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The result was Keep. Prodego talk 02:21, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

List of automobile model and marque oddities

The previous AfD has ended with no consensus because many users and the closer focused on WP:NPOV and WP:NOR as reasons for deletion, which one can argue can be alleviated by extensive editing, splitting and renaming. However, one important and valid reason for deletion was lost along the way - WP:NOT#Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. Even split and renamed, the contest of this page would still present a collection of unencyclopedic trivia. WP should not and does not (hopefully) contain lists such as List of actresses whose given name is longer than family name.

Please vote delete if you agree with this very argument or vote keep if you can substantiate that this article does not violate this policy. Thanks, Bravada, talk - 17:40, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Update - the related (nomen omen) List of unrelated vehicles with identical nameplates was deleted for similar reasons. NOT deleting this article now would be nothing short of a case of WikiSchizophrenia.
I also hope some of the editors of those articles managed to create a copy within their user pages, or perhaps will dig one out of the Internet Archives, so that it won't be lost. Those are really fun and it would be a pity of so much work just went up in fumes. They only don't belong in Wikipedia, but perhaps in some less encyclopedic and more relaxed, car- or trivia-oriented Wiki. Bravada, talk - 09:19, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete, too specific and trivial information to be of interest, listcruft. JIP | Talk 17:56, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. There are fairly specific grounds for inclusion in the "list". Perhaps it should be moved to Automobile model and marque oddities, since there is in fact more discussion here than just a "list", and calling anything a "list" anymore seems to be waving a red flag in front of the bull. Lists must hide, it seems. Smerdis of Tlön 18:42, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep, the article seems a bit lacking in focus and direction - it's not clear what actually constitutes an 'oddity' - mostly it reads just like some guy rambling on about things that he finds curious or interesting. I doubt that many people would be seeking this information - so it's mostly just a big waste of time for the editor(s). On the other hand, I'm not a 'deletionist' and I don't think this page is actually doing any harm beyond the $0.01 worth of disk space it consumes. It's not misleading anyone with false information (as far as I can tell) - so...meh...keep it I guess. (NOTE: In the interests of openness, I should note that I was surprised to discover that I'd actually contributed to the article - but that was only to correct Mini to MINI). 18:49, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Tentative Keep and relist on Deletion review, too soon after original closure. Morgan Wick 01:04, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Needs some cleanup of terms like "interesting" (an opinion that belongs in a magazine column rather than an encyclopedia article) but the basic information is valuable (and interesting). Fg2 07:29, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment - so perhaps I'll just go and start this List of actresses whose given name is longer than family name. Also, how about List of motor cars whose front track exceeds their height? Bravada, talk - 08:35, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      • Comment - which brings us back to the age-old m:Deletionism versus m:Inclusionism debate. I'm an unabashed inclusionist and I don't have a problem with these ultra-obscure lists - even the two ridiculous examples you mention here. They are pointless - probably nobody will ever read them - but the cost in terms of disk space consumed by all of these ridiculous lists put together is negligable compared to even a single unnecessary 2000x2000 resolution picture of a Pokemon or something. The only kinds of lists I object to are the ones that are downright misleading or which will turn into untruths if not actively maintained (which they won't be). So I would delete a hypothetical List of the most popular candybars because in six months tastes will change and the list will be wrong. But List of actresses whose given name is longer than family name may be incomplete - but so long as it has the template at the top that warns that the list is incomplete - then we aren't misleading anyone. The red flag for me is lists with superlatives in the title "The most XXX" or "The worst XXX" - those are unmaintainable and must die. So what is the benefit to keeping these pointless articles? Well, it prevents flamefests between people who wish to delete them and the people who (often stupidly) created them. That's a good thing for harmony and peace in the Wikisphere. But this is a deep and ancient debate and we aren't going to resolve it here. The fate of these articles randomly depends on the ratio of inclusionists to deletionists who happen to sign the AfD. SteveBaker 15:25, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - I'm also an inclusionist, and am unhappy that this was again proposed so soon after a no-concensus was reached. Shall we keep voting until folks who want to keep it fail to notice and respond? --SFoskett 13:53, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • This was not my intention as nominator. The last nomination was closed with no consensus because the discussion sprawled over too many unrelated issues, and some reasons for deletion mentioned were not applicable or sufficient. Yet one important reason prevails and it has been omitted by most disputants and the closer, so I wanted it to be discussed specifically - as explained in the lead section. Unfortunately, only one of the persons participating in the current discussion related to it in their comments. Bravada, talk - 13:58, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      • Comment OK, I'll take on the "indiscriminate list of trivia" item. That entry lists certain specific things that should not be included. Among these are Lists of Frequently Asked Questions, Travel guides, Memorials, Instruction manuals, Internet guides, Textbooks and annotated texts, and Plot summaries. This is none of these. It is an article about odd marques and makes of automobiles, where "odd" specifically means "unusual" (per wiktionary). These are all unusual. As for whether it belongs here, I feel it does. It was created and edited by many people, contains much interesting information, and is no less encyclopedic than most other lists (see List of recent automobile models by type for a particularly ridiculous list). At least it's somewhat interesting, factual, and fairly complete... However, I have another suggestion: Perhaps this should be merged with the marque article, since these seem in general to support that topic. --SFoskett 13:41, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
        • I think it could be a very good solution! I think the marque article could explain how marques and model names are used and give examples of some peculiarities, so that some of them listed here could be salvaged. Do you think you could do that? Bravada, talk - 14:11, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Userfy if one of the contributors wants to take responsibility for moving it off Wikipedia, then delete per WP:NOT#Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. Interesting but not encyclopedic. Not much of the content should be merged into articles about individual vehicles or manufacturers, and the topic does not belong here at all, but virtually all of it would be good for some automotive reference whose purpose and standards differ from Wikipedia's. Barno 00:55, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment: The "inclusionism vs. deletionism" debate is not helpful in resolving this AfD; people should leave that noise on policy-debate pages and discuss the facts of this topic and how they fit policies. "Let the troublemakers have their way to avoid fights" is neither WP policy nor a way to produce a better encyclopedia; this instead reduces WP's credibility. Barno 01:01, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, the article is valid to be on Wikipedia. For God's sake look at it, so much work has gone into it. It is wholly verifiable and sourceable. If there are issues with part of it, change it, don't delete it.
  • Split into multiple articles. --Gray Porpoise 19:53, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 02:39, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Off Topic Forum

  ATTENTION!

If you came here because somebody asked you to, or you read a message on a forum, please note that this is not a vote, but rather a discussion to establish a consensus amongst Wikipedia editors on whether an article is suitable for this encyclopedia. We have policies and guidelines to help us decide this, and deletion decisions are made on the merits of the arguments, not by counting heads (or socks).

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Delete - non-notable web forum; fails WP:WEB. The page was initially tagged for speedy deletion as an attack page, but the tone of the page has become less disparaging since. Fabricationary 02:48, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep - This is one of the UKs most popular internet forums and is certianly the largest Off Topic Forum in the World, since January 1st 2006. It is well known in the media and is a grapevine for current events in sport and news alike. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KrisDorey (talk • contribs) 5 August 2006
  • Comment - If the above statements can be verified by reliable sources (i.e. more than just the forum's own statistics), then I'd be willing to change my position. As it stands, I can't find any media coverage of this specific forum, and Alexa traffic rankings only cover the full domain, not individual pages. -- H·G (words/works) 19:08, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, as I see it, it's not debatable at all. It almost certainly doesn't meet the first two prongs of WP:WEB. The third ("a site which is both well known and independent of the creators") has not been established in the article, which WP:WEB requires ("the article itself must provide proof that its subject meets one of these criteria via inlined links or a "Reference" or "External link" section"). Until verification can be provided that the article meets any of the criteria, it certainly fails WP:WEB. -- H·G (words/works) 23:30, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Maybe keep, definitely rename. The term "off topic forum" is in common use on any number of websites, so notable as this particular forum may be, the title isn't particularly appropriate. I was the one who db'd the article early on, as I assumed it was a prank article about the "socially inept" members (as the article phrased it at the time), but in it's current state I'd say assume good faith and see where it goes, so long as it goes there under a more appropriate (and less appropriative) name. SB_Johnny | talk 23:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Changing my vote to Delete after another read. With the exception of the first paragraph or so the article is just silly cruft. If it's a web phenom, all the article needs to say is that it's a phenom, and why. --SB_Johnny | talk 18:14, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Agreed that is a good page but despite being the biggest OTF, the page could be placed under the header of SI OTF or somethingKrisDoreyAdam

User has already logged his "vote" once. Striking out duplicate to reflect this. -- H·G (words/works) 19:49, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - The last thing that flangepieces like Argel need is publicity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.13.154.132 (talk • contribs) 6 August 2006
  • Delete. More of your general forum vanity. Should we really care about which individual member posted what? JIP | Talk 17:58, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete typical forum vanity entry, complete with a list of the moderators! Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 18:24, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per above. — Dark Shikari talk/contribs 18:51, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per Starblind.--Andeh 19:45, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per Starblind. --Wafulz 21:00, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete tried to check out board to see if it was worthwhile. You need to register just to look at the board. If this were a notable board, you wouldn't have to. Stev0 21:24, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Should be kept and tried as an organisation and not web content. The web is merely the medium for the informal organisation of like-minded users. "Organizations are usually notable if the scope of activities are national or international in scale and information can be verified by a third party source." The scope of the forum is certainly notably international and the fact the pre-registering and approval is required to view the forums sets it apart from being a run-of-the-mill online community and it is a member's organisation. Activities undertaken by the organisation include a charity bike ride around the world and meetings in London and Amsterdam. 68.145.107.234 00:21, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • There's already an article for the organisation at Sports Interactive. This article is about the forum, which isn't notable.--Andeh 09:45, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      • Failed to comprehend the point there. The forum in itself could be considered an independent, albeit informal, organisation separate from SI or anyone. There is international scope and notable events which give this forum an extra dimension from most other Internet forums. Okayplayer has been mentioned, a band called Los Campesinos! have been championed on OTF and recently signed a deal, in part thanks to the exposure received on OTF. Just because there is a general nature to the movement instead of a specialised one does not mean it should be deleted. It should, of course, be completely re-written. 68.145.107.234 21:23, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, this article is about as useful as a happy meal without a toy — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.207.122.13 (talk • contribs)
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The result was speedy delete as patent nonsense, it's called wikiality, not wikireality! - Mailer Diablo 05:02, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wikireality

Non-notable neologism per WP:NEO, and just because it was invented by Stephen Colbert on cable television doesn't automatically mean its notable. My original prod was removed by page creator. hateless 00:06, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. DS 16:13, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Brian Hood

Hoax article by creator of now-deleted hoax article Patrick Fitch, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Patrick Fitch; neither of the claimed TV shows has an entry on IMDB. NawlinWiki 00:11, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom —Minun Spiderman • Review Me 11:46, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Johnathan Wendel. Morgan Wick 00:34, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fata1ity

drivel Selmo 00:20, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete as unverifiable, original research, neologism. Turnstep 04:56, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Colberrorism

Stephen Colbert protologism; author removed speedy tag w/o explanation. Is anyone else sick of Colbert? I sure am. NawlinWiki 00:25, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. Prodego talk 02:26, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Citrus drop

Importance in question. Extremely short article about store-brand soda flavor. Might deserve a brief mention on the main Kroger article, but scope is too limited for a full article all its own. — NMChico24 00:57, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sango123 23:41, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

ZeldereX Online

No indicated notability, seems to fail WP:WEB and WP:SOFTWARE (as per User:Peephole). -- Omicronpersei8 (talk) 01:00, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Speedy delete non notable. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 13:58, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Christopher Paul Robinson

Did some researching and can't turn up any evidence of notability. The article's subject seems to fail WP:MUSIC. Crystallina 01:06, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect. Once again, people: Please just redirect these things, rather than wasting time with AFD.--SB | T 05:26, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Professional basketball

Dictionary definition. All of the information here is contained in other articles, and I don't see how this could be expanded much to make it worthy of existing on its own. fuzzy510 01:29, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sango123 23:41, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

RVC revolution

Non-notable youth basketball team. 64 Ghits, only 9 of them unique, and they all seem to refer to a soccer team, not a basketball team, technically meaning that there's nothing to show that this team exists at all. fuzzy510 01:34, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was SPEEDY DELETE as a copyvio and blatant spam. JIP | Talk 18:02, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fishing reel repair

