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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 172.56.15.217 (talk) at 23:36, 22 February 2015 (→An Sock puppet investigation concerning Cultural Marxism Deletion). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.


Big game hunters

You wrote in WP:AfD/Botella (measurement) (after markup-stripping):

I was training a new editor recently and was surprised at the level of hostility which was immediately shown to her. Without my assistance, her first experience of Wikipedia would have been very negative and we would have lost yet another editor. [...] Anyway, that other editor was User:Mauladad and it remains to be seen whether she will stick with it or is now quite intimidated.

That interested me. I took a look.

The editor has so far only worked significantly on a single article, "Bali Mauladad". The subject name and username show a striking resemblance. Anyway, in this edit, User:Loriendrew added the COI and Notability templates, with a neutral edit summary. At that point, reference and external link aside, the article consisted of one (1) sentence, viz:

Mohamed Iqbal Mauladad known as Bali Mauladad was a big game hunter in Kenya.

I would say that yes, COI looks likely and notability was not established. The article did have a reference, and the reference came complete with a quotation, one that's oddly relevant to units:

"Mohamed Iqbal Mauladad, 'Bali' as he was always called, was a huge man. Born in the mid-1920's he stood six foot one (two meters) in his socks, weighed 250 lbs (113 kilos) and sported a magnificent moustache."

Er, what? I stand nearly six foot one in my socks, but far short of two meters.

It's good that you are working to rescue articles, but you seem curiously prone to see "hostility" where I see mild and justifiable irritation.

I wondered how difficult it is for a new arrival to create articles that do suggest notability and do not suggest COI, so I looked at the articles I created when I was new, back in 2004. Here they are, each in the (horrible) state in which its second editor found it:

I'd like to think that I wouldn't perpetrate anything like any of them these days. (I now prefer this style.) But I think that each of them shows minor promise, in its crappy way. None was flagged for COI or notability, and I don't think that any risked this.

Are you perhaps too quick to see hostility? -- Hoary (talk) 00:04, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • Perhaps you don't have the full story? That first draft was put together quickly at the tail-end of the last London meetup. It was part of a crash course in which I was showing the new editor the basics of account creation, talk pages, article editing, &c. We didn't have time to do much but, when I got home, I saw those first two tags and so spent an hour expanding the article to this. That seemed good enough and it was then midnight so I went to bed. In the morning, I found that the article had now been tagged for speedy deletion and, before I could get to it again, it was gone. Both those speedy tags were inappropriate as the article made several reasonable claims of importance (A7) and was not exclusively promotional (G11) as the subject had been dead for over 40 years. Being experienced, I knew how to locate the admin that had performed the deletion and remonstrated with them. The novice editor would have had more trouble dealing with this by themselves because speedy deletion doesn't leave a good audit trail - the page in question has vanished, along with its history. The admin kindly restored the article without more ado — perhaps they realised that the tagging had been excessive. Subsequently, there was more challenging bureaucracy in getting an appropriate photograph added to commons, which required repeatedly contacting and persuading an 80-year old woman in France to log an OTRS ticket, &c. With that done, I did some more expansion to get the page nominated for DYK within the 7-day deadline - yet more red tape which a novice would have found difficult by themselves.
As for your articles, my impression is that you had it easier back in 2004. For example, looking down the list, I recognise the name of Jonathan Routh. I have no complaint myself about this as a topic but notice that your start didn't have any references. As this was then a BLP, you might nowadays find that a {{BLP_PROD}} is slapped on it if it isn't immediately speedily deleted as A7/G11, like the case above. Note that the page is still tagged as lacking adequate citations, 10 years later.
As veteran editors we can now take this aggravation in our stride, but I still reckon that the reception given to novices is too hostile. It's not just me who thinks this — see Encyclopedia Frown:

“The encyclopedia that anyone can edit” is at risk of becoming, in computer scientist Aaron Halfaker’s words, “the encyclopedia that anyone who understands the norms, socializes him or herself, dodges the impersonal wall of semiautomated rejection and still wants to voluntarily contribute his or her time and energy can edit.” An entrenched, stubborn elite of old-timers, a high bar to entry, and a persistent 90/10 gender gap among editors all point to the possibility that Wikipedia is going adrift.

