Talk:Satyananda Saraswati

Copyright concerns

In January 2010, this article was tagged, here, for its resemblance to [1]. While there is undoubtedly resemblance, the external source was published on December 6, 2009. The duplicated material in the article predates that. Additionally, there is evidence of natural evolution of the material in the article. For instance, when the article was created in 2005, it included the following text:

Swami Satyananda Saraswati, an important yoga teacher in both his native India and the West, was born in the small Himalayan of Almora in 1923. At the age of nineteen he met his spiritual master, Swami Sivananda, in Rishikesh and lived in his circle for following twelve years. For the next eight years he wandered through India, Afghanistan, Nepal, Burma and Ceylon, extending his knowledge of spiritual practices.

The seeds are here for the 2009 publication:

Swami Satyananda Saraswati was born in Almora, in the Himalayan foothills. His parents were large landowners. As a young child he experienced spontaneous spiritual experiences. In 1943 at nineteen, Swami Satyananda came to live and take sannyasa from Swami Sivananda at Sivananda Ashram in Rishikesh. There he served in different departments at the Ashram for over 12 years. He edited the ashram’s Hindi journal, wrote various articles and composed poems in both Hindi and Sanskrit. He wrote a translation and commentary in the English language of the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad by Swami Sivananda. Upon leaving the ashram, he wandered through India, Afghanistan, Nepal, Burma and Ceylon for the next 8 years, extending his knowledge of spiritual practices.

However, parts of this are missing. The statement about his parents being landowners and his spontaneous spiritual experiences came in May 2009. Other significant text entered in March 2007. It seems in this case we are looking at a reverse infringement. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 14:43, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://www.yogamag.net/yogas/synop.shtml. Infringing material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Logan _Talk ^{Contributions} 23:13, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Disputed text

The past few days, a lot of back-and-forth undoing has been going on. The contested info is about the birthdate, details of his life and attribution of those details, and charges of sexual misconduct. For the birthdate, WP:RS should be available. For the details, sources should be provided, or otherwise {{source?}}-tags can be used. Attributing is acceptable, I think, but here too source-tags could be used. For the charges of sexual misconduct, WP:RS is indispendable. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 06:41, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Copied from User talk:Joshua Jonathan#Swami Satyananda

There are numerous issues I have with this page. Firstly, there are a couple of discrepancies on the page - it has 2 different dates for Satyananda starting the International Yoga Fellowship (1956 and 1963) - this organisation does nothing that I am aware of, so why is it there anyway - Secondly is the Bihar School of Yoga - was it 1963 or 1964 when it started? Thirdly, most of the statements on the page are sourced from Satyananda's own books about himself and there is no-one alive to prove or disprove them. Members of his Ashram support his statements and continually re-publish them. Reports of several members of Sivananda's Divine Life Society who knew Satyananda there (not published) say other things.

The material on sexual assault can be divided into 2. That of Swami Akhandananda in Australia went through the courts so there will be records. Allegations against Sw Satyananda and others remains statements by individuals that has not been before courts or been published.

What should be left in and what removed? Sanatan Saraswati 203.171.95.168 (talk) 05:11, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Regarding the dates, these are minor. If there are no reliable sources, well, so be it. I could try to take a critical look at the IYF, but that's also minor. The use of Satyananda's books as a souce is a major issue, though less relevant when it's not about controversial issues. The allegations of sexual misconduct are serious issues, and they really need to be sourced. It would it be wise to first discuss the sources you can find on this isse here at the talk page. Best regards, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 07:18, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Sources

Are Satyananda's books acceptable as main sources for this article? Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 08:45, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

As far as his teachings on yoga and tantra, they are well regarded and useful. As far as what is said about himself, there seems to be a strong tendency to be incredibly flexible with the truth. Probably advisable to not use. 203.171.95.168 (talk) 23:58, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Birth date

26 August 1923 or 26 July or 25 December 1923? Proposal by 203:

"The date of his birth is contentious. While in Rishikesh at Sivananda Ashram it was given as 26th August While in his own ashram it was given as, and always celebrated on, 26th July . It was only in the last few years of his life that he claimed it to be on Christmas day."

Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 07:47, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Two must be wrong. Swami Satyananda stood to gain by the latter two. After setting up his own Ashram, Satyananda celebrated it as 26th July for 40 years. This meant that it was always close to Guru Poornima and would occasionally coincide. This was as it was published in Yoga Magazine and in promotional material. As he approached death he changed it to the 25th December. I leave this up to you to decide why.

