Talk:Thai people

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Thailand is a country in the Asian Pacific. It is located in the cnetre of south-east Asia. Thailands population consists of 83, 585 thousand people. It's people per km is 125. Where does the figure of 51 million come from? I ask because Thailand has well over 60 million people. Of course, maybe we are excluding people in Thailand that are not Thai. But still, I am curious about the source. Anagnorisis 04:58, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

It's from the CIA factbook, and it's the figure for ethnic Thais. It actually includes the Lao as well, so it should be much lower. For the population of Thailand see Thailand. Mark^{your words} 11:51, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

The joshua project says that about 30 million THAI.

There are 20 million ethnic lao people in Thailand, so the population should be much smaller. Anyone care to change? CanCanDuo 16:27, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

That figure of 62,000,000 Thai people in Thailand cannot be correct. The entire population of Thailand is estimated to be around 64,631,595, and only about 75% of those are ethnic Thais. The remainder are mostly Chinese. The total non-Chinese population of Thailand should be approximately 55,583,171, but that figure also includes a total of approximately 7,109,475 ethnic Malays, Khmers, Mons, and other non-Thai people. Ebizur 18:36, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Furthermore, about 29.4% of Thailand's population (approx. 19,000,000 people) speak the Isan dialect of the Lao language (it is really part of a dialect continuum between "Thai" and "Lao", apparently), which means that this large fraction of the Daic population of Thailand is ethnolinguistically more closely related, or at least equally related, to the Lao people that predominate in neighboring Laos. Ultimately, slightly less than half (about 45.6%) of the population of Thailand is ethnically Thai, which would put the Thai population of Thailand at approximately 29,472,007 or close to 30 million persons. Ebizur 18:59, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

"related groups" info removed from infobox

For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all {{Infobox Ethnic group}} infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 23:24, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Appearance

When I looked up this article I was looking for things about their genetics, ie tall or short, eye color etc since this is an ethnic group. 75.164.159.157 (talk) 22:39, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

How can you make the number of Thai ethnics population in Thailand at 64 million?

I have Thai nationality by birth, but I can't consider myself as a Thai or Tai ethnic. There are at least 8 million Han-Chinese origin in the country. And around 3-5% population of 64 million is Malay (which most them are Muslims)

125.25.84.157 (talk) 17:22, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

คุณลองอ่านบทความให้ดีครับ บทความนี้เขากล่าวถึงว่า เดิมทีใช้เรียกเพียงแค่ชาวสยามครับผม แต่นานๆเข้าอย่างที่ชาวไทยเรานั่นแหล่ะเข้าใจว่า ชาวสยามมันน้อยลง(ซึ่งที่จริงก็ไม่ได้หายไปไหนหรอกเพียงแค่ว่ามันถูกกลืนกับชนกลุ่มน้อย และด้วยนโยบายจอมพล ป ที่มีลูกมากซึ่งชาวจีนมีลูกมาก) เราทราบๆกันดีครับว่าคนไทยส่วนใหญ่สืบเชื้อสายสยามกันหมดถ้าเป็นพวกคนภาคกลางและภาคใต้ เพียงแต่ว่าถ้าเป็นชาวสยามแท้ หรือไม่ก็เป็นเชื้อชาติหลักเป็นไทยสยามจริงๆมันมีน้อยครับผม ตอนนี้ผมกำลังหารูปที่เป็นชาวสยามใว้เป็นตัวอย่างครับ เท่าที่เห็นว่ามีรูปในวิกิหน้าภาษาอังเกรียนแล้วก็เพียงเห็นแค่ลีซอ น้าเทิด และ สมเถา สุจริตกุลครับ เดี่ยวจะงมๆต่อให้ครับ

อย่างที่คุณสงสัยว่าบทความนี้กล่าวถึง ไทย(thai) หรือ ไท(tai)-กะได นั้น บทความนี้เขาเหมาแค่เฉพาะ ไทยที่เป็น thailand อะครับ นั่นแปลว่าเขาเหมาเอาชาวสยาม ชาวล้านนา ชาวลาวตะวันตก(อีสานบ้านเฮา) และชาวเขมรเหนือ(ไอ้ปากห้อย) ครับผม คงคลายใจแล้วนะครับ

--โจ : แฟนท่าเรือ : เกรียนที่หน้าตาไม่ดีแห่งไร้สาระนุกรม : พูดคุยกับควายตัวนี้ได้ที่นี่ 12:00, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

This is English Wikipedia. Please use English, so that every user will be able to read your post. --RJFF (talk) 12:43, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Most of Thai Chinese are not Han Chinese, they are Thai Chinese, since most of them had thai blood/genes. According to the latest study of chinese genetic in China, chinese are 75% southeast asian, of that 35% austronesian/malay, and 40% are tai kadai

