Talk:Icon for Hire

What exactly is her last name?

I'm a little confused as to the lead singer's full name. The reviewer at JFH calls her Ariel Bloomer, but the AMG review used to refer to her as Ariel Jump (the current page and every other piece I've seen on them just calls her Ariel). I've heard some people online claim that she's married to their guitarist Shawn Jump, which would explain the changes, BUT this is only hearsay I've seen in a few comments sections, nothing from a professional journalist or even the band themselves, and thus doesn't even come close to meeting WP:RS. Does anyone know what the story is with this (preferably backed up with some sort of WP:RS)?--Invisiboy42293 (talk) 03:18, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

In other words, how should we identify her in the article?--Invisiboy42293 (talk) 00:42, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Never mind, found a few sources and added them to the lead.--Invisiboy42293 (talk) 20:55, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Member naming

I'm not sure why Ariel's name is listed as "Ariel Bloomer" in the band members section but nowhere else. Anon continues to correctly change it to her stage name and in the most recent edit states that it's a mononym. Th4n3r continues to restore it to her full name without providing any reason. Time to discuss. I'm in favour of the mononym. Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:25, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

• I had a talk page section about it here before, but anon seems to have removed it. I'm also in favor of the mononym, mainly because most of the band's press info, as well as articles about the band, refer to her by the stage name. I'm starting to think we should have this article semi-protected like her article was.--Invisiboy42293 (talk) 17:27, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Having talked to her a couple of times, her legal name is Ariel Bloomer but professionally she prefers Ariel. So while either is technically correct I would recommend that this page only refer to her as "Ariel" since this is her professional endeavor.Jmarshak (talk) 21:00, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Removal of "Religious affiliation" section because the sources are "not reliable"

That's wrong. WP:RS describes what constitutes reliable sources. Here are the sources:

• Rueff, Ashley (July 2009). "Icon for Hire". Herald & Review (video interview). Retrieved August 15, 2012. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |coauthor= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)
• http://www.jesusrock.net/album-review-icon-for-hire
• "pizzamachine" (Contributor). "Scripted". Sputnikmusic. Retrieved July 30, 2012. {{cite web}}: |author= has generic name (help)
• Jamie Maxwell (Nov 2011). "Scripted". Cross Rhythms. Retrieved January 14, 2012.
• Matthews, Kent (September 1, 2011). "Music: Icon For Hire strives to be worth looking up to". Houston Chronicle. Retrieved August 17, 2012. Christian contemporary band Icon for Hire has a new CD out, Scripted. (photo caption)</ref> and some critics have noted references to the members' Christian faith in their lyrics. David Jeffries pointed out that "Christian ideals are the driving force" in the lyrics on Scripted, though he acknowledged that "you could look at this as a secular rebellion against the mopey 'scene' bands and still thrill at Icon for Hire’s fresh attitude and sense of purpose."
• Jeffries, David. "Scripted". AllMusic. Rovi Corporation. Retrieved February 6, 2012.
• Schexnayder, Nathaniel (August 2011). "Scripted". Jesus Freak Hideout. Retrieved February 6, 2012. {{cite web}}: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher= (help)
• Jones, Kim. "Icon For Hire". About.com. The New York Times Company. Retrieved August 17, 2012.

Which sources are unreliable and for which reason. The usual practice would be to mark a particular source rather than blank an entire section so you'll understand my concern. Walter Görlitz (talk) 01:02, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 April 2014

Is there a direct email I can communicate with to discuss the changes that are continually being reversed on the Icon For Hire page? 2601:5:1300:4DB:C01C:5CE5:E593:8D72 (talk) 21:19, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

No. This is the place where such changes should be discussed. Jackmcbarn (talk) 21:39, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Well then whomever locked this page needs to know the subject better. The band member list and test is consistently WRONG and my edits keep getting reveresed. Josh is not a member of the band. He is the tour bassist (and awesome at it) but technically the band only has three members. Just look at all their publicity photos and the bio page on Tooth and Nail. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmarshak (talk • contribs) 01:34, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

I should be able to correct it based on the provided URL. Walter Görlitz (talk) 03:56, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

I wasn't sure what to do with Kincheloe as your source didn't support any information on him. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:12, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

Table Formatting

Would anyone be able to fix the table under Discography: Singles for this page? Looking at the code, I can see where everything ought to be, but my knowledge of wiki coding is pretty limited. Louis from VA (talk) 19:55, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Citations needed on music videos?