Andrew D. (talk) 13:57, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I've taken up the invitation in your archive page to resurrect old discussions. (This particular discussion is only four days old, and I first saw the latest addition to it just hours ago, as I'd spent the turning of the year somewhere with no computer.)
No, I didn't have the full story. But now that I do, I'm not convinced. You say that this "seemed good enough", but I have difficulty discerning notability. I don't think that big game hunters are inherently notable; for this one, there's a claim that he was unusual in being of Indian origin, but this claim is backed up by a wiki and an article of almost half a century ago from a somewhat obscure newspaper. (Yes of course half-century-old articles in obscure newspapers may be cited, but it's odd for such a source to be vital for the most important claim in an article.)
It had never occurred to me that kicking off a brand new article would be a good introduction to editing Wikipedia. (I'm surprised to discover that I did this with my fifth edit, but the situation was different back then.) Depending on the person's skills and tastes, she'd be better off starting out by fixing spellings, making changes to wording, sourcing the unsourced, or similar. Doing this brings skills, it may bring the appreciation of others, it's likely to bring understanding of what's involved, and it also is likely to avoid the suspicion that the user is primarily/exclusively here in order to boost her own company/school/chum/ancestor/whatever. In particular, I wouldn't dream of suggesting to a new editor that she should aim for "DYK": the requirements are so many and so laborious that I've never wanted to attempt it myself.
Yes, things were easier in 2004. The idea seemed to be: "If what you want to say is going to seem reasonable to people who know a bit about the subject, you don't have to source it. And what sources you do specify can simply be listed at the foot of the article." The sourcing in my early articles is atrocious by 2015 standards. (It probably wasn't good even by 2004 standards. And there was a fair amount of "unencyclopedic" editorializing, some of which has lasted until today.) But even if I were to perpetrate these now, I don't think that there'd be any suspicion of COI, and I don't think there'd be questions about notability.
I knew that there was a wide male/female gap in en:WP editing but not that it was 90/10. This is a matter for concern and it's good that you are encouraging more women to join up. But I don't see any gender issue with the treatment of either the creator of many stubs for more or less obscure units or the creator of Bali Mauladad. -- Hoary (talk) 08:44, 3 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • You've never done a DYK? You should not be intimidated as your work such as Ken Grant would fit in quite well. The most challenging part is not so much creating the entry but reviewing the work of others. I am familiar with the formalities as I have done several dozen now. If I should notice some new work of yours, I may nominate it for you so you can see how it's done. Andrew D. (talk) 11:44, 3 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
When I get around to creating an article (which isn't often), I do like to start it on the substantial side; this alone would raise the chance of DYKability, I suppose. ¶ Oh dear, every time you mention one of "my" articles, I look at it and realize that it's in worse shape than I had lazily presumed. (Thence Routh [still poor], Grant.) -- Hoary (talk) 12:20, 3 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Andrew many thanks for your wishes. Have a great start to the new year. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mauladad (talk • contribs) 16:16, 11 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Andrew, Hope you are well. I have done a new article today. It is saved in the sandbox :) I got confused about the stub? Please can you have a quick look. Mauladad (talk) 15:27, 15 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Weights and Measures

Wrap reel

You created the above article, which is a fine stub, but I cannot see this going anywhere with the present title. There should surely be an article on the (mostly unsystematic) systems used for measurement in the textile industry, and I think this could be a good starting point for it. Suppose we renamed it to "Measurement in the textile industry"? Or do you have any other suggestions for titles. This would immediately mean that a list of the units we do know about could go on this page: currently both skein and lea go to a tangled web of DABs and the usual isolated claims about 4 decimal places of centimetres. Imaginatorium (talk) 09:35, 8 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'll skip your response, since you don't seem to have understood what I was saying. I am suggesting renaming this article more broadly, and I ask your comments on this, rather than plunging ahead. Or are you saying you have no further interest in the subject? Imaginatorium (talk) 14:32, 8 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Truss

