Talk:Koshchei

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Name origin

In Russian there's an abstract concept and pronounced as koschunstvo, which means to do something really evil.
In Ukrainian as a joke I heard a translation of the Russsian Koschei Bessmertniy as Chahlik Nevmiruschiy. Chahliy means extremely old.

the Bujan island is located in the kingdom of the glorious Sultan (by A. S. Pushkin)--Grigoryev 04:02, 12 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Koshei has something to do with gold "Там царь Кощей над златом чахнет..."(There is the Tzar Koshei loses health over his gold -Pushkin)–Gnomz⁰⁰⁷(?) 00:21, 19 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Koshei is considered extremely wealthy, the quote refers to this. The translation however does not exactly convey the meaning. Main nuance is greediness of Koschei.--46.109.54.96 (talk) 20:46, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am Russian and do studies in literature, so I think it is neseccary to clarify some matters. There is no evidence that the briefly mentioned Koschey in Pushkin is identical to the Koschey of folk tales. Pushkin was a 19th-century Romantic poet and the quotation is from his Western-styled fantasy poem 'Ruslan and Lyudmila' which has little to do with original Russian folklore. Pushkin often used folklore names for his own purposes. I would also like to point out that 1) the description of Koschey's appearance (as that of an ugly old man) is sheer nonsense. It is only in book illustrations and cartoons (most of them created in the 20th century) that he is given such looks. The actual fairy-tales DO NOT describe Koschey at all. The reference to his appearance sould be moved to 'In Popular Culture'. The last but not the least: deriving the name from 'kost' ('bone') is a wrong folk etymology. 'Koschey' is a very early loanword from Turkic which originally meant 'captive' or 'slave'. It is found in 'The Tale of Igor's Campaign' Good luck89.178.54.173 (talk) 17:11, 17 February 2011 (UTC) P. S. I have partly rewritted the opening section. By now, I have no time to correct the etymology, so I will return to it later.89.178.54.173 (talk) 17:28, 17 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I took out the part about American Gods because I could find no verification of Koschies presence in the book, I then read the book and could not find him

"In Russian there's an abstract concept and pronounced as koschunstvo, which means to do something really evil." - "koschunstvo" means blasphemy or abuse of somebody's memory--83.237.46.248 17:04, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Move

To comply with WP:RUS, I propose moving this article to "Koshchey". Esn 11:10, 11 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think this would fall under the "Use conventional names" guideline. "Koschei" would appear to be a convention based on 44,800 Google hits as opposed to under 1000 for "Koshchey". Gr8white 19:42, 25 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Phonetics

Extremly useful would be a general pronounciation information, something like X-SAMPA or the like

--Agreed, this would be very handy. I still don't know if it's Kosh-tshey or Koschey.--Snowgrouse (talk) 01:35, 7 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I would say Koshtschey. In German, at least. The main problem is letter "щ", which is a single letter, but is considered as a simultaneous pronounciation of "ш" and "ч". Both do not exist in English and have to be "translated" as well ("sh" as in English and "ch" as in sandwich, accordingly). Hence problematic pronounciation.--46.109.54.96 (talk) 20:59, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There is no 't'-sound anywhere in the sound that 'щ' represents. "Shch" is just an unfortunate transliteration. It's basically pronounced as the part of the 'ch' in "sandwich" after the t-sound. I can't speak for the Ukrainian or Polish pronunciation, but the Russian pronunciation would be something like [Kaɕːj'ej] in IPA. The closest you can get in plain English would be "Kash-yey" (the stress is on the 'е', so the 'о' is pronounced like an 'а'). Kolbasz (talk) 23:25, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Suicide Squad

Why is the Suicide Squad reference moved? It was a title published by DC comics like Sandman.

Please provide a reference. `'mikka 01:36, 22 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I dont know how to put the reference in. But I can find you the link. Feel free to make the appropo. edit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onslaught_(DC_Comics)#Team_two_.28Suicide_Squad_vol._1_.2317-19.29

German legends?

All this is strongly related to German myths of liches, dead sorcerors' ghosts which need to keep their phylacteries safe; these items hold their souls bound to real world, and cannot be destroyed other than through shattering the specified item. Due to this, some translators use koshchey to translate word lich.

Do liches actually exist in German folklore? The article lich seems to indicate otherwise (the word "lich" is indeed cognate with German leich - "corpse" - but use of "lich" to refer to a specific kind of undead is modern [originally it simply meant "body", "corpse"] [1]). On the other hand, monsters or sorcerers whose life is bound to some kind of item do appear in a number of fairy tales and myths; TV Tropes lists multiple examples. - Mike Rosoft (talk) 18:08, 29 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to go ahead and delete that paragraph. I have never come upon a germanic or otherwise legend similar to Koschei, even though I have frequently heard that the concept of Lich has a strong folkloric precedent, although I suspect there may be a similar concept in the Arabian Nights. Besides, It's already clear that the first instance of usage of the word "lich" refering to a person who achieves immortality hiding his soul in an object is in the 1977 Monster Manual by Gary Gygax. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.84.130.6 (talk) 16:44, 24 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Just want to bring attention to the connection of Koschei to island of Buyan, which is considered to be island Ryugen near Germany.--46.109.54.96 (talk) 20:51, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Jürgen note

In Cabell's "Jurgen: A Comedy of Justice," Jürgen praises the Devil, not Koschei. Koschei rewards Jürgen for being the first person ever to speak well of the Devil, who is Koschei's creation like everything else.