Sanatan Saraswati 203.171.95.168 (talk) 22:01, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Inititation

Proposal:

"Sivananda gave him the name Satyananda Saraswati and (according to Satyananda) initiated him as a Paramahamsa sannyasin of the Dashnama sannyasa order, on the banks of the river Ganges on 12 September 1947. Reports from sannyasins within Sivananda Ashram disputed whether this is true. Sivananda described him as a 'versatile genius' who 'did the work of four people' (although who those four people were is unknown).

JJ: add source-tags; search for sources for the disputed info. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 08:45, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

There is no disputing Satyananda was initiated into sannyasa by Sivananda. The date is mostly irrelevant except that, it would be very, very unlikely for him to be initiated immediately as Paramahansa and after only 4 years in the ashram. If it were true then Sivananda would undoubtedly have made him his successor. Sanatan Saraswati 203.171.95.168 (talk) 22:13, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

1956-1963

Proposal by 203:

"In 1956, after dreaming he had received the instruction from his Guru to spread yoga from door to door and shore to shore, Satyananda left Sivananda Ashram. The Divine Life Society (set up by Sivananda) said he left to set up his own ashram. He wandered throughout India as a mendicant parivrajaka. According to Satyananda he travelled through Afghanistan, Nepal, Burma and Ceylon for the next 7 years, extending his knowledge of spiritual practices.

JJ: find sources for "dreaming"; add source-tags for disputed info. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 08:45, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

International Yoga Fellowship

1956 or 1963? Is the mention of this organisation relevant to this article? Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 07:47, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

1956, accroding to Melton and Baumann. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 08:57, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Bihar school of yoga

Bihar School of Yoga - was it 1963 or 1964 when it started? Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 08:45, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Akhandananda

Proposal:

"and saying that he was finished with disciples. Coincidentally, this was at the time his chief and extremely devoted disciple in Australia, Sw Akhandananda, was charged with sexually molesting a number of the young teenage female disciples. He was sentenced to 18 months but his higher court appeal was upheld and he was released after 9 months."

JJ: "coincidentally", that's suggestive, and WP:OR. And unsourced. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 08:45, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

The conviction of Akhananda was overturned in 1991, and this is the legal standing of the issue. Satyananda was never convicted. Viruswitch (talk) 19:28, 4 December 2014 (UTC) Once the court has overturned the Sw Akhandananda case, no point to include the episode here and create confusion. Sw Satyananda and Sw Niranjananada were never called by court and hence can not be induldged into the controversy. Hpjaiswal (talk)23 December 2014 — Preceding undated comment added 14:38, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Satyananda

Proposal:

"Claims of sexual assault were also made against Sw Satyananda and other sannyasins in the Ashram."

JJ: sources!?! Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 08:45, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Forefront

Proposal:

"Satyananda brought the yogic side of tantra to the forefront, to the public. However, this was not always at the forefront within the Ashram."

JJ: sources? Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 08:45, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Update: Dear Admins: As it can be seen no one has come forward to prove that the results from an official enquiry cannot be included. Totocol (talk) 22:06, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Proposal for inclusion:

The Royal Commission in Australia

In the Opening Statement of Counsel Assisting the Royal Commission they stated: "The main focus of the hearing is on the response of the Satyananda Yoga Ashram at Mangrove Mountain (the Ashram) to complaints of sexual abuse made against its former spiritual leader, Swami Akhandananda Saraswati (Akhandananda), in the mid to late 1980s. I anticipate that the hearing will also canvas allegations of sexual abuse perpetrated by the organisation’s founder and spiritual head, Guru Swami Satyananda Saraswati (Satyananda) and issues relating to how he and his spiritual successor, Swami Niranjananda Saraswati (Niranjan) dealt with the allegations when they first came to light. " 203.171.95.168 (talk) 00:59, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

- source

-User talk:Sanatan 6:47, 23 December 2014 (local) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.171.95.168 (talk)

CONTROVERSY

It is wrong to include a section on something that has not been concluded nor proven into an official biography. The sexual allegations have not been proven and the links provided by the people who do them are tabloids or self-published material. This article is the target of slander and the section on controversy does not abide by the wikipedia principles.