Copyright violation Selmo 01:41, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sango123 23:41, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Cheetah Girls TV series

The article is entirely unreferenced, abysmally written, and concerns a non-notable television series that was apparently never released. John254 02:17, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sure I will link that right now. :)

OK its there now :) :)

  • Delete. Sorry, that's one of the actors saying that the TV series is delayed. No confirmation from MTV.com or ABC/Disney that the project wasn't cancelled. Puts it a little ahead of the curve, but still in the nature of round, crystalline objects. — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 21:39, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Sango123 23:42, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Nessesidy

Apparently this comic doesn't even exist? Nothing on Google for 'Nessesidy Sabrina'. User:Zoe|(talk) 02:23, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was DELETE. fails WP:WEB --Madchester 09:56, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Damnyouall.net

De-prodded by anon with the compelling justification "Reason: up yours." Prod concern was "Non-notable web community, fails WP:WEB." Was speedied a few times back in December, it never got past "Family Guy based theme site. More info on the way," so I don't think it counts as a repost, unfortunately. -- Vary | Talk 02:28, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]


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The result was delete. Sango123 23:42, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Leave the Hall

This one station college radio show that is only a few months old is not sufficiently notable. Erechtheus 02:33, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sango123 23:43, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Webee Boys

The article is entirely unreferenced, abysmally written, and concerns an apparently non-notable band. John254 02:41, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sango123 23:43, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Tim O'Dwyer

Blatant copyvio[4] and non-notable. I would have used the speedy delete tag, but one of the requirements (it seems) is that it was made in the past 48 hours... maybe I'm just confused, but here's the AfD. EVula 02:46, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Gals! The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 23:11, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Mami honda

There is no sufficient claim of notability in this article. While characters may be notable enough to merit an article, the only clear claim here is that this is a character. It isn't even clear in what she is a character. It does not appear that any reason is likely to arrive -- the article has been listed for cleanup since April. Erechtheus 02:53, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 17:11, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sneaky Lying Cheating Giant Ninja Koopas

The article is entirely unreferenced, and is comprised entirely of a plot summary of a non-notable episode of an implicitly referenced television show whose existence has not been established. John254 02:55, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

To be fair to the user who created it, the vandalism warnings are only related to removal of the AfD tag from this particular article, rather than anything more system-wide. Not that it excuses removing the tag three times or so, just that it puts a slightly different spin on the events. BigHaz 05:07, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - stop me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the general practice to have an article on the show before an article on the individual episodes? BigHaz 22:07, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - This article is linked from Super_Mario_Bros._television_series. This appears to be an episode of Captain N and the Adventures of Super Mario Bros. 3. I watched that show when I was a child so I know it exists. Wikipedia already has several articles on television articles, so it appears that a television episode is a notable topic for wikipedia. There has already been some debate about the notability of television episodes at Wikipedia:Centralized_discussion/Television_episodes. That page states: "First, create an article on the television show. Once there's enough independently verifiable information to do so, create articles on each season, or some other logical division, of the show. Once there's enough independently verifiable information included about individual episodes, spin the information from episodes out into their own articles." If the article is too short, it might be a good idea to merge all the episodes of a season into one article. Also, one episode of this show consisted of a 15 minute "mini-episode" of Super Mario Bros., 30 minutes of Captain N, then another 15 minutes of Mario Bros. Thus, I think that if each episode has its own article, it might be better for the two "mini-episodes" that were aired as part of a bigger episode to share an article. In regard to the article needing references: shouldn't the episode itself count as a reference? Q0 04:47, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete WP:NOT for plot summaries. ~ trialsanderrors 08:10, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Sango123 23:44, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Mjolnir Battle Tactics

This is a pure vanity article. It contains information about a closed community that is of no use to anyone else. This is also simply a continuation of a petty "war" MBT have with another group in the closed community, which exists purely to gain the most members, and as such is nothing more than vain advertising. (apologies for multiple edits, i'm new) Elmicker 03:02, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I wish for this article to be deleted. It is no more than ads. --Hotshotesquire 03:55, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, the group in question has a history of similar behavior on bungie.net as well. As a moderator of Bungie.net, I do not wish to see a reputation built against Bungie.net for this group's actions. The article so far violates the NPOV rule, the No Original Research rule, and the No Advertisment rule. GameJunkieJim 03:08, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sango123 23:45, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Kring's Law

Supposedly "a mainstay of Internet culture". Google tells us it has been used 21 times in only one forum, lavag.org. Fails WP:NEO. -- Fan-1967 03:20, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus for deletion or merging, those who want to pursue merging are free to do so. --Sam Blanning(talk) 13:56, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Neuros MPEG4 Recorder 2

Delete Commercial for Neuros products. AlistairMcMillan 03:21, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I am also nominating the following pages for the same reason:

Something else I meant to mention. There are only two editors on the first nominated article. User:AKemmler and User:Stirwen. All of their edits have to do with Neuros. Also User:N0iz77 and User:JoeBorn seem to be here solely to promote Neuros and their products. AlistairMcMillan 04:46, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sango123 23:45, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Meigs County, Ohio RACES

This is a non-notable local group with no outside verifiable sources establishing a reason for notability. Erechtheus 03:22, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirected. Morgan Wick 01:29, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Surgical prosthetics

This is just a definition with little potential for expansion. Transwiki. Erechtheus 03:39, 6 August 2006 (UTC) Withdraw. I agree with the below editors and have boldly redirected as suggested. Erechtheus 00:42, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sango123 23:46, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Enuff Said Records

zero non-Wikipedia ghits JianLi 17:40, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sango123 23:46, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Cackbean

Article describes itself as being a GUI paradigm, but Google returns precisely two hits, both referring to this page. Article was created by a user with one edit, too, so it's probably a case of something someone made up in school one day. -/- Warren 04:09, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Sango123 23:47, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Karate (Atari 2600)

This is an article about a non-noteable minor Atari game; furthermore, the only actual text in the article is a reference to a DIFFERENT article that says the game is "one of the worst ever on the Atari". On top of that, the only OTHER thing present in the article is a box that was ripped off the Atari Age website without permission. There is nothing in this article worth keeping. Ex-Nintendo Employee 04:25, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Except for the fact that the POV is the entirety of the article (with the exception of the copyright-vio pictures stolen from Atari Age). Ex-Nintendo Employee 05:12, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
As far as the POV goes, the fact that it's said to be such a bad game is a fact - while if the article said "It is one of the worst games...", that would be closer to POV. As it currently stands, the article says that someone else says that the game stinks and then links to a place where someone else says exactly that. The pictures and their copyright is a different matter. BigHaz 06:06, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep -- zzuuzz (talk) 18:21, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Venus Butterfly

Wikipedia is not an instruction manual. Even if it's something you and your wife really like to do together. At the very least, this is original research. :-) Unverified, too. eaolson 05:08, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

OK, but most of the information presented here is original research in the sense that is it gathered from personal experience, research and experimentation. Do a google on "venus butterfly" - I'd expect Wikipedia to have something on the subject.

That is what my posting was - the results of vast research and experimation on the subject. My wife can verify the results - reluctantly, though. Do what you think is best.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmedalen (talk • contribs)

Keep or Merge to cunnilingus (nice rewrite). Not sure it marrets it own article would suggest the merge Betacommand 02:05, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge and Redirect (vote change) following CanadianCaesar's rewrite. Works well as a blurb in cunnilingus; generally speaking, the only way I could see it continuing as a stand-alone article would be if more detail were added, but that's certainly not necessary for this topic. Still, not opposed to keeping it if this is deemed prudent. -- H·G (words/works) 09:14, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Sango123 23:54, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sesame Street: Wild World

Hoax. No such game on Google searches for Sesame Street: Wild World (animal crossing does exist). Prod removed --Clappingsimon talk 05:11, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy keep. AfD is not the forum for this: use {{copyvio}} if you find any. - CrazyRussian talk/email 06:35, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Kappa Alpha Order

  • Strong DeleteThis article is awful. Chock full of spelling, grammar and usage errors. Most of the article is just c&p from Kappa Alpha website. L0b0t 20:36, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment It's not a matter of one liking the spelling (My personal opionion won't make someone a better speller.). I have fixed many of the minor problems, but it is still poorly written and copied almost verbatim from another source. I'm not in that fraternity so I don't feel qualified to write a whole article about it. Maybe a member would like to write an article but as it stands this is just a vanity page.L0b0t 04:36, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Using your logic almost every single fraternity and sorority article is vanity and should also be placed on AfD. Even if it is copy and paste you put a copyright violation tag and not an AfD tag. --† Ðy§ep§ion † Speak your mind 05:26, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 17:12, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sonic The Hedgehog Online

Appears to be dead, most of the text is copied from other sources, and is a very minor part of both Halo and Sonic. Bronzey 05:52, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think this deserves to be deleted. Hell, they're really dedicated tot he mod, and they've been working at it for two years. It shows infinite promise for the future, and most of the content is in fact not copied from elsewhere. ~BlackArmsShadow

  • Dont Delete: This mod is far from dead. It might be a fan based mod but I belive all mod should have a chagne of being placed up on here. If no then you should delete them all - includign the hot coffee mod. From what I've seen this mod has a huge fan base in both the sonic and halo commutiy thought their seems to be a few that dont like the mod as the dotn like halo, sonic and fan-games such as that. If thisn't adversting etehr it like the rest of wikipidia - just giving infomation about their game, like sonic robo 2 game, hot coffee etc: From Gellian "reserch before jugment everytime"
  • Delete I'm all for listing mods, but only if they are both significant and released. Maybe recreate when this is done. Ace of Sevens 21:39, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep the kids at the forum are getting together to work on the entry. They aren't Wikians, they'll need time and guidance. I'll try to help 'em out when I'm wikiing. Bustter 21:55, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Doesn't seem particularly notable, even among mods, and it's pretty crystal ball-ish as well. No disrespect intended toward your work, and no bias against re-creation if it's ultimately released and covered in mainstream media. -Hit bull, win steak(Moo!) 11:37, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per bull/steak/etc... Wickethewok 14:10, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per above LactoseTI 02:11, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Sango123 00:30, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Gangsterhood

The subject of this article is a non-notable, text-based online game. I proposed it for deletion, and the creator removed the {{prod}} tag. NatusRoma | Talk 05:54, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete, then redirect. Sango123 00:32, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Holding Pattern

No evidence this is a notable piece of software. An unconfirmed award from download.com doesn't assert notability. A search for holding pattern there does not turn up this software or its award. No mention of the award on the official site.--Crossmr 06:02, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. -- zzuuzz (talk) 18:34, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Kambojas and Kambodia

I can't tell whether this article is a copyvio of [9], or if it's the other way around, and I'm looking for input on this. If this article is a copyvio, it has to be deleted. In any case, though, the article is a jumbled mess that contains some inappropriate ownership language, although it can be cleaned up, and so if not copyvio, medium strong keep, but opinion is requested. --Nlu (talk) 06:03, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

mergeto Cambodia. Looking at the derivation of the term, I consider it should be merged with Cambodia. In similar transliteration cases, redirection is the most common choice: Bombay is redirected to Mumbai and Peking to Beijing.Ohconfucius 07:18, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, I'm going to make an educated guess that the website you linked to copied this from Wikipedia, based on one small fact: the link at the top ("For Kamboja migration to West/Southwest India, see: [8]") works in the WP article (and goes to an anchor in another WP article), but goes nowhere in the kambojsociety.com article. -- H·G (words/works) 20:34, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not copied from Kambojsociety.

To the participants here, the article Kambojas and Kambodia on Kambojsociety [10] has been copied from the Wikipedia and not the otherway round. There are numerous other articles on Kambojas which the Kambojsociety website has copied from Wikipedia and placed in their website. Hope this removes any misunderstanding here.Sze cavalry01 00:10, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep in light of new facts. I sent a msg to the folks at KambojSociety notifying them of their copyright problem. Hopefully they will stop trying to copyright stuff they take from wikipedia. We'll see.--Kchase T 22:05, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is it not Wikipedia's intent to let others copy and use/distribute the Wiki articles for the spread of education/information? If that is so, the Kambojsociety website is simply placing the Wikipedia Articles of interest to them on their site for the spread of information. Probably they should somewhere say that the articles belong to Wikipedia.