Thank you much Andrew for saving the article Truss (unit). Shevonsilva (talk) 21:09, 17 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Obsolete units

Hi Andrew Davidson: Per your interest in the topic, check out the new List of obsolete units of measurement. NORTH AMERICA1000 21:57, 21 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Since you had some involvement with the Legal stone redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. Imaginatorium (talk) 19:27, 11 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Books and Bytes - Issue 9

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 9, November-December 2014
by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs)

  • New donations, including real-paper-and-everything books, e-books, science journal databases, and more
  • New TWL coordinators, conference news, a new open-access journal database, summary of library-related WMF grants, and more
  • Spotlight: "Global Impact: The Wikipedia Library and Persian Wikipedia" - a Persian Wikipedia editor talks about their experiences with database access in Iran, writing on the Persian project and the JSTOR partnership

Read the full newsletter

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:36, 8 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Renovation of the nuclear weapon arsenal of the USA

Renovation of the nuclear weapon arsenal of the USA is a bit more expanded. Check'em out bro and lead me.  - The Herald (here I am) 14:51, 26 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:37, 16 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]


February 2015 GOCE newsletter

Guild of Copy Editors February 2015 Newsletter

Drive: Thanks to everyone who participated in January's Backlog Elimination Drive. Of the 38 people who signed up for this drive, 21 copyedited at least one article. Final results, including barnstars awarded, are available here.

Progress report: We were able to remove August 2013 from the general copyediting backlog and November 2014 from the request-page backlog. Many thanks, everyone!

Blitz: The February Blitz will run from February 15–21 and again focuses on the requests page. Awards will be given to everyone who copyedits at least one request article. Sign up here!

Thank you all again for your participation; we wouldn't be able to achieve what we have without you! Cheers from your GOCE coordinators Miniapolis, Jonesey95, Biblioworm and Philg88.

To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list.

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:52, 7 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Deletion discussions

Notifications

List of interracial romance films

Hey Andrew, the AFD mentioned above turned into a bit of a mess. Someone made a non-admin SK closure on it, then when I suggested that was an inappropriate action, they opened a second AFD on it. If you want to comment on the new AFD, it's here. Townlake (talk) 20:47, 4 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for supporting the article. I've gotten started with some of the references there so if you'd like to chime in go for it. :) -AngusWOOF (talk) 05:41, 12 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Formula 1 (board game)

Thanks for your help at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Formula 1 (board game). Success. -Arb. (talk) 19:56, 11 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Wetted surface

You removed the proposed deletion template from Wetted surface. Do you believe that, given the various contexts in which this term is used, that a single meaningful article that goes beyond just the basic definition can be developed? The term is used in various disciplines (aerodynamics, fluid dynamics, hydrostatics, etc), but in all cases, it just means the surface area of an object that is in contact with the working fluid. The ramifications of the term are different for each discipline, and must be discussed within the context of the discipline. I don't believe a single article can go beyond the basic definition without uselessly reproducing information that is already developed elsewhere. WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 23:05, 11 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • The merits and development of the topic are best discussed at its talk page so that others, including its first author, may observe and participate. Note that I started the talk page and placed links to relevant sources there. Naturally, I checked these myself in the course of my action; I am always careful to check my ground. Please note also that the PROD process is only for uncontroversial cases and "must only be used if no opposition is to be expected". It should therefore not be used upon an article which has been newly created in good faith and, in this case, the article had only been created for 27 minutes. Such action is contrary to our behavioural guidelines such as WP:BITE and WP:DISRUPTION. Andrew D. (talk) 00:15, 12 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Castle Inn

