribs) 04:53, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

You mean Jack McCallum, right? Not Ian Thomsen. Zagalejo^^^ 05:29, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Jordan and Thomas

There was some confusion that it was mere speculation that Jordan might have had a hand in Thomas not being on the team. Over the years, this has come out to be a fact. There is a pretty succinct quote in the article from Jordan not to have Thomas on the team. It can probably be stated clearer, as I read McCallum's Dream Team book before, and I think even Bill Simmons is quote clear in his book, that Jordan was not going to have Thomas on the team. Later even Magic revealed he did not want Thomas on the team.—Bagumba (talk) 01:51, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Education Program: Cornell University/Online Communities

Course Page

As part of a class assignment Cjm274, ket47, gk252, and mjm627 will be making editing to this page. Our goal is to improve this article's rate to at least a B-Class.

Improvement/Expansion Plan

• Expand sections and go into more detail about certain facts
  • Example: I don't think it is clear why Christian Laettner was selected to the team over other NBA players. It would be helpful to expand on their decision to keep one roster spot open for a college player.
• General fact checking for sections that talk about the formation of the team and its legacy.
• Improvement of the statistical charts
  • the formatting of the chart is not consistent with that of the NBA's or Basketball Reference.
  • additional charts need to be added that show the players' stats in per 36min intervals and per 100 possession intervals. This is necessary to get a sense of how well the team was actually playing, because they played less minutes then they usually do in an NBA game.
• Add an additional section on controversy
  • This is probably a good place to put the Jordan/Isaiah Thomas details and Laettner over Shaq/Webber decision.
• Comparison with other USA men's Olympic basketball teams
  • Since the Dream Team is so freqently compared with the USA men's basketball team of later years, it is worth comparing the average margin of victory, scoring, opponent scoring, medals, and opponents field goal percentage.
• Where are They Now? section
  • Patrick Ewing is looking to get into head coaching. After he was done playing he helped all-star center Dwight Howard become an offensive force. Christian Laettner wants to get back into coaching, after getting hit hard by the economic recession in 2008. Magic Johnson is an analyst for ESPN and is also the owner of the Los Angeles Dodgers. He is a successful businessman. Charles Barkley is a huge star on TV now. He works for TNT along side of many other former basketball players and it known for his comedic actions. Michael Jordan is doing just fine for himself. He is part owner and GM of the Charlotte Bobcats. He is known as the greatest to ever play the game. Chris Mullin is with ESPN's NBA team. John Stockton is watching his kids grow up into great athletes. He has six children. David Robinson formed Admiral Capital Group in 2007 and it is a private equity group with a goal of positive social impact. Larry Bird moved to the front office, he won executive of the year award in 2012, his last year as president of basketball operations. Karl Malone went back to Utah and opened a Toyota dealership. Scottie Pippen returned to the Bulls as a team ambassador in 2010. Clyde Drexler was on Dancing With the Stars in their fourth season. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ket47 (talk • contribs) 22:45, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

References

• NBA Dream Team: By the Numbers
• Jack McCallum's Dream Team
• NBA TV's "The Dream Team"

Images and Multimedia

• We will make sure that all images and multimedia used are protected under the fair use policy
• Medal Ceremony

Feel free to add anything we missed in our plan --Cjm274 (talk) 21:59, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

I’m glad this page is being edited, it really is missing a lot of information. It should should mention why great players, other than Ishiah Thomas, where left off the team (i.e Dominique Wilkins, Akeem Olajuwon, and Kevin Johnson). I also like your idea to about making a separate section about controversy, but make sure you mention Barley elbowing that Angolan player. By the way Magic is no longer an analyst for ESPN. I am not sure Patrick Ewing turned Dwight Howard into a "offensive force”, back it up with a source if you use that. 73.184.170.54 (talk) 19:02, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Hey folks. Very good plan. One suggestion is to go to other Wikipedia articles about olympic teams and see how they are structured, what sections they include. For example, look at the B-class article on the US Ice Hockey 1980 Olympic team or the GA-class article on the 2007 Texas Longhorns football team. Criteria for article quality can be found here. LeshedInstructor (talk) 19:19, 11 September 2014 (UTC)