By the way, I have no bad feeling regarding that. Sze cavalry01 23:33, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

    • I don't have much bad feeling about it, either, and I agree with you about our goals. The problem is just that it creates extra work for us if they do that with many articles (b/c things like this happen). If they note that the material is licensed under the GFDL, then there's no copyright problem for either party, even if someone thinks WP copied the material from elsewhere, as long as that material was originally licensed under copyleft.--Kchase T 00:26, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      • The problem is that at the same time that they copied the material, they also put a copyright notice on the bottom of the page and did not acknowledge Wikipedia. --Nlu (talk) 11:42, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Speedy delete, recreated content. Jaranda wat's sup 01:18, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Surrey jack

Neologism. Was prod-ed and deleted back in July. Few relevant GHits. Gogo Dodo 06:17, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge into La Ronde (amusement park). Ifnord 05:16, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Mégadôme

A display area for Nintendo products does not merit inclusion in Wikipedia. It is possible that the original dolphin tank might be noteworthy, but it is impossible to tell from this article. Delete. Skeezix1000 20:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at the article history, I see that was suggested in 2005 when this article was first put up for AfD (Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Mégadôme). I have no problem with merging into La Ronde, although I'm not sure if there is anything worth merging. The article strikes me as entirely deletable. Is a Nintendo promotional display noteworthy enough to merit mentioning in the La Ronde article? I can't tell from this article if the former dolphin talk is noteworthy or not. Maybe someone with more familiarity with La Ronde and this so-called Mégadôme could shed some light on this. --Skeezix1000 11:49, 31 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It wasn't incomplete. For some bizarre reason, Whispering removed it from the July 30 AfD log ([11]).--Skeezix1000 13:01, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
 AFD relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
 Please add new discussions below this notice. Thanks, - CrazyRussian talk/email 06:30, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Sango123 23:54, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Muck bowl

An annual high school football game. Notable? Sarge Baldy 06:43, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy delete as non-notable group. Turnstep 17:54, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

K3BSA

Amateur radio station. Slightly more notable than the average ham in their shack. This one introduces scouts to amateur radio. But still not notable and a dangerous precedent to allow any amateur radio call sign. -- RHaworth 06:45, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sango123 23:55, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bobby Bentley

WP:BIO subject not notable: football coach, who have coached kids with unrealised potential in high school are a dime a dozen Ohconfucius 06:55, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sango123 23:55, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Open-IPTV

The article of the show that Open IPTV came from, Bastard Sons of Dial-Up, is also being nominated for deletion. azumanga 06:57, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sango123 23:55, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Jack Fleming

Decision was Delete Willy No1lakersfan (Talk - Contribs) 22:33, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

non-notable fictional character character stub with litle or no content. I am also nominating the following related pages for the same reasons:

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The result was no consensus. The majority of editors arguing for deletion brings it close to that point, but as there isn't a particularly overwhelming argument against the numerous, apparently independent web articles being ineligible to be considered "reliable and reputable" (several are certainly not blogs), it's insufficient. None of the evidence presented appears to have significantly changed the direction of the discussion, but little of it was directly replied to, leaving this discussion inconclusive. --Sam Blanning(talk) 14:11, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Moulann

Notability appears to be unshown. Delete. --Nlu (talk) 07:20, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • oppose Article just need expansion. Notability isn't official reason for deleting articles. Until that clause is added to official policy, there must be another reason to justify the deletion. Monni 07:58, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • delete. I believe she may be asserting her notability by abandonning her surname. However, fails WP:BIO - subject not notable. none of the Google hits are from credible sites or without commercial interests. Ohconfucius 08:03, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. The awards are respectable, but the WP:BAND criteria aren't met. Also, I can't find a review at http://www.theglobeandmail.com/ or http://www.thestar.com/ , which I would have expected for a Toronto musician. http://www.google.com/search?q=Moulann+site%3Anowtoronto.com shows several listings but no reviews. TruthbringerToronto (Talk | contribs) 08:38, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Keep - See this link on Alexa - this may be on a fairly artist-friendly source, but it has some facts on the popularity of some of her songs. The article as it is needs to be rewritten, I think, but she might be worth some sort of article. --Brianyoumans 08:49, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. She appears to fail WP:BAND given the information in the article and a quick googling. Interestingly, the first award link (the only one I'd consider to be a "major music competition") 404s. The others I wouldn't consider to be major competitions (maybe the Shonen Jump one... maybe). More verifiable information may sway my vote, however. Additionally, to answer the concern raised in the first keep vote, I should point out that notability is often considered a requirement for anarticle being encyclopedic and not just random information (which is a requirement for inclusion as per WP:NOT). See WP:NN for details. You may not agree with the concept of notability, but the overall consensus of those involved with AfD seems to be that it is, indeed, a very valid reason for deletion. --FreelanceWizard 09:35, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Fails WP:MUSIC, WP:BIO, and I can't find any notiblity. Thε Halo Θ 12:58, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Even last.fm, which chronicles obscure musical tastes quite well, shows fewer than ten users who favor her material.
  • Oppose Moulann is an independent artist. WP:BAND One of the notability guidelines is that a performer outside the mass media tradition should be " frequently covered in publications devoted to a notable sub-culture" - she appears to be in numerous publications devoted to at least one extremely notable sub-culture: The North-American Asian Community. I've added a few links I found. Flaxen0 1:15, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
User's only edits are here and to the article in question. --Nlu (talk) 07:51, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Winner of several prizes although the music style she makes causes her to attract no MTV-like attention. Article is well referenced from indepedent sources although it could use a more encyclopedic character. Also, as stated above, all the notability essays should be used with extreme caution especially in the case of specific sub-culture topics or people with less mass-media exposure. Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 10:04, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, because I can't and won't vote against keeping musicians I've personally heard on the radio. Bearcat 09:38, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Delete. She comes close to meeting WP:BAND, but in the end can't quite clear the hurdle. Perhaps later in her career. Fairsing 16:53, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Vanessa Mae, pardon my French, is notable, Moulann is not. Ohconfucius 05:22, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment There are different levels of notability. Vanessa Mae, has been promoted heavily for years by a record label. In contrast, Moulann is a completely independent artist. The two artists are representing completely different genres and markets. Remember that there is room in wiki for artists outside the mass media tradition. Moulann has been documented at least 3 times (that I've found online and personally heard) on CBC Radio One, Canada's most notable and credible radio station, as well as other significant Canadian and Asian-Canadian media. Flaxen0 11:35, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • What is this "documented" you speak of? Did she have her own feature show, or was a song of hers played on the radio? ~ trialsanderrors 01:49, 13 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • The "documented" I speak of is having been featured and interviewed on radio shows, and having songs of hers played on the radio. She's not in regular rotation on commercial stations, but I've heard her on CBC a few times and seen her in some of Toronto's Chinese newspapers Flaxen0 13:11, 14 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was speedy delete as a non-notable club. Turnstep 17:59, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ratt F.C.

Amateur indoor football team, no evidence that they are particularly notable. The bar for football clubs is generally set much high than this. — sjorford++ 07:37, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Have any of you ever heard of Bury F.C. Didn't think so, but your not going to delete them are you? Of all the insignificant football teams on wikipedia, this is hardly the most obscure — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nikosss13 (talk • contribs)
Yes, I have heard of Bury FC. (that's assuming you mean this one). They're an Eglish club playing in league two. The difference is that Bury is a professional football team, and notible, while Ratt F.C. is an amateur team. It simply is not notable. Thε Halo Θ 14:57, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Sango123 23:56, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Bearhanded Russians

Fails WP:BAND, tagged for speedy, but a novice editor removed it. Rklawton 07:36, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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The result was delete. --Sam Blanning(talk) 14:15, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Jihad Beauchman

WP:BIO, A really good college athlete - but that's about the sum of his life. Speeded once already. Rklawton 07:58, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Should I include the amazing outreach programs he installed at yale for the young black kids in the community? would that keep the page up — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pirrc (talk • contribs)