The conviction of Akhananda was overturned in 1991, and this is the legal standing of the issue. Swami Satyananda was never convicted and in this case, the paragraph of controversy is considered slander.

I REQUEST from ADMINS to PROTECT this article from becoming the target of malicious attempts at defaming Satyananda Yoga and Yoga in general. As I don't know how to do this, I hope some moderator can. Viruswitch (talk) 19:31, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

There is nothing the slightest bit wrong with publishing information about an ongoing inquiry. There is absolutely no "principle" that requires waiting until the inquiry is completed before writing about it: that's just false. As long as the reports about the inquiry are from published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy, this material presents no problem. The sources in this case are the Sydney Morning Herald and the Australian Associated Press, which easily qualify as reliable sources. There is nothing that resembles "tabloids or self-published material", and a Wikipedia article is not an "official biography". -- Rrburke (talk) 20:25, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

This is not just information on an ongoing inquiry. This is slander. To make false and damaging accusations about someone is a crime and I hope you and wikipedia (that allows this to go unnoticed) are prepared to deal with it. Viruswitch (talk)

→It is recommended that you stick to the facts from the ongoing inquiry and that is what has been added to the page. The accusations that are part of a public inquiry. All from reputable sources including official records from the hearings. Entry will be updated as the inquiry continues its course Totocol (talk) 10:58, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

It is important to include the official case that is being discussed by the Royal Commission into the Institutional Response to Child Abuse. It is an official source and the articles that have been included as reference are all referring to that official source. As listed in this page, the sources included are acceptable while used with caution. Caution has been taken when adding those references. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.99.103.235 (talk) 10:46, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Request for comment

There are many ways to include something official. And the way it is included here is not only non objective but slanderous. The text is being manipulated into passing an opinion to the public instead of merely listing the facts. It is obvious that the intent behind this text is to harm the reputation of Swami Satyananda. Also, if you read carefully the linked articles, they are: 1. Merely reproducing the allegations 2. The allegations are not limited to the alleged sexual abuse, but they are attacking the philosophy of yoga in general. Karma Yoga and Bhakti Yoga are practiced in many ashrams, in many traditions. And Yoga is well respected in Indian and other countries. It is clear that there is a broader intent and a specific agenda behind these attacks.

If we wish to stick to the facts, the facts are these: 1. 2 persons have filed allegations on sexual abuse 40 years after they allegedly happened → These are case studies which means that a couple of persons have been selected from a larger group of people that have come forward to testify similar accounts. These issues have already been also confirmed by the past and current admin as can be seen on their Facebook page. This page contains links to sources describing what is included and one of the witnesses was the wife of one of the persons mentioned in this article. 2. The conviction of Swami Akhandananda was overturned in 1991. -> His wife is one of the new witnesses that are now testifying together with a number of witnesses including several victims and residents that witnesses some of what the survivors are alleging. 3. The allegations have not been proven and Swami Satyananda Saraswati has never been convicted. --> A deceased person cannot be convicted which does not mean that they could has committed a crime during their lifetime

Does any of the person that have been deleting the additions have any real fact to refuse adding the ongoing official findings of the inquest that includes allegations of sexual abuse towards children including Satayananda? Administrators can check that these are real proceedings from an official royal commission on the page mentioned. If you can demonstrate that these types of facts (recorded allegations as part of a case study run by a royal commission) cannot be included in Wikimedia please include information about it in this talk page as described by the administrator. Otherwise we will just go back to where things are now. Let's discuss this as reasonable individuals. The page did not include anything saying that he did or not do anything but mere facts about allegations being made including official records. Thus included high range officials within the congregation.

This is the suggested text:

Full transcripts and videos of the persons that decided to come forward to unveil the situations can be found at the website of the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Abuse. It includes detailed descriptions of some of the acts of abuse committed towards children by members of the group including Satyananda.