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example people

it's hardly to find about majority Thai Siamese people ethnic, in modern days in thailand thai siamese it so few (in my opinion i go out from my house i found major thai-chinese, laotians, southern-thai, lanna people) also thai super star are so few pure siamese people and to hard to example thai people article, my ethnic father - Teochew, mother - gujarati, persian, malay, hainanese, siamese, portuguese and my mom also Colonel(army) --โจ : แฟนท่าเรือ : เกรียนที่หน้าตาไม่ดีแห่งไร้สาระนุกรม : พูดคุยกับควายตัวนี้ได้ที่นี่ 11:53, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Agreed, but you don't have to cluster half of the infobox with luk khreung, as if luk khreung were the only typical or notable Thais. The infobox of an ethnic group does not necessarily have to feature superstars. There are still enough people of mixed descent in the infobox. Samak Sundaravej has Thai-Chinese and Lao roots, Aed Carabao has Chinese roots, even King Rama I had partly Chinese roots. I agree that you will hardly find any modern Thai who is of 100% Thai heritage. --RJFF (talk) 12:42, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Answering your post on my user talk page: It is not me who claims that 75% of the population of Thailand are ethnic Thais. It is the CIA World Factbook. Obviously, they subsume central Thais, Lanna, Southern Thais and Thai-Lao in Isan under the category 'Thais', while 14% are ethnic Chinese and 11% other. Of course that is not entirely correct, as it mixes up the nationality 'Thai' (consisting of different ethnic groups) and the ethnicity, by summarizing all native, congeneric ethnic groups as Thais. But so does the article. The article covers central Thais (or Siamese), northern Thais (or Lanna), southern Thais, and Thai-Lao (or Isan people). If you think that this is incorrect and unbearable, you can propose to split the article, then the community will decide, and there will be either consensus to do so or not. But I, personally, think that the different ethnic groups of Thailand have blended and intermingled to an extent that it doesn't make sense (or is even impossible) to consistently differentiate between separate etnicities. Your diverse ancestry (as you recited above) is a good example for this phenomenon. --RJFF (talk) 14:37, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Considering the nicknames: I think that we should use the official names, unless the person is much more commonly (or exclusively) known under their nickname. "Aed" Carabao, for example, who is almost never referred to as Yuenyong Opakul, should be cited as Aed Carabao. I know that nicknames are used very often in Thailand, but you can compare e.g. to Oprah or Beyoncé who are usually known by their first names in the US and internationally, but Wikipedia lists them as Oprah Winfrey and Beyoncé Knowles, because it is an encyclopedia and not a yellow press outlet. --RJFF (talk) 14:46, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Yep, I agree on the use of nicknames. Nearly all Thai people have them, but the proper way to refer to them in any polite context is by their real names - with the exceptions of those who are actually best known by their nicknames. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 14:54, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

compare the term between of siamese and thais

i am waiting --โจ : แฟนท่าเรือ : เกรียนที่หน้าตาไม่ดีแห่งไร้สาระนุกรม : พูดคุยกับควายตัวนี้ได้ที่นี่ 19:50, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Lede

Thai people (Template:Lang-th) define Thai as free, freedom-loving; Thai, pertaining to the Thai or Thailand; Thaiman, a Thailander. A Thailander regards Tai (ไท, ไท้) as having the poetical, literary, archaic or obsolete meaning of "lord" or "boss."

Propose changing lede as show, followed by difference between usage as political v. ethnic term; relation of the ethnic term to Tai people; and historical usage of the exonym Siamese. Chinese Sien is sometimes treated as synonymous, but need to clarify Chinese used it to refer to what in English is called the Shan States, and not for the historical Siamese. —Pawyilee (talk) 06:36, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia (unlike Wiktionary) is not a dictionary, but an encyclopedia. Articles are not intended to explain words, but to explain things, concepts or phenomena. Your proposed introduction focuses strongly on the meaning, etymology, and history of the word Thai, instead of describing the subject of the article. (By the way, only folk etymology claims that the name of the nation/people (Thai) comes from ไท ('free'). It has been unverified by linguists. So Sethabut (1903–1970) obviously still adhered to the obsolete (albeit still popular) theory which has since been found false by younger scholars.) Moreover, unlike in a dictionary, where one article explains all meanings of a word, in an encyclopedia, there is one article per concept. So, if one word has different meanings, there have to be several articles. Therefore, I cannot support your proposal to explain and differentiate the different meanings of 'Thai' in this article.