First, read the links I've posted on your Talk page. Second, read WP:BIO. This will help familiarize you with Wikipedia's standards and help point out areas where this article might be improved. Lastly, please sign your comments with four tilde's so we'll know who posted them. Rklawton 08:08, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep and expand. How I read WP:BIO is that someone who manages to land All-American status in the NCAA would just barely meet the standard for amateur sports players ("Sportspeople/athletes who have played... at the highest level in mainly amateur sports, including college sports in the United States"). However, I'd like to see some citations for the claims in the article, and right now there's nothing in the article that clearly states his achievements specifically enough for a good judgment to be made on his notability. If someone knowledgeable in track and field competitions could make a determination, I'd change my vote to support theirs. --FreelanceWizard 09:07, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as non-notable. -- Kjkolb 09:42, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • I Say Keep.. The kid was amazing at Nationals as we almost never see anyone from the ivy league in the jumps do as well as this kid did. I'm sure he broke his school records as well. Sounds like a pretty decent kid too. -- Tracksharked 10:12, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment the above user's only contribution to Wikipedia consist of what you see here. Read into that what you will, but I don't think it helps the case any. Rklawton 17:26, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. If he makes a career in sports, he may be reintroduced. As for now, he is only potentially notable. Fram 20:24, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as non-notable inasmuch (a) as the subject's Yale University biography and DirectAthletics athlete history suggest that Beauchman did not earn All-America honors (having, instead, been named a finalist to be an Academic All-America and an Academic All-Ivy Team member; (b) as, assuming arguendo that Beauchman was honored as an All-America, he is nevertheless non-notable per WP:BIO, which, pace Freelance, I construe to reference, with respect to (American college sports, only those sports that are themselves notorious (meriting, for example, articles apropos of coaches [e.g., Rick Barnes] or teams [e.g., 2005 Texas Longhorns football team]), such that those partaking of such sports are likely to be newsworthy or are, in significant numbers, likely to essay profesional careers—as against those of NCAA basketball, football, and baseball, participants in NCAA track-and-field are, even those earning All-America honors, are in many cases profoundly unlikely to pursue professional sports—and (c) as, irrespective of the extent to which the subject's biography comports with WP:BIO, I'm not a particular fan of the broad sportspeople criterion of BIO. FWIW, it seems well-settled that any extra-athletic activities undertaken the subject don't confer notability, so it can, I think, be safely said that Pirrc need not to adduce the subject's community service toward the proposition of the subject's notability. Wow, I began that entry intending to support weak keep and, as is my wont, got a bit pleonastic.Joe 02:02, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • I Say Keep.(References). http://ustfccca.cstv.com/sports/division1/spec-rel/061906aab.html and also http://ustfccca.cstv.com/sports/division1/spec-rel/071306aab.html , i am part of this group, so this should vefiry that he was both an all-american and academic all-american -- Tracksharked 10:12, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    I say editors shouldn't vote twice in the same AfD. I also think that editors who do want to vote twice should have a total of more than two contributions to Wikipedia, unlike your case. Rklawton 05:27, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong keep per above, as well as WP:BIO: "at the highest level in mainly amateur sports, including college sports in the United States." --badlydrawnjeff talk 11:04, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per Wikipedia:Vanity. Although the subject should be congratulated for attaining All American status, having ONLY THIS ACHIEVEMENT does not make the subject "widely recognizable" or "memorable" (as per the 100-year test in Wikipedia:Criteria_for_inclusion_of_biographies) or "encyclopedic". Even if you apply the Google-test, the results can be partitioned into two groups: 1) publications by his alma mater, and 2) results from competitions. By the way, when WP:BIO states "at the highest level in mainly amateur sports, including college sports in the United States", I would suggest that the "highest level" in the subject's sport would be at the Olympic level. Ultimately, the question is: "Is the subject well known BEFORE being placed as an entry into the Wikipedia?" The answer is: "No." (And as an afterthought, what about an athlete for a sport like American football, which is not a game included in the Olympics? For American college football, the "highest level" would probably be the Heisman Trophy.)
Wookiepedian 22:07, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • It's interesting that you cite the two parts of WP:BIO that are said to not have broad support, while ignoring the part that does and that is more binding - his achievements "at the highest level in mainly amateur sports, including college sports in the United States." The subject was indeed well known in his area prior to being an entry here, the verifiable information proves it. --badlydrawnjeff talk 22:39, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      • I'm sorry, I don't understand. Just because something is verifiable does not make it encyclopedic or notable or worthy of inclusion in the Wikipedia. Your referenced "verifiable" article [13] states that he achieved 11th place at the NCAA Track & Field Championship. That competition is not the "highest level" in the field of high jump, and his performance was not the "highest level" even within the competition. The Wikipedia article for high jump has, as its illustration, "Gold medal winner Ethel Catherwood of Canada scissors over the bar at the 1928 Summer Olympics." Are you suggesting that the Olympic games are at a lesser level than the NCAA Track & Field Championship? (When I read the phrase "at the highest level...including college sports in the United States", I'm assuming that the phrase means "at the highest level of a sport which could be played in college, including sports played in the United States not played anywhere else in the world", which takes precedence over "at the highest United-States-level of college-sports-in- the-United-States". There's a subtle difference, which goes back to the American football and Heisman Trophy example I gave earlier. )
Wookiepedian 23:10, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Addendum, Wookiepedian 23:38, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
        • Actually, it was the highest level at the competition, as it granted him All-American status. That makes him one of the tops in the nation that year. I've always read the "highest level" clause as "We have articles on professional athletes, which is the highest possible level for those sports, and articles on the top atheletes at the amateur level when there's no professional alternative," such as these track stars. The Olympic Games are an entirely different situation. --badlydrawnjeff talk 00:55, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
        • We don't have a hand-picked national team that competes internationally in these sports? I find that hard to believe. Surely that would be the next logical level above college competitions. Rklawton 02:38, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
        • Badlydrawnjeff, it is possible to be a high jumper after college; see [14] (also located in Wikipedia as Charles Austin), who was born in 1967 and "proved he is still a force by winning the 2003 U.S. indoor title.". According to the article, Austin even has an agent (Cubie Seegobin) . Likewise, college athletes do participate in the high jump in the Olympics, such as Hollis Conway: "Conway went 7-8 3/4 in the event at the 1988 Summer Olympics in Seoul, Korea, setting a U.S. collegiate record and earning a silver medal. He won a bronze medal in the 1992 Summer Olympics in Barcelona, Spain after going 7-8 1/2 in winning the U.S. Olympic Team Trials that year." There are also other international venues; check out the Wikipedia entry regarding International Association of Athletics Federations. As far as Beauchman's earning 11th place in the competition, there are only ten All American high jumpers [15]. Furthermore, "He was the eighth American in the field" of that particular compeition [16], so apparently two All-Americans didn't compete in that particular NCAA competition (or did worse than he did?), and at least three foreign-born students did better than he did...? So I'm guessing a) that All American status is determined by one's overall performance during a season, and therefore b) that the particular competition in which he placed 11th was not THE highest level ("the IAAF" equivalent or "international ultimate-finale event") in his field.
Wookiepedian 21:53, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
(minor clarifications)Wookiepedian 22:19, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
(Ambiguous "eighth")Wookiepedian 22:35, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
        • At the collegiate level, this is THE highest level meet. Anything beyond, including the olympics, would no longer fall under the scope of the collegiate level. The status of All-American is awarded to the top 8 finishers and the top 8 americans overall in an event AT the NCAA National Meet. Beauchman was the 8th finishing american, earning the HIGHEST recognition by the USTFCCCA and the NCAA. The finisher in 9th was not an american, and because of this only 10 persons were awarded All-American status. While the specualtion about whether this is the highest level has been only that, speculation, as a track and field coach, I can assure you that this IS the highest level meet on the collegiate level, therefore satisfying the guidlines set forth by Wikipedia. Look at any collegiate track and field team schedule, and you will notice it is the final meet, and the meet most prized by all programs, with only their most talented and dedicated competing at that level. Tracksharked 22:58, 10 August 2006
          • Tracksharked, so that brings up three questions:
Question 1: According to your explanation, is it correct to draw the conclusion that "All American" status could be conferred in the field of high jump in any given year upon anywhere between eight students (all top 8 finishers are American born) and sixteen students (top 8 finishers are foreign-born, followed by 8 American born) ?
Question 2: Would the following situation be possible: Suppose all but one high jumper at this final event had been born outside the United States. The sole American-born student earns dead-last place among all the competitors. But he still would get "All American" status, correct?
Question 3: Is the NCAA National Meet limited to American colleges, or can colleges from other countries (such as from Germany) participate?
Wookiepedian 03:01, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
        • The scenarios you suggested above would be possible, yet that american who finished last would still be the BEST american collegiate high jumper in the country, quite an achievement in itself. But I believe you are approaching this competition in the wrong manner. The amount of qualifying for the event means that only the BEST collegiate atheletes will make it to the meet, and only the ELITE will excel. All atheltes who wish to compete must meet a qualifying standard in order to enter a regional meet. Then at the 4 regional meets (east, mideast, midwest, west), only the top 5 are guarenteed a spot at the national meet(Beauchman finished second at the regional meet, losing first only in a jump-off with a florida jumpoff). This double qualifying means only the best are invited to the National meet, which is only for schools in the NCAA, which are US schools. International schools have different requirements of their students who are allowed to compete (no age limit or amateur requirement), so there is no world collegiate meet. I hope that helps.Tracksharked 03:55, 11 August 2006
          • Thank you for the clarification regarding my questions. It sounds to me that the NCAA National Meet is very important in the domain of the NCAA (or more specifically, Division I college athletics?), and is the final word in the realm of NCAA participants, but arguably it is not the final word for college athletes in general. There was nothing stopping him from participating in the Olympic trials during college or afterwards except for his desire to participate and his own performance in trials, correct? If Beauchman wins a medal at the Olympics, then he most probably would deserve to be included in the Wikipedia, for he would likely become "well known" (his name would probably be printed in every newspaper in the country, and he would probably appear on national television for the awards ceremony and/or interviews); otherwise, ONLY winning the NCAA National Meet or gaining All American status would be insufficient. The spirit of the guidelines in Wikipedia: BIO emphasizes that people must be "widely recognized", "well-known", "whose work is widely recognized", or of "renown or notoriety". Wikipedia: BIO states (bold emphasis mine) "People who satisfy at least one of the items below generally merit their own Wikipedia articles, as there is likely to be a good deal of verifiable information available about them and a good deal of public interest in them." In other words, the criteria are not a guarantee for inclusion, but only increase the probability of inclusion: a person could be the winner of the NCAA National Meet yet also still be completely obscure to the general public, and therefore not worthy of inclusion in the Wikipedia. I went over to www.ncaa.org, and typed in "Beauchman" in the search field; it replied with "No results matched your query".
Wookiepedian 21:53, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Wookiepedian 22:08, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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The result was keep. AFD is not cleanup. Learn to edit, please.--SB | T 05:31, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hawaiian English

Essential points are false; No verification possible. Agent X 08:25, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep; sofixit would apply. There are so many types of English that have articles on Wikipedia, and I doubt this one is non notable. CanadianCaesar Et tu, Brute? 08:42, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. I did some Googling [17] [18] and I can't find any independent verification of the claims in the article. That doesn't mean they aren't verifiable, of course, but I'd expect to find something. An article that claims the existence of a dialect, I think, should be deleted if no citations can be provided to validate the claim. However, I'm not familiar with this topic, so I don't know what may or may not exist in the academic literature. I'd say leave it with the unreferenced notice, put up a factual accuracy dispute notice if you challenge its validity, and start looking for some sources one way or the other. If it really is unverifiable, and there's some research to back that up, then it should be relisted on AfD. --FreelanceWizard 08:49, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. I can confirm that official sites in Hawai'i use the spelling of the Hawai'ian language for Hawai'ian words. The official State of Hawai`i website at http://www.hawaii.gov/portal/ uses the spelling Hawai`i. The article has been around for a long time and seems well-researched. Note, however, that a Google search for "Hawaiian English" will turn up a lot of bilingual Hawaiian-to-English dictionaries rather than a description of the standard English spoken and written in Hawai'i. TruthbringerToronto (Talk | contribs) 08:59, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Here's what I just added to the stub/article's talk page. It quotes from the constitution to show that essential points of the stub/article are obviously FALSE. According to Wikipedia policies, the burden to verify is on those who want to keep, not on those who want to remove. Agent X 09:27, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"OFFICIAL LANGUAGES

Section 4. English and Hawaiian shall be the official languages of Hawaii, except that Hawaiian shall be required for public acts and transactions only as provided by law. [Add Const Con 1978 and election Nov 7, 1978]" (italic added for emphasis)

1. As correctly noted above by Bugmuncher, there is NO SUCH THING as "Hawaiian English" in "The Constitution of the State of Hawaii". It is "English", NOT "Hawaiian English", that is an official language of the State of Hawaii. The stub/article makes a FALSE statement and misrepresents the law.

2. Hawaiian language is NEVER REQUIRED in any State of Hawaii activities UNLESS specifically "provided by law". There are NO STATE LAWS requiring the use of Hawaiian language. The stub/article makes another FALSE statement, and again misrepresents the law.

3. The mere optional use of a macron and an opening single quote (so-called `okina), by certain enthusiasts (zealots), does NOT create a "dialect" of English.

4. The claim that use of the two marks is preferred by the majority of Hawaii's people is the DELUSION of an "okina lunatic".

5. The stub/article uses the word "Standard" to describe "Hawaiian English". There is NO SUCH THING as "Standard Hawaiian English". Where are the alleged "standards"? Where are they published? Who has the authority to fabricate such "standards"?

6. The stub/article has NOT ONE reference, and NOT ONE citation. According to Wikipedia:Citing Sources, "any material that is challenged and has no source may be removed by any editor". According to Wikipedia:Verifiability, "The obligation to provide a reputable source lies with the editors wishing to keep the material, not on those seeking to remove it."

Agent X 09:11, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment. Okay, really, you could have just linked the talk page. However, from reading this, uh, diatribe, it seems to me like there's some POV pushing going on here. Anyway, let me throw out a few academic references that I skimmed, courtesy of JSTOR. Standard English and Student Bodies: Institutionalizing Race and Literacy in Hawai'i (Young, M., 2002; College English 64:4) addresses the way the pidgin and ASE have clashed up until now, with some specific information on the varying uses of it in the culture. There's also the ancient The English Dialect of Hawaii (Reinecke, J. E., & Tokimasa, A., 1934; American Speech 9:1) which does, however, seem to address the creole more specifically. English Patterns in Hawaii (Odo, C., 1970; American Speech 45:3/4) talks about Hawaiian English specifically. Just by looking at JSTOR's results, it seems that what academic literature there is a bit old and may well be talking about Hawaii Creole English instead. Perhaps this article ought to be redirected there instead of deleted? — Preceding unsigned comment added by FreelanceWizard (talk • contribs) on 10:09, August 6, 2006. It's in the history, guy, you could have looked it up any time.
    • The above comment is unsigned, so it's not clear who to address. Anyway, pointing out that certain statements in an encyclopedia article are false is a community service, not "POV pushing". Note that the article/stub clearly attempts to distinguish "Hawaiian English" from "Hawaiian Pidgin". So the suggestion to redirect to "Hawaii Creole English" does not fly. Agent X 11:55, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete unless completely rewritten before the AFD is over. Hawaiian English exists, of course, but it is not a written standard distinct from American English, as the article implies. Hawaiian English is the variety of American English spoken in Hawaii; to some extent it overlaps with acrolectal Hawaiian Creole English. I'm sure plenty can be said about how the Hawaiian accent differs from General American and what the lexical differences are, provided reliable sources are cited. If the article is rewritten based on those sources, I'll change my vote. But the current version of the article is rubbish and should be deleted. User:Angr 10:17, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect to Hawaiian Pidgin if no proof can be presented that "Hawaiian English" is clearly distinct from standard American English. There are surely some minor dialectical difference but no more than you'd find, in say, New Jersey or South Florida. It seems that the pidgin is the only distinct language cited in the sources on JSTOR. If not redirect, then Delete. Andrew Levine 16:21, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • The 7 journal articles and 3 books in the Further Reading section of the article are not convincing? As for "no more different than New Jersey or South Florida", did you not see New York–New Jersey English and Southern American English linked to at the bottom of the article? If Hawaiian English is, as you say, akin to them, then the logical decision is "keep". You appear to have skipped over at least two thirds of the article. Uncle G 17:49, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      • I did check some of the journal articles and they seemed to indicate that there are no major differences between the article's subject and standard American English. I removed several of the references because it was clear from reading them that they had nothing to do with the subject of this article and were rather about Hawaiian Creole or Pidgin. I will see if I can check the rest later. Andrew Levine 18:50, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Oceania-related deletions. -- Capitalistroadster 21:37, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete unless completely rewritten before the AFD is over. Does the user who nominated for deletion get to vote? If not, ignore my vote. Otherwise, I second the comments of user Angr. The existing main text, which has been around for about 2 years now, is factually incorrect. When the clearly false statements are removed, there's next to nothing left.