Please come forward to explain why you think that this[2] cannot be included. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Totocol (talk • contribs) 11:50, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Please everyone, stick to the facts, if references are provided including royal commission public records then they are facts. There is not point in trying to hide things that are available in the public domain. Only facts based on the allegations are being included

---

As long as Wikipedia wishes to retain its objectivity, it will stick to the facts and will not promote a smear campaign. 2A02:580:51B9:A200:DCC8:1188:B496:4611 (talk) - - - — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:580:51B9:A200:DCC8:1188:B496:4611 (talk) 11:07, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Definitely something has got to be done about this article. There is a revert war going on. Someone must help. Enigmafay (talk)

It is important to wait until the hearings and the process has concluded. Otherwise this is a cheap attempt at influencing the outcome. Thank you. Enigmafay (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 11:26, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Three witnesses in during the hearings have mentioned Satyananda as taking part on some of the acts. I believe that should be added on the page. Totocol (talk) 20:22, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

A request has been added to the third party opinion project Totocol (talk) 07:32, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Please, stop deleting content that has trustworthy references. Let's have an open conversation. Why is the link to the Royal Commission not valid to you? Have you read the actual transcriptions to the testimonials from the victims of the sexual abuse by the different leaders including Satyananda? Please let's stick to what the testimonials are saying. If you haven't, the transcripts from the Royal Commission are here: Totocol (talk) 09:39, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Editors, why can we have a conversation here instead of trying to delete the content that is coming from the Royal Commission testimonials? Totocol (talk) 09:53, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Why we have to propagate some new allegations that have to do nothing with his career and biography? Don't forget that we had similar reports about many other people much after their death. Are you sure that we are going to believe on a former member of his center? Bladesmulti (talk) 09:58, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Because the new findings are very relevant to what he was trying to teach. I invite you to read this article which has a good summary of the findings and has a good discussion on why it might be important to include those allegations as part of his biography. In case you haven't read the transcripts or how the Royal Commission works, so far there are 3 witnesses but they have just been selected from what could be a bigger number. The outcome of these hearings can be used as input for criminal proceedings. In case you want to read the transcripts they can be found at the Royal Commission's website. I think the evidence is pretty clear and strong but the law should decide on that. The hearings will continue in March.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.7.201.34 (talk • contribs) 20:37, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

You maybe correct about mentioning it somewhere, but having a separate section for that is undue. We can actually write about this where we have written about his career and death. Along with this controversy, we can also add some other events(apart from these allegations). It will work too. Bladesmulti (talk) 02:32, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Why did you fully delete it as opposed to changing it to a sub-section as you suggest? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Totocol (talk • contribs)

Read Wikipedia:NOTGOSSIP, just because some minors have now alleged him of sexual abuse and nothing has been proven, it requires no mention. Investigations seems to have been calmed down and you are a lone editor edit warring over these changes. Bladesmulti (talk) 16:05, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

Please refer to full talk section. Definitely not the only editor that has been trying to add sections related to the outcomes from the royal commission. I highly encourage you to refer to the texts from the royal commission. The investigations have not calmed down, they have simply moved to the next step where the organisation can respond to the initial findings and then the hearings will start again in March. Please do not accuse other editors without reviewing the information added properly — Preceding unsigned comment added by Totocol (talk • contribs) 02:04, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

Looks like a extremely random case, with no evidence if he can be charged or not. Although it is not even possible since he is dead and these random reports had no effect on his career. Bladesmulti (talk) 02:46, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

Please refer to proceedings from royal commission, you are expressing an opinion, not the fact that there are some allegations and an ongoing enquiry Totocol (talk) 08:06, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

You mean random allegations that lack any evidence? How they effect his career? Bladesmulti (talk) 08:10, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

Please refer to the official communications from the organisation itself recognising their wrongdoings. Initial report including findings that you call random allegations. Ongoing process will continue in March. Please present a new reasonable argument rather than continuing to revert my addition Totocol (talk) 08:57, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

The reasons marshalled for excluding this material are without foundation. To begin with, the allegations that the material amounts to slander are baseless: as a matter of law, in most jurisidictions you cannot slander the dead.

Next, the claims that we must wait until the outcome of the inquiry or for the allegations to be "proven" are likewise baseless. There is no such requirement. What is required is for the matter to have been previously published in reliable sources. As I mentioned earlier, the sources in this case are the Sydney Morning Herald and the Australian Associated Press, which easily qualify as reliable sources. Links to the inquiry itself are admissible; however, sole reliance on primary sources is not desirable because it is easy to misuse them in ways that amount to original research. The main sources should be the press reports.

Similarly, there is no requirement that we must first demonstrate that the issue had an effect on his career or biography, whatever that might mean. The topic is a controversy involving his biography and so is obviously relevant. Additionally, there is no question of WP:GOSSIP where the material is drawn from reliable news sources. These are not "random allegations" but evidence given under oath in a public inquiry and reported in reliable sources; we can include whatever these sources publish.