Hi. I noticed that you pulled down the PROD but did not respond to the issues raised in it or make any improvements in the article. Can you point to any in depth coverage from multiple reliable sources for the subject required by GNG and GEOFEAT? I and a number of other editors have not been able to find much. See this discussion. I saw you posted some generic source search links but while those yielded no shortage of pormotional hits and a very few short blurbs, I don't see the kind of serious coverage required by GNG. Of course you may have found something that we missed. If so please let us know. Absent some serious RS coverage I suspect the article is likely to be sent to AfD. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:29, 16 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Is it a state secret? I'd rather not trouble people with an AfD if you can respond to the issues raised. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:23, 16 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This Month in GLAM: January 2015



Headlines
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The Wikipedia Library - ScotlandsPeople - You've got mail

Hello, Andrew Davidson. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.—  Philg88 ♦talk 08:14, 13 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Tech News: 2015-08

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Software changes this week

  • The new version of MediaWiki has been on test wikis and MediaWiki.org since February 11. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis from February 17. It will be on all Wikipedias from February 18 (calendar).
  • On Wednesday your Meta user page will be shown if you don't have a user page on a wiki. [1] [2] [3]
  • You can now change the order of categories in VisualEditor using drag-and-drop. [4]
  • In VisualEditor, you now need to make a change before you can "Apply Changes" to citations and templates. [5]
  • The way the cursor moves in VisualEditor is changing. Your browser now handles the cursor directly. Most of you will see no change. In right-to-left text, the cursor now moves in a 'visible' rather than 'logical' way. This is like other sites but you may be surprised at first.​ [6]

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  • The VisualEditor Team had their first public bug triage meeting on February 11. They will post the results on the meeting page. [7]
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Future changes

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17:57, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Editathon


An Sock puppet investigation concerning Cultural Marxism Deletion

[[10]] This investigation has been started to investigate RGloucester and suspected sock or meat puppet Jobrot. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.56.15.36 (talk) 12:58, 22 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Blocked for sock puppetry

Per our sock puppet policy undisclosed alternative accounts are not to be used in discussions internal to the project. Logging out to file a complaint against another user qualifies as such. It is clear from your knowledge of events that take place well prior to your edit history that you have prior history here. It is also clear you are using more than one IP to edit war and act disruptively at Draft talk:Cultural Marxism.

If you wish to appeal this block please log into your regular account to do so. Chillum 17:48, 22 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Let me know how that turns out for you. Being a brand new user jumping into a heated debate accusing another user of jumping into a heated debate is a bit rich, I am sure it will turn out well. Chillum 15:59, 22 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Response to above paranoid schizophrenic behavior. Not an account holder nor am I a boggy man and never made any claim to be a new user so that makes you a liar as well. It seems your paranoid behavior has led to a knee jerk paranoid action. Sorry but that is the truth that you cannot handle. Hey go ahead and range block, as it a cellular IP you will only block a few million of a major provider. It would be another ignorant but predictable move. Your online friend also salted the well laid out SPI investigation about an obvious sock or meat puppet of RGlouchester and a brand new account Jobrot. [11] Don't worry I saved it and will post elsewhere as more evidence of you get what you pay for which is not much when it is free. Interesting cultish behavior where without any evidence you make false accusation and attempt to bury well founded evidence. Keep up living in your little world of make believe. More evidence that project is failing to come close to its stated goal. Thanks for the evidence and your behavior is a bit rich. 172.56.15.217 (talk) 23:36, 22 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Articles for deletion/Nawabpur Road

If you have a reference for "It's the busiest road in the capital city of this country." it'd be good to add it to Nawabpur Road. -Arb. (talk) 15:37, 22 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

GOCE March newsletter

Guild of Copy Editors March 2015 Newsletter

Blitz: Thanks to everyone who participated in the February Blitz. Of the 21 people who signed up, eight copyedited at least one article. Final results, including barnstars awarded, are available here.

Progress report: The blitz removed 16 articles from the requests list, and we're almost done with December 2014. Many thanks, everyone!

Drive: The month-long March drive begins in about a week. Awards will be given to everyone who copyedits at least one article from the backlog. Sign up here!

Thank you all again for your participation; we wouldn't be able to achieve what we have without you! Cheers from your GOCE coordinators Miniapolis, Jonesey95, Biblioworm and Philg88.

To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list.

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:41, 22 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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