    I have lived in Hawaii for about 50 years. Do any of you find my writing to constitute a "standard dialect" of "Hawaiian English"? If I had not told you that I've lived in Hawaii for 50 years, would you have known, from my written English, that I have?

    Hawaii is very diverse linguistically. Diversity wreaks havoc on "standardness". Our statewide community is one of the most racially mixed, economically mixed, socially mixed, educationally mixed, and linguistically mixed, in the USA. We have over 800,000 short-term visitors (tourists) per year, nearly equalling our total population. A significant portion of our residents are military personnel and families who move on to their next assignment after a few years here. We have significant continuous immigration from around the world, and many locally born-and-raised people move away as adults because the median cost for a house is over $600,000 and most of us can't afford that. In such a dynamic, transient, and diverse population, you don't get a "standard" dialect of anything. If you search long enough, you might be able to find books that make almost any claims that you want to "verify". But just because something got published, that doesn't guarantee that it's claims are true. Anyway, if one of you people who want to keep the "Hawaiian English" article manages to write up an intelligent piece that does not make clearly false claims, that will be okay with me. But the current "rubbish", as Angr correctly described it, must be DELETED. Agent X 11:55, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Do any of you find my writing to constitute a "standard dialect" of "Hawaiian English"? I find your writing indicates that you're unclear of the meaning of "dialect", if nothing else. --Calton | Talk 12:53, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • I find your writing indicates that you fail to read with comprehension, and you fail to read the relevant parts of the discussion, such as the article nominated for deletion and its talk page. You should read what I wrote about ee cummings, as well as my reply to your ignorant comments below. Agent X 15:05, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Except that would be wrong. See below. --Calton | Talk 12:49, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • I cannot make heads or tails of the information in the first paragraph of this article. If you'd like to rewrite it using whatever sources you have, I'd be happy to reconsider, but as it stands that one is particularly bad. If I understand what it's trying to say, it's just wrong, but as you say otherwise, perhaps I'm just misreading it. I take less umbrage with the second paragraph but I honestly think one would do better to start from scratch than to attempt to use this as a base. The redirect isn't the perfect use of this name but, in my opinion, it's more useful than what it currently houses. GassyGuy 06:51, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep based on the legal recognition LactoseTI 02:13, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • To LactoseTI --- WHAT "legal recognition"????? I challenge you to cite and quote ANY LAW that recognizes HAWAIIAN ENGLISH. There's no such law. Put up or shut up. Agent X 14:26, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. I'm not sure what the nominator's problem is, but a quick look at my Oxford Companion to the English Language (1992, edited by Tom McArthur) says this is completely 100% valid, whatever weird tangents about law he goes off on. Half-page entry on ppg 463-4, covering distinctive features, vocabulary, local usage (like giving directions: "Go ewa one block, turn makai at the traffic light, go two blocks Diamond Head, and you'll find the place on the mauka side of the street"). And before you ask, there are separate entries for "Hawaii", "Hawaiian", "Hawaii Creole English", AND "Hawaii Pidgin English", so no, they're no confusing "Hawaiian English" with anything else. And the nom's ranting about the okina is contradicted by the "Hawaiian" article, where it describes the glottal stop "where some have /k/, marked in technical writing by a reverse inverted apostrophe (’) and in general usage by an ordinary apostrophe (') (mu’umu’u or mu'umu'u for mukumuku, a loose-fitting woman's dress)..." As for pronunciation, anecdotally, I have no doubt it's true, going by the word of my sister who lives in Hawaii. --Calton | Talk 12:49, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • To Calton --- You call The Constitution of the State of Hawaii a "weird tangent". It's quoted above. You should try reading the discussion, with comprehension, before opening your mouth. You should also read the article nominated for deletion. As you can see, if you actually read the relevant discussion above, I seconded the comments of Angr, who pointed out that a dialect is spoken language, as opposed to written. It is the writer of the Hawaiian English article, not me, who has claimed that the use of okinas in WRITING has created a dialect of American English. In asking if anyone finds my writing to constitute a "standard dialect" of "Hawaiian English", I am pointing out that nobody can. Apparently that was "over your head". As for your comment about glottal stops, you are demonstrating profound ignorance. The stuff you quoted relates to Hawaiian, NOT to Hawaiian English. In the historical development of the Hawaiian phonemes, Proto Polynesian *k is reflected as Hawaiian /ʔ/. Diachronic sound changes do not take place instantly throughout the lexicon, some words are like stragglers, and some simply resist a sound change even though the change affects nearly every other word in the language. That's why there are some variant forms, like mukumuku and mu`umu`u. The older form has k, the newer form has glottal stop. But again, your quote is totally irrelevant to Hawaiian English, and it demonstrates that you don't know what you're talking about. If you are interested in Hawaiian phonology, check out my contributions to the Hawaiian language and Hawaiian phonology pages. When I first contributed to the Hawaiian language page, before having a user account, I put in a citation. It was the first and only citation in the article. Every single citation that's in the article now was put in by me. As for the use of directional expressions, like "mauka" or "makai", it's not something that everyone has to use. I've been speaking English in Hawaii for about 50 years, and I don't use "mauka" or "makai". Some people do. But the usage of "some people" does not make it "standard" for all speakers. When I speak Hawaiian (not "Hawaiian English"), which I speak fluently, then I use ma uka and ma kai, or i uka and i kai, or ā uka and ā kai, as appropriate in a given context. But I don't use those expressions when I speak English, which is my first language. The mere usage of four directional expressions, by a subset of people (who are probably trying too hard to show that they are "local"), is not very significant, and is not enough to justify an encyclopedia article on a "dialect". A dialect is characterized by speech behavior which is automatic and generally beyond the conscious control of the speaker, as opposed to optional, conscious selections of lexical items and expressions. Agent X 14:17, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • You call The Constitution of the State of Hawaii a "weird tangent". Yes. Completely irrelevant to the topic at hand, no matter how much you scream, shout, and jump up and down. What the Constitution of the State of Hawaii -- or the constitution of any state -- has to to do with the recognition of a dialect is, well, nothing whatsoever.
  • Every single citation that's in the article now was put in by me. Some advice: if you're going to write something untrue, try not to do so with things that are easily checked. Makes it easy to catch you, don't you know.
  • A dialect is characterized by speech behavior which is automatic... You have a source for this definition, other than your nether regions? And how, exactly, does it apply here? --Calton | Talk 00:34, 14 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect to Hawaiian Pidgin, as the sources seem not to confirm any of the statements. It's a plausible redirect, though. — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 21:52, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Maybe a disambiguation page can help. The 3 expressions "Hawaiian Pidgin (English)", "Hawaiian Creole English", and "Hawaiian English", can be easily confused by people who have not previously considered technical linguistic terminology such as "pidgin" (not originally a first language for anyone), versus "creole" (a pidgin which has become a first language for at least some people), versus a U.S.-State-reckoned geographical variety of English ("Hawaii English", "Oregon English", "Arizona English", etc.). I would not be surprised if some publications have used the phrase "Hawaiian English" to mean the same thing as "Hawaiian Creole English" or "Hawaiian Pidgin", rather than to mean "the first-language English of people raised in the U.S. State of Hawaii, which is not creole (nor pidgin)". Perhaps there could be an article titled something like "English in Hawaii". Such an article could point out the simultaneous co-existence of many different Englishes in Hawaii, along with many other languages, and discuss the influences of those languages on "Englishes spoken in Hawaii". Since Hawaii has tourists from all 50 U.S. states, off-and-on all year long, every year, every different State-reckoned English is constantly being spoken in Hawaii. We also have Japanese-accented English, Filipino-accented English, Thai-accented English, etc., etc. However, supporting published sources may be lacking for such an article. Perhaps the only one of the different "Englishes of Hawaii" that has enough published discussion to support an encyclopedia article is the pidgin/creole. If redirect means that the current "Hawaiian English" stub/article will be eliminated, then that's okay with me. Agent X 15:05, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 11:09, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Antoinette Nora Claypoole

Not Notable, also WP:AUTO. A freelance journalist with a fairly obscure book, a completely obscure novel, and poetry and prose appearing in various odd places. She wrote the article herself. --Brianyoumans 08:34, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete. Only one of her books (Who Would Unbraid Her Hair) shows up on amazon.com; it has a sales rank of 1,705,242 and is published by a quite obscure publisher (not found on Google). It appears to fail WP:BOOK (which I don't entirely agree with, but... there you go). The book is, however, on a subject currently considered notable (Anna Mae Aquash). On the other hand, the article is an autobiography, and she herself appears to fail WP:BIO. She's an interesting subject, but sadly, unencyclopedic. --FreelanceWizard 08:59, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neutral. I suppose blogspot.com links aren't very notable or suitable for a Wikipedia article, and a jounralist/author would generally have a little more definite content to it but the article seems genuine enough. I would err toward neutral as I don't quite like the general feel of the article but aren't in favour of keeping it either. --Draicone (talk) 09:15, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • "DELETE"Absolutely a "must" for deletion, under the this policy: "Articles whose deletion should be uncontroversial but which don't meet the "utter rubbish" criteria for speedy deletion. This is often used for articles which appear to have genuine content but which the deleter feels are not suitable content for Wikipedia, such as advertising, vanity articles, and the like." Claypoole, across the web, has amply demonstrated that this entry falls into the "advertising" and "vanity" category. She is an entirely self-promoted "writer" of dubious talent and integrity. Long a thorn in the side of Indian Country, she persists in presenting herself as an expert on complex Native American issues and then waxing mystical about life and death issues. She has savaged the tragedy of the death of Anna Mae Aquash, even in the title of her self-financed (other than that paid for by Jordan Dill, another self-promoter) book _Who Would Unbraid Her Hair_. Claypoole, who is not Indian, apparently channels the occult notion that Aquash's hands were cut off so that her spirit could not have rest, as then her warrior braid couldn't be properly dealt with. In reality, the hands were cut off for another reason--not that you'll find facts in her writings. She is simply another Indian hanger-on with dubious credentials, mostly drummed up by her own self-promotion. Now she's into using her publicity to create customers for writers' retreats. **If you'd like to learn about her, visit the Google Groups alt.native Just a quick Google search turned up enough Claypoole blogs and various websites to support the contention of this article being "advertising" and "vanity."

==***Here is an alt.native post from Claypoole herself acknowledging that her book was published by Jordan Dill, a website operator: "From antoinette - Date: Sat, Dec 16 2000 5:14 am .... as some of you know, the work i wrote which was published by jordan s. dill, WHO WOULD UNBRAID HER HAIR, the legend of annie mae, ... " Other than her backer Jordan Dill's website, all of Claypoole's promotions appear on her own blogs and websites. Wikipedia doesn't need to be one of them.--Ardith010 09:48, 6 August 2006 (UTC)Ardith010[reply]

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The result was redirect to Athlon 64. --Sam Blanning(talk) 14:17, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

AMD Athlon FX-60

advertisment of AMD Athlon 64 FX-60 CPU AMD64 08:37, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sango123 00:34, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Adrenalyn

Not notable. I show only the Wikipedia article on Google when searching for Adrenalyn. Also the Canyon Pro Wrestling that is referenced in the article shows up only twice on google...once as wikipedia article Adrenalyn and once in a copy of the same article. rhmoore 08:58, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sango123 00:34, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

John Marble

Not Notable. Google shows the National Stonewall Democrats webpage as the only one relevant to this person. rhmoore 09:12, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep, merge tag added. --Sam Blanning(talk) 14:19, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Serials Solutions

This is a very curious article. Google is unhelpful because it counts as unique a vast number of different links on the company's own website. ProQuest is significant, but I am not sure that individual ProQuest acquisitions / business units are. Just zis Guy you know? 09:14, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sango123 00:34, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Second-Hand Originals

Not Notable. Google returns only 9 hits, which include Wikipedia and MySpace. rhmoore 09:17, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 11:08, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sylorn

Seems to be a commercial Advert. Google has only 10 hits, one is the company itself, two are Wikipedia, and the rest are from forums. rhmoore 09:29, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well it's not. It's my page. It's hardly a company, either, it's a free game. And it's in development. I'm sorry if it sounds like an advert, I can see to it that I edit it around to remove anything that tries to.. advertise and make it a little more formal. It's very hard to do this, though, when the game isn't done, and you're just looking for forum members.