'Thai' means 1. the citizens of Thailand and 2. members of the ethnicity. (Of course it is difficult to differentiate because there are (practically) no Thais of 100% Thai descent, given that Thais have mixed with and assimilated members of other ethnic groups for centuries). Moreover, the nationalist Thaification policy of 20th century has led to many Thai nationals identifying as ethnic Thais, no matter what their real ethnic background is. This is what, in my opinion, the article should explain, in order to possibly clear the confusion about "real Thais", "Siamese" and the like.

I am not against having a section about the etymology of the word and related terms ("Siam" and "Shan" obviously have the same root, but in both cases they are exonyms: Shan call themselves "Tai"...), but it should not be the lead section. --RJFF (talk) 11:40, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

This is why I proposed it here, instead of boldly changing the article. BTW, is there an easy way to convert th:สอ เสถบุตร to English? —Pawyilee (talk) 06:41, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

I don't think so. Because of the different structure of both languages, translating machines usually produce gibberish. Btw, the article says that he was affiliated with the government of Field Marshal P. Phibunsongkhram. In my view, this is one more reason to question his reliability, because he might have been influenced by their strongly nationalistic ideology and historiography. --RJFF (talk) 12:24, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Is that what you characterize as being affiliated with Phibun's regime? —Pawyilee (talk) 04:13, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

A group of 80 political prisoners, many of them former government officials and military officers highly placed within the government prior to the overthrow of the absolute monarchy in 1932 were sent to Tarutao in 1941. Most had been involved in the failed Boworadet coup of October 1933. The government didn’t want them to mix with the general prison population, so they were housed at a special area close to the beach at Talo Udang Bay. One of the political prisoners was So Sethaputra who had begun creating a Thai-English/English-Thai dictionary whilst inside Bang Kwang prison in Bangkok. He had won a King's scholarship to study overseas and after returning to Thailand had worked for the civil service and contributed articles to newspapers. However, some of his pieces were deemed to be too critical of the government and he was charged with sedition in 1934. The thirty-year-old scholar managed to have reference books, stationery and dictionaries smuggled into the prison so that he could work on creating his dictionary. After So and his cellmates were caught with a radio they had smuggled into their cell they were sent to Tarutao. So continued to work on the dictionary and completed the 4,000-page work during the Second World War after being transferred to Surat Thani. His dictionary is still used today.

—A Slice of Thai History: Tarutao: island of prisoners and pirates by Duncan Stearn

Obviouusly I have misread this part. --RJFF (talk) 16:28, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Etymology

"Siam" and "Shan" are not all that obviously etymologically related. The former is thought to be of Pali origin; the latter, from Chinese Sien, but no one can be sure that they are from the same origin. It should be made clear that writers on the subject up through the reign of Mongkut wrote that the Siamese always called themselves Thai, and their country Mueang Thai. Chulalongkorn, however, established the office of Crown Prince of Siam in 1886, and Wright in Twentieth Century Impressions of Siam (1904) opined that Siam would continue to be the name of the country. Some references from the Journal of the Siam Society heritage site:

• "The relations of Thailand with other countries gave rise to the use of various foreign terms in connection with purely Thai names. One of the most glaring examples is the name of the country itself which foreigners continued to call Siam for at least five centuries, though to the Thai themselves it was known as Muang Thai."The Origin of the Tical. de Campos, J.J. (1941)
• "...[I]ts cradle was precisely in the country designated by foreigners as "Siam" (Khmer: Syam; Chinese : Sien, etc.)"The Origins of the Sukhodaya Dynasty. Coedes, G. (1921)

Coedes equates the terms, but as de Campos argues with respect to the origin of the term tical, that doesn't make them equal. Furthermore, some latter-day scholars limit Sien to what in English were called the Shan States to the north of the Siamese cradle.—Pawyilee (talk) 13:05, 23 June 2013 (UTC) Struck out. —Pawyilee (talk) 15:41, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

According to B.J. Terwiel and Chaichuen Khamdaengyodtai (Shan Manuscripts, 2003, p. 9), there are different theories about the etymology of Shan (and Siam). They mention (1.) from the Chinese word for "mountain", (2.) from the same root as Siam, and (3.) from Malay sayam ("brown"). Accoring to them, the most probable theory is the second one, with both words (and also Assam) being possibly derived from Mon rhmañña ("stranger"). --RJFF (talk) 16:28, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Diaspora

I find it funny that there is no significant Thai population in China. I also see in Austria there are quite some: http://www.thailovelines.com/Frontinfo/thai-women-austria.html

What is the cut off for "significant". Surely it should be as a percentage of the population? Or is it absolute numbers?