"Yes, we need to cite the existence, or more importantly, the notability of them."

What does that even mean? I mean, these don't have citations for their existence or notability (of the existence?). The citations there are just the videos reposted by the Seattle Times. Icon for Hire made music videos. They're pretty clearly music videos made by Icon for Hire. We can go to Icon for Hire's Youtube channel and watch them. What else do you want to know? Should I contact the Seattle Times and ask if they want to repost them? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.45.58.20 (talk) 00:15, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

It means everything needs a reference especially if it could be challenged. Feel free to tag the videos in that other article.

Citing the videos' existence based on individual YouTube videos meets verifiability, but doe snot meet the reliable source criteria, as they are primary sources. The videos are best referenced using a secondary source, one where another individual discusses them. Although that's not necessary. Walter Görlitz (talk) 00:20, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

But all of this isn't relevant at all! If I claim timecube.com exists and link to it, I don't need a secondary source telling us timecube.com exists! Seriously, this is like asking a source on the colour of grass; readers can step outside and see for themselves. What could a secondary source possibly add to this? 212.45.58.20 (talk) 21:29, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

If you say so. The isn't about timecube.com though, it's about whether it's encyclopedic to list anything in the article. The question is not about existence but about notability. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:27, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Problem edits

A series of edits indicated here are problematic.

First, normally, indicating a subject's full name, as was don with "Ariel Bloomer usually simply referred to as 'Ariel'" would be acceptable, but the subject does not want to be referred to by her family name and so we don't. To introduce her family name would require a WP:RS and I would expect her friends, fans or publicist to remove it in short order as they have done in the past.

The full name has been appearing in the first section since a long time, and STILL IS.

As I tried to discuss with you on your talk page before you deleted all the discussion without saying anything: This change in the intro is to reflect the fact that Ariel seems to PREFER to be referred to as just "Ariel". User:Jmarshak wrote exactly that on this talk page above as he claims to have spoken to her about it. Now, as said on your talk page too, if you have better informations or if indeed she does not want AT ALL her family name to appear (and hopefully you have a reference about that), write something about it in the article (and delete her name by the same occasion)

Second, do not remove dead links. Mark them and editors may yet find an archived version. Adding a different link isn't always the best solution. And when adding reference, don't add punctuation after them.

We discussed about that on your talk page. I pointed to you that what you wanted to do didn't work and asked you kindly to modify it. Did you ?

Third WP:OR . Where in http://www.crossrhythms.co.uk/articles/music/Icon_For_Hire_The_rockers_bemused_by_the_Paramore_and_Evanescence_comparisons_/46555/p1/ does it indicate that it was a "crowded audience"?

"A few months later we played our first show to a *PACKED* club in our hometown"

What do you think the club was packed with ? cows ? (joke)

Fourth, what's "Actual members"? That's not used anywhere on Wikipedia and certainly not on any articles that have been reviewed for food article status. It's redundant and just looks like a high-schooler wrote that section. Current members, present members or just members are all fine. Actual members is weak.

Nice, just change it please. Thanks for that (I'm not convinced, but it's not the point). I added the section to be able to attach the references that were below by themselves with a "source:".

Fifth extra space after former members.

I was finding it was too packed otherwise. Mistake ? Ok, maybe.

There are other issues, but I just reverted.

Like you are reverting everything, here or elsewhere. Why not try to be a little constructive ? I asked you on your talk page to do the modifications we discussed (I consider that I tried) the way you wanted. Or you can correct things , but please don't revert everything everywhere all the time. It's discouraging for people willing to add content and help improve articles. Which is what Wikipedia is about, isn't it ?

Perhaps we could get other editors to comment. Walter Görlitz (talk) 21:40, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Would be great. Mevo Wiki (talk) 22:58, 28 June 2015 (UTC)