Commercial Advert? No. It doesn't make money so it's not commercial and it's not an advert. I can't find many other ways to word an unfinished game. Lassaris 09:05, 6 August 2006 (GMT+10)

  • Delete, MMORPG that's not even in beta stage yet. NawlinWiki 12:15, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Not even in beta stage yet? We haven't even reached alpha. With all due respect to the game & site's founder, I doubt it will be notable enough to be included on Wikipedia even after the game is finished. With that said, I wish him and his development team the best of luck. -- Kicking222 23:55, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The reason this game in particular is notable is because the developers are trying to keep away from many of the things that have been done in other MMORPGs... If this particular page is an advert, please edit as much as you want to draw it away from that, we are simply stating the facts... If this is deleted, why not delete the World of Warcraft entry? This was intended to be similar to that... Thellis 12:10, 7 August 2006 (GMT+10)

This game will be great as the team are fansastic to work with and we have members from all over the globe. Every thing has to start someware and suggestions on how to improve are better than deletion as we are 100% dedicated to making this happen. Yes at the mo we are bulding the game from using the forum as we want input from players and to expand our current vision to the best of the best and we are only in the first stages of work. We have lots of stuff in development from paper based design to be modled to in depth storys for quests. Why delete some thing that isnt finished?? Kainin 12:31, 10 August 2006 (GMT+0)

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The result was delete, no claim to significance whatsoever.--SB | T 08:32, 19 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The TY Revolution

This is a non-notable fansite for Ty the Tasmanian Tiger. Was prodded by me, but deprodded, so I'm bringing it here. The argument for inclusion on the talk page is that BZPower, a Bionicle fansite with over 30,000 users, is included, so this site, with 135 users, should also be included. The site itself is hosted by freewebs, a sure sign of non-notability. Incidently, the main Ty article isn't very good - the effort put into this article should be directed there. Nydas 09:29, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom, plus the fact that Google has only 800-odd results for "ty revolution", and no pages linking to it. I'd probably even consider voting delete on that Bionicle site, should it come to it, and it at least has some significant Google results (but a really poor Alexa result). Confusing Manifestation 12:41, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I tried re-directing it to Ty the Tasmanian Tiger but nothing happens, could someone fix that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pokemega32 (talk • contribs)

  • Delete First of all, I reverted the redirect back to the article, including the AfD tag. Not just should the article be deleted, but it should not be a redirect. The site is not nearly popular enough for it to have any presence on WP. It completely fails WP:WEB. In addition, it should not be a redirect, as that 1) implies that the site is somehow significant, and 2) implies that anyone would search that term (which is highly doubtful). -- Kicking222 00:00, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Against Deletion True, TYR may be small in its present state, however it is growing at an incredible pace and we are also the only TY site to have recent information on the upcoming TY games (plus information on the recently cancelled TY: Gunyip! ), plus some very detailed articles for the two recent TY games (TY1's page is being revamped). Krome Studios, the developers of TY, also visit the site regularly and post exclusive information about the games in development. TYR is also the biggest active TY The Tasmanian Tiger fansite/community on the web right now, and getting bigger every day. By this time next year we fully expect to have over 1,000 members. TYR is becoming extremely popular in small corners of the net, and it can only spread from there. TYR's still on FreeWebs, yes, you have us there. However, we intend to buy a server within a year and move the contents of the site there, thus taking the site off of FreeWebs and making TYR a "true" independent site.ToyoWolf 06:25, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment Please see WP:NOT, specifically Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. You (and I mean the general "you", not "you", ToyoWolf, in particular) cannot attempt to assert notability by saying "This could be popular one day," or "She could get famous if...," or, in your case, "We fully expect to have over 1,000 members" and "We intend to buy a server within a year." Also, please look at WP:WEB for criteria for inclusion in Wikipedia concerning web sites. -- Kicking222 21:39, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Against Deletion It just needs time to grow. Just read what Toyo said. But what I'd like to ask is why you even care? It's a small article, I don't think it should take up very much disk space. Does every byte count or is rule enforcement at top priority here? Oh, and Kotzu, one of the mods there, has something to say about this.

"Oh my God that is one arrogant and stupid person. The only reason he wants to delete it is because he thinks his Halo and holy Grand Theft Autos are so much better and that you're a n00b for liking Ty(He blatantly leads me to believe that).

Here's a thought, Kicking222. Maybe some people aren't old enough to enjoy your blood and gore splattered games that you also lead me to believe you play. Ty is the perfect game for kids 6-11. Or maybe some people actually appreciate the effort, innovation, and fun in a Ty the Tasmanian Tiger title(me). Maybe if you stopped listening to your dieties such as IGN and actually approached games with an open mind, we wouldn't have this problem.

The only reason he's against it is because he doesn't like Ty. Plain, and simple. Because I'm pretty sure that if it was the biggest Halo forum on the net, or the biggest Half-Life forum on the net we were talking about, he wouldn't have a problem with it. He said this site was insignificant, and that no one would search for Ty the Tasmanian Tiger. Bullshit. The members of the freaking DEVELOPMENT team go here. Do you hear me, kicking222? THE MEMBERS OF KROME STUDIOS POST HERE, GIVING THE SITE A HIGHER SIGNIFICANCE THAN MOST FAN FORUMS. Jeez." A direct quote of his post. - Superkid11, mod of TYR.

  • Comment I'm simply going to respond in order of what you stated. 1) I couldn't care less about the "disk space"- I doubt Wikipedia could hold an infinite number of articles, but it could certainly hold a lot. The concern is notability; in building an encyclopedia, we (meaning you, me, and everyone on WP) must have some standards. If every web site had its own Wikipedia article, then, obviously, WP would be larger than the entirety of the rest of the Web. 2) I'm not sure how WP's rules on not making personal attacks applies to quoting other people, but I still don't appreciate it. I'm not attacking you for your views, and I should not be attacked for mine; our views are equally valid. For the record, I do adore Halo and GTA; I also love the Ratchet & Clank games, the Tony Hawk games, the NBA Street games, the Dance Dance Revolution games, and games in pretty much every genre (besides RPGs and strategy games). I have absolutely nothing against the Ty series's games; as I have never played them, I cannot judge their quality. However, you can be sure that if a GTA fansite's article was up for deletion, I would argue for its deletion unless it could be proven that the site was particularly significant. 3) In addition, size of a web forum matters, and I'm sure the largest Halo or Half-Life forum is many dozens (if not hundreds) times larger than this Ty forum. I understand that staff members on the Ty team posts on your forums, but I know of (for example) more than a few GTA fansites that have direct correspondence with Rockstar (in fact, the pamphlet/booklet/whatever you want to call it for all of the PS2 GTA games have "Thank yous" for half a dozen or so sites), and none of them have articles. -- Kicking222 21:39, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Look, I'm a mod on the site and I seriously think the site doesn't need a page. If it becomes big enough, we might get one. But for now, there's realy no point.... Kotzu really shouldn't have said all that stuff, and SK shouldn't have posted it here. -- Pokemega32 02:47, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

 AFD relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
 Please add new discussions below this notice. Thanks, Mailer Diablo 23:45, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What does "Not a Crystal Ball" have anything to do with it? Pokemega32 21:40, 14 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As it happens, "Wikipedia is not a crystal ball" is one of the official policy tenets of Wikipedia. I strongly urge you to familiarize yourself with WP:NOT before weighing in on AfD discussions. RGTraynor 04:16, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I know what "Wikipedia Is not a Crystal Ball" means, but it has nothing to do with this topic!!! This isn't about future events! Pokemega32 17:13, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • A recommendation to keep states above: YR may be small in its present state, however it is growing at an incredible pace... and getting bigger every day... this time next year we fully expect to have over 1,000 members... and it can only spread from there... we intend to buy a server within a year and move the contents of the site there'. I was citing these claims to notability when noting that Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. Sorry for the confusion. --Kinu t/c 05:53, 16 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was Merge to Vulcan (Star Trek). Shell babelfish 08:35, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Shi'Kahr

This page is for a fictional city which was never seen, only talked about twice. It is not even remotely notable enough to have a page of its own. Philip Stevens 09:41, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

 AFD relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
 Please add new discussions below this notice. Thanks, Mailer Diablo 23:44, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was no consensus, default to keep. - Bobet 12:54, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Overlinking

First, please see the original VfD from 2004. That closed as no consensus, largely because of repeated claims that "This is not an article. It is an unfinished scrap of writing. It is on a legitimate topic, but has not been written yet." In short, two years ago, there was a claim that this was not just a piece of wikimeta and that it would grow into an article that would meet Wikipedia's expectations.

It hasn't done that. It it uncited. It sets arbitrary characterizations and "rule[s] of thumb" that fail WP:NPOV at best. And, two years later, it is still entirely self-referential. Furthermore, there are no links to this entry from the mainspace. It is being referenced entirely from talk and userpages as a surrogate for WP:CONTEXT. Serpent's Choice 09:34, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'd be happy to consider the term notable once the concept of binge-linking becomes widely discussed, and Overlinkers Anonymous is formed... :) - David Oberst 13:35, 14 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong keep: The article needs to be developed more. Overlinking is a serious problem at times, when certain editors with obsessive tendencies ruin good articles using this practice. An article should only contain relevant hyperlinks. There is no good reason for deleting the article. If someone doesn't like it, they can ignore it. It may be important for others who don't have obsessive compulsive tendencies. -- Fyslee 21:36, 14 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Sango123 00:35, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Specialities of France

Basically a list without the name, suffers from typical list issues. Minimal to no criteria for inclusion, no independant verification, no cited secondary sources for most of the page's content. Note on page strongly suggests this is original research. Serpent's Choice 09:51, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As something to note, that already exists. The main Appellation d'Origine Contrôlée article includes links to three lists, for wines, liqueurs, and most germane to this AfD, cheeses granted AOC status. So, in addition to my previous objections, the article under discussion is redundant. Serpent's Choice 19:18, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment As per formulated title, this list should include not only products with AOC, such as cheese and wines, but also local specialties such as Castelnaudary Cassoult, piment d'Espelette, Perigord foie gras and confit... it needs not be redundant at all --Svartalf 02:53, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The problem then goes back to the lack of verifiable criteria for inclusion. What standard needs to be set to determine if a product is a local specialty? And how local do these specialties need to be? Would a cheese qualify if its production was unique to a commune? To a département? To a région? And once we try to expand this to any sort of recipe, worse problems arise. Without verifiable listing requirements, this is an invitation for everyone with a French grandmother to grant "local specialty" status to their favorite family recipe. Of course, if some appropriately-documented criteria for inclusion can be found, that would assuage many of my concerns. Serpent's Choice 04:41, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was keep. Sango123 00:36, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Cynthia Neville

Deprodded without comment or improvement to address the concern raised in the prod. The article has been tagged for a month as being of questionable notability; indeed the guidelines at WP:PROF seem not to be met. Delete. User:Angr 10:00, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. --Sam Blanning(talk) 15:51, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hugi

There is no indication that this electronic publication is or was in any way notable. Requests to provide sources for this magazine's claim to notability were ignored. Sandstein 10:42, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Strong Keep The magazine caters to the "demoscene," by its nature a fairly insular community, and a community notable for other reasons than its numbers. An electronic zine pointed toward an audience that likes to create graphics programs in assembler code, that stays in publication for 10 years/32 issues is "notable" to me. Others may differ. Google hits for 'hugi diskmag' are about 15k, not huge, but, sampling a few of the hits, the publication seems to be well-regarded. Very nice website, too. Bustter 22:33, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as spam. (If a 'zine wants to be notable, why does it label itself as "underground"? You can't be both.) --Xrblsnggt 01:17, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Although the article does need improvement, I strongly disagree with the suggested unnotability of the publication. Hugi is an "underground diskmag", yes, because it concentrates around the demoscene, an "underground subculture", however, Hugi happens to be one of the most notable demoscene zines. For example, when sorting the diskmag issues indexed at pouet.net by "popularity", the top 20 list contains eight issues of Hugi. --Viznut 13:45, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment: Just to clarify, I didn't suggest it is not notable. I just said that the authors of the article don't (now) even assert, let alone provide any reliable source to indicate that it is notable. And I'm not convinced that the above hitcounter of one scene website meets WP:RS. Sandstein 15:25, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment See my suggestions for expansion on the Talk:Hugi page. I'm not voting yet, but if it's improved, I may vote keep. --Vossanova o< 20:30, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete unless expanded. (I'm not sure the demoscene is sufficiently notable that — even the best — magazine in that genre is necessarily notable for that reason alone.) — Arthur Rubin | (talk)
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The result was delete. Sango123 00:39, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ducklet DeskPhoto

Non-notable software product; 4 Google hits. --Haakon 10:44, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm new here (well, new to Wikipedia--not to the planet), so I didn't know all the rules. Common sense gave me some inkling of what the rules probably were, but I knew that wasn't enough so I did a fair amount of due diligence before posting the article in question. I read about posting policies, etc. for more than an hour before and during the writing of the post.