However, simply because we can include such material does not mean that we must. Bladesmulti rightly raises the issue of weight. I think this material requires its own subsection because it is a separate topic not related to anything else in the article. However, because this is a relatively short biographical article, the section should also be fairly (i.e. proportionately) brief. It should not be allowed to balloon and dominate the article. The material that has been repeatedly removed occupies exactly two lines in a thirty-two line article. This seems to me perfectly reasonable and proportional. In my opinion, it could be (but doesn't have to be) expanded to double its current size without becoming disproportionate.

Finally, while I assume good faith, I am puzzled by the ongoing attempt to suppress this material for reasons that are wholly without foundation, and can't help but wonder if the obstinacy is rooted in a simple opposition to including negative information about someone whom some editors admire. This is not a reason to exclude: Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and its biographies are not hagiographies, but aim to be balanced and neutral accounts of a people's lives, both the good and the controversial. Because I think that continuing to exclude this material is damaging to the article and without it the article is incomplete, I plan to restore the section in an altered format after giving other editors a chance to respond and comment. In my opinion, the section should stick closely to press reports, and not rely solely on links to primary sources for reasons set out in WP:PRIMARY.

I am happy to engage with other editors in order to find a way to include this material, but I will continue to oppose its suppression, and am prepared to escalate the issue to the dispute resolution noticeboard should no resolution be found through negotiation. -- Rrburke (talk) 16:43, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

I am happy to engage in those discusions too. Totocol (talk) 20:07, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

The truth is that the initial short reference to the allegations was expanded with the intention to shadow the rest of the article. The manner in which it was written also denotes the motives behind those edits. Anyone can claim anything in any court, but are we going to document any kind and all allegations? This just does not make any sense. As long as there is a section on allegations, the people promoting the slander war and the attack on this article, are going to be using it to expand it. You have to see through the motives and the reasons these people are attacking Swami Satyananda and this page. Why after 40 years of the alleged crimes, has now come a "witness" forth? Why now, when Swami Satyananda is dead? I have read all the material and the allegations. The way these are circulated through the internet is clearly to attack Yoga in general. They do not limit themselves to the allegations but they go forth to describe life in an ashram as that of compulsory labour. Karma yoga is reduced to compulsory labour. Bhakti yoga is made to look like a lower form of fanatical religion. This whole campaign at attacking Swami Satyananda and his Yoga, has one and only aim. And any thinking person may find that out. We should stick to the spirit and the motives surrounding these attacks. We should stick to the truth. And we should stick to the aim and purpose of this article, which is to inform people about the life and achievements of Swami Satyananda in the sphere of Yoga. Enigmafay (talk) 21:28, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

Your speculations about the motives behind the story are beside the point, and offer no basis for the continued suppression of this topic. Efforts to include this material are not "attacking" the article. The topic has been widely-covered in reliable sources, and merits inclusion in the article. Here is just a sampling of the coverage: [3],[4],[5],[6],[7],[8],[9],[10],[11].

With this level of coverage, the ongoing attempts to suppress this topic should be abandoned and effort now directed to how best to summarize and integrate material from the press stories into the article. I agree that the section should not be permitted to overwhelm the article. The section need not dwell on every salacious detail and become the main focus, but should fairly and accurately summarize what has been published in reliable sources, with due regard to proportion. -- Rrburke (talk) 22:32, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

I believe that the matter of sexual abuse of children should not be mentioned in this article at least for now. I would agree if it was the Mangrove Ashram article, all the physical and sexual abuse to be mentioned that even they acknowledged. Most of what has been mentioned in the Royal Comission hearings has been about the Mangrove Ashram that is a seperate legal entity. The fact that they were inspired by Satyananda or that they teach Satyananda Yoga techniques, I believe has no direct connection with Satyananda as a person or his life. Now, concerning the allegations that include Satyananda, even if they are true, I have only seen one from a woman who was 17 at the time and another from an adult. None of them constitute being a child at that time in India nor Australia so a mention of "sexual abuse of children", I believe, is wrong and it paints the wrong picture. I also believe that the matter of abuse by Satyananda is blurry in these allegations. I'm not sure the allegations against him even register as sexual abuse in a criminal sense. Until an official organisation acknowledges the allegations against Satyananda (and due process is being done currently) or other allegations are produced, in my respectful opinion, we should wait before such an inclusion is made in this article. ArisPs (talk) 02:26, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