I learned many important rules and guidelines while doing this research, and ran across a number of examples that helped my education as well. Among them were:

  1. Stick to the facts. I tried to do that.
  2. I noticed there are many articles on software programs, so I gathered that an article about a software program was (at least in some cases) appropriate. From these I found the Infobox_Software template (and learned all about templates in the process, whee!).
  3. As hard as I tried to find guidelines on posting about specific types of content, I was unable to find anything specific to software projects. Thanks, Haakon, for using the wording "non-notable software project" in your nomination for deletion--that helped me find the proposed Wikipedia policy on Software Notability. The proposal seems reasonable so I won't dispute it here, even though it's only a proposal, not adopted. (Besides, this wouldn't be the place to dispute it anyway.)
  4. Be bold. I saw this recommendation many times. I like the spirit of this recommendation--pull lurkers out of the woodwork to have more people contributing. Nice.

It was in the spirit of be bold that I finally decided to go ahead and post my article even though I still wasn't sure if it was appropriate. If it wasn't, someone would point that out to me. (As you have done.)

Oh well. Live and learn. I said I would be honest: I will honestly admit that my goal was to do a bit of PR and generate interest in the software. I can also honestly state that I tried my best to do so in a professional manner and tried hard to follow all the rules of Wikipedia that I knew about, and even to follow the spirit of Wikipedia since, being so new, I couldn't possibly know all the rules. My attempt to follow the spirit shows, I hope, in the tone of the article (facts, not hyperbole or opinion) and in the similarity it bears to Wikipedia articles about other software programs.

By the way, I'm not sure how you got only 4 hits on Google, Haakon. Just a a factual point, when I search for ducklet deskphoto or +ducklet +deskphoto or "ducklet deskphoto" I get 16-17 hits. I'm not disputing that it's not notable--it's not like I get 13 million hits or anything--but it's also not 4. :-)

Thanks for reading all this.

President and Chief Executive Quacker, Ducklet BMorearty 05:26, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Thanks for the message (not at all long and boring) and I hope we haven't been too curt about your article. A lot of real rubbish appears on AfD and we're all volunteers without a lot of time, so sometimes articles get fairly short shrift. We appreciate the spirt in which you've taken the comments and look forward your next! Dlyons493 Talk 21:26, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was redirect. W.marsh 14:17, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

DeadSpawn

Not significant enough for an entry. While this band spawned (no pun intended) several others, it doesn't really comply with inclusion guidelines. BrianFG 10:57, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sango123 00:39, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

LMN Triangle

Google "LMN Triangle Miami" came up empty. Unsourced and possibly OR article reads like an attempt to bolster Miami's image by comparing it to LA and NYC. SwissCelt 11:18, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was DELETE., WP is not a crystal ball --Madchester 10:13, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Mission: Impossible IV

Rumours, indicate, has been said, considered? The MI films are successful and there will probably be another film but the same can be said about Scary Movie 5 and Final Destination 4 Pally01 11:37, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Sango123 00:40, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Space Dude

No evidence that this is a particularly notable DOS game, the developer FormGen is a redlink and no publisher is given. the wub "?!" 12:04, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sango123 00:42, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

105 North Tower

A detail from A Tale of Two Cities, which doesn't seem important enough either to have its own article or to be merged into the article on the book. NawlinWiki 12:10, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 08:08, 13 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sexual Freedom League

This bears all the hallmarks of vanispamcruftisdement. See how many times you find User:Sam Sloan's name in the article. Just zis Guy you know? 12:25, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Strong Delete as WP:VSCA. Thε Halo Θ 12:26, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speedy delete Article was started by banned user Amorrow using the sock pinktulip. [21]. Only one other editors (Sloan) has made significant content edits. FloNight talk 13:08, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Definately vanity, but I am not conveinced either way wether it is notable. Google doesn't bring up a huge amount of results, but that may not mean much. 13:50, 6 August 2006 (UTC) (apparently I forgot to sign this: so ViridaeTalk 06:45, 7 August 2006 (UTC))[reply]
  • Strong Keep I'm 57 years old, was somewhat involved in counter-culture movements (like everybody else was) in 1966 forward, and the Sexual Freedom League was pretty well-known 'back in the day.' I found the article as it is enlightening, no doubt it could be improved. Margo St. James was also known as "the Realist nun," something to do with a prank performed with the assistance of The Realist's editor Paul Krassner. The SFL may indeed have existed on the "fringe" of notability, but in the mid-sixties many things later subsumed to the mainstream -- all of the 'counter-culture' that came into its own by 1970 -- was 'non-notable.' SFL did, if my memory may be trusted, score frequent mention in Krassner's (now) well-respected publication (I was an avid reader). 40 years after its peak, 500+ hits in Google does not seem shabby. Lack of contributors is easily explained -- many lifetyle casualties in that era. Records like this are rare and historically valuable, though difficult to source. Sam Sloan lived in a time of historical nexus, characterized by conflicts of old and new, something similar was portrayed in Milos Forman's The People vs. Larry Flynt. I don't think the occurence of his name is a problem. Bustter 18:39, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • addendum- Morgan Wick: Not a sock, and will provide my address and phone if you like. Sloan and SLF founder J. Poland did put out a book, referenced in the article, its out of print. Calton - Archives of the SLF are curated here: [[22]] To everyone interested, its funny how much of the fringe culture stuff just slips away from us. "The Realist Nun" was a well-known prank of its time, in my circle, anyway -- zero hits in Google, but Google groups offers three hits, ranging from 1995 to one a couple of weeks ago. Bustter 10:50, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per Bustter - Paulus89 20:52, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neutral. Keep, per emerging consensus. Lack of G-hits is my main concern, and I still have some doubt as to whether Bustter and/or Sam Sloan may be socks, but am still assuming good faith for now. If it's as notable as Bustter claims, it may warrant an article, but how much content can it retain while remaining verifiable? Maybe Sam Sloan or others could write a book about this and others like it that can then be cited as a source in an NPOV article. Could someone track down "Krassner's (now) well-respected publication"? Morgan Wick 02:00, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment The Realist is a recently-created stub, but its editor-publisher Paul Krassner has been wiki'ed since 2003, there's more info about The Realist there. Though the last issue was in 2001, Krassner stopped putting it out regularly in 1967, when he discovered LSD. Or you can try contacting Krassner through his [website], where you can also read about Robert Anton Wilson's recent trip to his deathbed (and back). Better hurry, because Wilson's Ebay auction is limited to 3 days. Bustter 07:53, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Tentative keep. At first reading, all the references seem genuine and plausible, even the obvious mistakes ("Sproul Hall" being the name of UC Berkeley's administrative building and an often-used campus shorthand for campus administrators). A fair number of hits in Google Books [23] and Google Scholar [24]. And WorldCat confirms the book reference The Records of the San Francisco Sexual Freedom League [25]: there's even a copy at the Bodleian Library in Oxford [26]. Verification or actual notability may or may not be a problem, but the group existed. --Calton | Talk 02:46, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep as verified by Calton. A search by me came up with a reference in the Nation dating from 1967. It was a shortlived organisation but was of some significance in the 1960s US counterculture. Capitalistroadster 02:54, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep a little bit of searching around proves enough evidence [27] for me that it exists, and even seems worthy of an article. Any minor slight doubts I might have are wiped away by simply assuming a little bit of good faith as everybody should do. Mathmo 13:42, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep and improve. It is obviously not suitable as is but this is way premature for deciding to delete. The solution is normal wikipedia editing. Over time, I believe it will become usefu, encyclopedic material. I am dismayed at all the effort to delete that could be going into incremental improvements. If everyone here just improved one thing about the article, that would be so much better than all this casual thumbs up vs. thumbs down stuff. WAS 4.250 03:52, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 17:45, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

PPStream

This article contains no proofs of compliance with WP:WEB, delete. MaxSem 12:52, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sango123 00:43, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Blend corp

Apparent advertisement; would prod, but editor's recent history indicates it would probably be removed on sight. Term gets only 604 Ghits [28] and 0 hits at Gnews [29]. Does not appear to pass WP:CORP and/or WP:ORG, whichever is more relevant. Luna Santin 13:32, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sango123 00:43, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Allen Maze

WP:HOAX :unsourced article; no unique hits for Google on "Allen Maze", "Allen Kerosene", "Maze Kerosene", no hits on Sony website for "Allen Maze"; WP:MUSIC for non-notable artist Ohconfucius 13:55, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sango123 00:44, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Islamic and Jewish Extremism and the Arab-Israeli Conflict

Offers little and what there is in the article is covered in more detail in other articles Nuttah68 14:17, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 13:36, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Cleveland Park Citizens Association

This is a non-notable organizatio (fails the proposed Wikipedia:Notability (organizations)) with no verifiable sources cited other than its own website. Erechtheus 14:24, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sango123 00:44, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

List of members of the British Labour Party

Seems utterly pointless given the existence of categories. kingboyk 14:27, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was No consensus. Shell babelfish 08:30, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Rory Atwell

Non-notable per WP:MUSIC. -Nv8200p talk 14:43, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

maintain delete or urgent rewrite The article is unsourced and its style contravenes WP:NPOV Ohconfucius 03:42, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was DELETE. fails WP:WEB, site was made in retaliation to WP rmv wikiality references. --Madchester 10:15, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wikiality.com

See also Talk:Wikiality and Wikireality (AfD discussion)

Vanispamcolbertcruftisement for non-notable web site, no claim per WP:WEB, google finds no incoming links, no Alexa rank, no verifiable reliable sources cited. Deprodded. Weregerbil 14:45, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sango123 00:45, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome to Belgium

Appears to be a review of a book by someone named "Charif". Is probably a copyvio (though google doesn't find the text), and also probably vanity (poster is User:Charif), and is most definitely a review, rather than an encyclopedic article. Staecker 14:51, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sango123 00:45, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hector preston

WP:BIO Subject not notable. Sixth-former at King Edward Grammar school, 30 Google hits, of which aboout 3 unique, but all related to the school. Anthony Tuckwell, author of the cited source appears to have been headmaster of the school Ohconfucius 14:53, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Tupac Shakur. Mangojuicetalk 15:27, 14 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Euphanasia

This non-notable company (fails WP:CORP) article appears to exist simply to rehash the details of its founder's death. The contents are represented acceptably in his biography. Erechtheus 14:55, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Note: It should be kept and added to because it was a company started by a big figure and there could be more to add on. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by License2Kill (talk • contribs) .

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The result was delete. Sango123 00:46, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fasterlouder.com.au

Fails WP:WEB, no evidence of notability. Alexa rank of 274,713. Jacek Kendysz 15:28, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 15:11, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ravager Affinity

See precedents at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/U/G Madness and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sligh. Andrew Levine 15:56, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete Andrew Levine 15:56, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • As the main contributor to this article, I must say that deleting this article is a decree that no Magic deck is significant enough to receive it's own page. From a scholarly point of view, there is IMO no deck that is more influential than Ravager Affinity in the game's history. The deck dominated tournaments in multiple formats, was at the forefront of the community for years, and caused unprecendented actions by the game's creators. I have tried my best to make this article encyclopedic. It has wiki code, the text I wrote is as clear as I can make it, and it cites references. It has no decklist, mulligan rules, game scenarios, play tips, sideboarding strategy, or metagame concerns. For contrast, here is an evolvutionary history of Ravager Affinity which is encyclopedic in nature and here is an example of a "strategy guide", what we in the community normally call primers, deck clinics, or in this case a tournament report, which are not encyclopedic. As a compromise, specific decks could be defined on their own list page or on their specific their archetype page. I have developed a decklist template but I have refrained from using it since it appears that Magic decklists are not encyclopedic but rigorous strategy detailing Two Knights Defense is. I could nominate Latvian Gambit for AFD for the same reasons here but it would probably be shot down, that and my stance on AFD is extremely lax for an Internet-based encyclopedia. NorrYtt 17:13, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • "I must say that deleting this article is a decree that no Magic deck is significant enough to receive it's own page." Yes, this sounds about right. Please don't try to make comparisons between MTG and chess in terms of notability and significance. Magic has been around for 13 years and chess for more than a thousand (in its current form, about 500). Chess is played and/or recognized by many more people (by orders of magnitude) in many more countries than Magic. I won't even get into tournament attendance and prize payout figures. You bring up the example of the Two Knights Defense, which has existed for more than four hundred years and studied by every chess player above the beginner level for centuries; do you honestly think it's worth comparing its importance and notability to a Magic deck that did not exist three years ago? And please know that I say this as someone who has enjoyed Magic immensely for more than a decade, and who hasn't touched a chess piece in almost as long. Andrew Levine 17:36, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • I will simply leave it that I am willing to keep most any article as long as its in the right place and could benefit someone. I feel more content is better than less (i.e. more professional). I feel if someone wants to know how to get all the Warp Whistles in Super Mario 3, they could find it tucked away somewhere. In the future, I will try not to waste so much of my time contributing to the AFD category. NorrYtt 17:53, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. Sango123 00:46, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Brooke Thompson

This person does not meet the notability criteria in WP:BIO Rangek 15:56, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sango123 00:46, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Forensic epistemology

A google search turns up very little on "forensic epistemology" other than WP mirror sites. The concept was apparently introduced in an unpublished doctoral thesis. The references provided do not substantially relate to the topic. Citation of peer-reviewed publications which discuss forensic epistemology would probably be sufficient to establish notability. Nesbit 16:16, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect. Sango123 00:47, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Verbal Fridge Dialogue

This same information appears on the V.F.D. Codes page. Its redundant and this article will never amount to more than a stub Clamster5 16:47, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sango123 00:49, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

TRL Video Stats for Kelly Clarkson

TRL statistics aren't notable outside of discussion of singles' music videos (which should be on the song articles), and Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of info. Extraordinary Machine 17:02, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sango123 00:50, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fan Films Quarterly

Blatant advertising page for self-published/print-on-demand fan magazine. No credible assertations on notability in the article. Google search on "Fan Films Quarterly" brings back 120 returns, only 28 unique. Article creator Nobleverse appears to be the publisher David Noble. Previously listed for speedy deletion, tag removed by Nobleverse. Delete MikeWazowski 14:19, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • The intention was not to be a puff piece, but rather a method to catalog the growing number of fan films online. --Nobleverse 22:11, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
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  • Delete - While some of these fan films may be notable, this magazine does not seem to be. --cholmes75 (chit chat) 20:49, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete WP already has an article on fan films and is not a directory (and is certainly not an advert for a magazine posing as a directory). Yomangani 22:55, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't believe that the magazine poses as a directory, but rather a source for current information on fan film projects. It is just a matter that, within Wikipedia, there is no more thorough listing of fan films under this forum. The closest may have 25-40, but we are surpassing 200 fan films listed, and are prepared to add another 70 in the near future. In addition to discussing over 200 fan films in its' publication history, the magazine also talks about related issues, to include financial distress, legal ramifications, potential future projects, and other real issues that fan film companies have faced.

I would also like to point out that, in Issue #3, we covered KISS and the potential for a fan film based on the 100+ tribute bands across the world. I think cholmes75 would have liked the article. Thanks, User: Nobleverse 12:11, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus to delete, but a merge/redirect to the company article is possible without afd, if anyone ever writes an article on the company. W.marsh 14:15, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bobby Hashemi

Non-notable per WP:BIO -Bogsat 17:21, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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 Please add new discussions below this notice. Thanks, Mailer Diablo 23:42, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of UK-related deletions. -- the wub "?!" 14:16, 13 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep per Catchpole and Cholmes75. 1ne 05:32, 17 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Although I certainly may look foolish as a minority of one, I must respectfully disagree with my fellow editors above and retain my "Delete" opinion. First of all, I do not believe that the single reference to Franchise Magazine, a non-notable publication itself, satisfies the WP:V requirement that "Articles should rely on credible, third-party sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy." Second, since the subject's only claim to notability is the founding of Coffee Republic, itself a non-notable company, I still do not believe the article passes the requirements of WP:BIO. I realize that this is all probably moot at this point, but I just wanted to clarify my position. Thanks. --Satori Son 17:06, 17 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was REDIRECT to Canadian Idol --Madchester 10:02, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

List of songs performed on Canadian Idol

This article seems to violate Wikipedia:No original research and Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not#Wikipedia is not a directory. The article has a shot introduction, then is just a list. It may be better served if merged into the Canadian Idol article, or the articles on the individual performers, if they are worthy of inclusion in the Wikipedia. Displaced Brit 17:32, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. This is probably something that fell off a previous day's AfD log, but strong enough claims of notability have been mentioned that a clear consensus to keep has emerged, therefore I see no point in letting this AfD continue 5 more days - it started at the beginning of this month and hasn't ended yet?! Awyong Jeffrey Mordecai Salleh 13:00, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Kevin Keathley

Non-notable, poorly written. JyriL talk 17:34, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Note I've been bold and moved him to Kevin Keathley (from Kevin keathley). Yomanganitalk 09:42, 17 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
 AFD relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
 Please add new discussions below this notice. Thanks, Mailer Diablo 23:42, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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The result was delete. - Mailer Diablo 02:39, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Off Topic Forum

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Delete - non-notable web forum; fails WP:WEB. The page was initially tagged for speedy deletion as an attack page, but the tone of the page has become less disparaging since. Fabricationary 02:48, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep - This is one of the UKs most popular internet forums and is certianly the largest Off Topic Forum in the World, since January 1st 2006. It is well known in the media and is a grapevine for current events in sport and news alike. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KrisDorey (talk • contribs) 5 August 2006
  • Comment - If the above statements can be verified by reliable sources (i.e. more than just the forum's own statistics), then I'd be willing to change my position. As it stands, I can't find any media coverage of this specific forum, and Alexa traffic rankings only cover the full domain, not individual pages. -- H·G (words/works) 19:08, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, as I see it, it's not debatable at all. It almost certainly doesn't meet the first two prongs of WP:WEB. The third ("a site which is both well known and independent of the creators") has not been established in the article, which WP:WEB requires ("the article itself must provide proof that its subject meets one of these criteria via inlined links or a "Reference" or "External link" section"). Until verification can be provided that the article meets any of the criteria, it certainly fails WP:WEB. -- H·G (words/works) 23:30, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Maybe keep, definitely rename. The term "off topic forum" is in common use on any number of websites, so notable as this particular forum may be, the title isn't particularly appropriate. I was the one who db'd the article early on, as I assumed it was a prank article about the "socially inept" members (as the article phrased it at the time), but in it's current state I'd say assume good faith and see where it goes, so long as it goes there under a more appropriate (and less appropriative) name. SB_Johnny | talk 23:49, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Changing my vote to Delete after another read. With the exception of the first paragraph or so the article is just silly cruft. If it's a web phenom, all the article needs to say is that it's a phenom, and why. --SB_Johnny | talk 18:14, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Agreed that is a good page but despite being the biggest OTF, the page could be placed under the header of SI OTF or somethingKrisDoreyAdam

User has already logged his "vote" once. Striking out duplicate to reflect this. -- H·G (words/works) 19:49, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - The last thing that flangepieces like Argel need is publicity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.13.154.132 (talk • contribs) 6 August 2006
  • Delete. More of your general forum vanity. Should we really care about which individual member posted what? JIP | Talk 17:58, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete typical forum vanity entry, complete with a list of the moderators! Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 18:24, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per above. — Dark Shikari talk/contribs 18:51, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per Starblind.--Andeh 19:45, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per Starblind. --Wafulz 21:00, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete tried to check out board to see if it was worthwhile. You need to register just to look at the board. If this were a notable board, you wouldn't have to. Stev0 21:24, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Should be kept and tried as an organisation and not web content. The web is merely the medium for the informal organisation of like-minded users. "Organizations are usually notable if the scope of activities are national or international in scale and information can be verified by a third party source." The scope of the forum is certainly notably international and the fact the pre-registering and approval is required to view the forums sets it apart from being a run-of-the-mill online community and it is a member's organisation. Activities undertaken by the organisation include a charity bike ride around the world and meetings in London and Amsterdam. 68.145.107.234 00:21, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • There's already an article for the organisation at Sports Interactive. This article is about the forum, which isn't notable.--Andeh 09:45, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      • Failed to comprehend the point there. The forum in itself could be considered an independent, albeit informal, organisation separate from SI or anyone. There is international scope and notable events which give this forum an extra dimension from most other Internet forums. Okayplayer has been mentioned, a band called Los Campesinos! have been championed on OTF and recently signed a deal, in part thanks to the exposure received on OTF. Just because there is a general nature to the movement instead of a specialised one does not mean it should be deleted. It should, of course, be completely re-written. 68.145.107.234 21:23, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, this article is about as useful as a happy meal without a toy — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.207.122.13 (talk • contribs)
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The result was delete. Sango123 00:51, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Meanspark

Article for non-notable project, probably vanity. Very little context, no references and no assertion of notability. Only four unique GHits for "meanspark". Prod removed without comment or improvement. ~Matticus TC 17:55, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sango123 00:51, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Grand Marloboro Soccer Club

This club appears not to meet WP:V. Searches for information on a club named Grand Marloboro or Grand Marlboro turn up nothing. Oldelpaso 18:05, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete all. Kimchi.sg 02:49, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

List of United States Governors by name:B

The start of another superflous list, this subject is more than adequately covered by categories. Also these other related pages;

RMHED 18:04, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy redirect. JYolkowski // talk 19:21, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Names given to the divine

Is redundant of information at Names of God. Also, quality of the article and detail is inferior to Names of God. Merge has been proposed since May, and I've inserted everything into Names of God that was worth including. In addition, more editors contribute to Names of God. -- Wikipedical 19:01, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy delete under G4 The JPStalk to me 12:19, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thenomo

Article contains made-up/fictional information presented as fact. Article was previously deleted by speedy process but recreated by the original author FelineAvenger 19:02, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sango123 00:51, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Glass the Land

Page contains made-up or fictional material presented as fact FelineAvenger 19:07, 6 August 2006 (UTC) By the way, I previously had nominated related article Thenomo for speedly deletion, and the article was recreated by the original contributor User:Asadaleem12@hotmail.com. I am therefore nominating both that article and this one throught the more involved afd process. FelineAvenger 19:14, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete all. - Bobet 13:33, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

N-Tegrity

Contested prod. Non-notable company fails WP:CORP, despite the creator's undoubtedly sincere protestations otherwise. Includes nice big link to the company's homepage. The creator's only contribs relate to data security software, including edits to Password manager and Disk encryption software that helpfully point readers of these articles to the company's web page. I am also nominating these related pages for deletion:

VoiceOfReason 19:16, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment to Yomangani: The company did NEVER have a court against Verizon, neither against other company or institution. I will highly appreciate if your notes will be more reliable. Concerning "notability" - several government and public institutions in Israel and Europe has selected the company as a security services provider and its products as a solution of choice. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eugene Cuprin (talk • contribs) 01:37, 7 August 2006
I apologize, I thought perhaps this press release was saying they did was a reliable source [33] Yomangani 09:54, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I do apologize: I was misled by the nomination implying it was a company rather than a product (and by the complete lack of anthing but bullet points in the article). However, discounting this just means it is less notable, so my opinion stands. Yomangani 13:11, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Read WP:CORP very carefully. I have, and I see three criteria, none of which is having been selected by several government and public institutions in Israel and Europe as a security services provider. VoiceOfReason 11:46, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment to VoiceOfReason: Pointing of reader to the company's web page was removed. Both n-Pass and n-Crypt are outstanding software applications that include multiple unparallel features. Their only fault was to be developed by "non-notable" company. Let it be. So delete the company info and keep the software, which methodically belongs to Password manager and Disk encryption software sections. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eugene Cuprin (talk • contribs) 01:37, 7 August 2006
They may be outstanding, they may be unparalleled, but they are not notable by the standards specified in WP:SOFTWARE. Regarding "methodically": you keep on using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. And please sign your comments on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~). VoiceOfReason 11:46, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Excuse my lack of punctuality --Eugene Cuprin 12:50, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete all per nom. Typical self-interest editing pattern. JonHarder 20:39, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Don't delete - Please pay attention to the newly added links to independent reviews of the product and the company under the category "Reviews and external links" Northern
Where would they be? Yomangani 13:20, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/N-Pass Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/N-Crypt

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