the discussion here is not about whether some editors' opinion is if they believe the allegations are true or not. The main discussion is that there are already appropriate sources that include allegations that are relevant to this article and that so far the editors that continue deleting other editors' inclusions in this area seem to be doing it with arguments that are not in line with that wikipedia is aiming to do. The additions can still be kept as allegations but need to be included if this article is to remain objective. There are at least 3 accusations that have been made and if you read the way the Royal Commission is doing its work, the allegations that have been made public are just a representation of the testimonies they have received. A full report is going to be made available in January but there are so far a number of sources that are relevant and would add to the objectivity and relevance of this article. 181.54.53.178 (talk) 04:46, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

1. Of course, this is not about whether anyone believes in the allegations or not. This is about whether there exists any acceptable evidence or court decision regarding the allegations. Anyone is free to accuse anyone of anything. But such accusations or subjective allegations should not be included in this article.

2. The hidden agenda (which is actually obvious) and the motives behind these edits are certainly relevant. It is clear that the purpose of the people who attack this page is spread unverified rumors and cast a shadow on Yoga and one of its greatest representatives. The links that you provide are no evidence to the reality of the allegations. They just picture the accusations in a very colorful manner. As I pointed out earlier, the intention behind these articles are to harm the yogic tradition in general. This is obvious by the tone of these articles. The websites that publish them are interested solely on "selling something spicy" and what more spicy that sexual allegations of a spiritual leader. We should take into account the general atmosphere behind this internet campaign, and the fact that linking to allegations does NOT mean that you are linking to proof nor to evidence.

3. If one goes through the history of this article and reads the way the sexual accusations were expanded and written, they were taking up more than half of the rest of the biography. Then one will realize what is going on in here. Enigmafay (talk) 11:26, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Of course this is not a matter of opinion and whether anyone believes this or not. I meant something entirely different when I said that it is blurry but perhaps that was indeed an opinion and I withdraw that from this conversation. I won't elaborate, as it has nothing to do with Wikipedia and I apologise if I gave the wrong impression. I've watched the Comission hearings and I only heard about two allegations by people and they were not minors. If there is a third one by a child, that is a different matter. If someone could bring it to my attention, I would review my stand on this issue. To the matter of other testimonies that have not been made public, I respectfully don't think they should be a factor in deciding whether to mention abuse in this article. They have not been made public yet and we do not know if they mention Satyananda at all. If a mention about sexual abuse by Satyananda is to be added on this article, I believe that it should reflect only what he specifically is accused of and the sources should reflect that as well. If a link is provided to news articles that mention this, it should be about Satyananda and not mixed together with what other people have done or alleged to have done. I believe this serves objectivity. Does anyone have a suggestion on what should be mentioned on this article? As I said before I believe this should not reflect the actions of others and it should not mention abuse of children as I am not aware of any. Another point I would like to make is this. If, as someone mentioned, a full report is coming out on January, wouldn't it be wise for us to wait for a month? This matter about Satyananda hasn't been known for three or four decades, I don't think this should be an issue. We would all be much more informed. Lastly, I would like to say that if an addition is to be made titled "Controversy" it should reflect both sides of the argument. Shouldn't we wait to see if anyone from Satyananda's side have anything to say about the allegations against him? That is what controversy implies. ArisPs (talk) 15:17, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Page protection

I have placed full protection on this page for 48 hours. This is an admin action in light of the apparant edit war. It is not an indication that the current version of the article is endorsed by me, or anyone else for that matter, just how it happened to be when protection was applied. I suggest everyone discusses the controversy section on this talk page rather than constant reversion of the article itself. Nthep (talk) 11:41, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

I've extended the full protection for one week pending the outcome of the RFC. To reiterate Nthep's comment above: the current version implies no endorsement of the content–the measure has been applied to prevent continued disruption.  Philg88 ^♦talk 10:10, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Gallery

Select a picture from the gallery and insert it into the body text. Remove the rest. Having so many images of one place looks like WP:PROMO. It isn't difficult to link to a Comons cat. - Sitush (talk) 10:14, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 9 December 2014

We should capitalize the l of the section list of publications. Bladesmulti (talk) 10:11, 9 December 2014 (UTC)  Done  Philg88 ^♦talk 13:03, 9 December 2014 (UTC)