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Advice about a nomination

Hi, I thought I'd seek advice here about nominating the Ruth Archer article, as it entered the mainspace in an unusual way. I was working on the article in my userspace and had planned to bring it to DYK when it was ready. A few hours ago, I noticed that another editor had copied my draft and published it in the mainspace with no attribution to me (they didn't once communicate with me about it). Two lovely administrators came to my rescue and my draft was moved into the mainspace. So, I'd like to know if the article is still eligible for DYK or not? - JuneGloom07 Talk 00:23, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

@JuneGloom07: I've seen this happen before, and the answer is definitely yes. The article was published with this edit, and it's certainly new enough. -Zanhe (talk) 00:33, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Thank you! - JuneGloom07 Talk 00:39, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

I hope you cried "Aww naaaaw!" when you found it had been moved. This is a joke (allegedly) for people who listen to The Archers; everybody else can skip over it. Belle (talk) 01:49, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

I wish there was a like button for that comment. And yes, I did. - JuneGloom07 Talk 02:03, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

{{like}} might be what you're looking for. GRAPPLE ^X 10:15, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Technically, the admin who did it wasn't doing a copy from user space. It was a page move. Which begs the question of "Why??" I have to say I'm stunned two levels. The first is why an admin did that at all, much less on a day and time when the editor was obviously in the midst of editing it. The second is that a page move like that is automatically labeled by the system as a minor edit. Another admin long ago and far away advised me to create and store my articles off line, and to do anything but minor editing the same way. Now I see why. — Maile (talk) 12:12, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

The answer is: No one cares who put the article in mainspace except those who want to be noted they have the 'credit' for it (DYK etc). If someone thought the article was well-written and sourced enough to be moved to mainspace, off to mainspace it goes. Once you write something on wikipedia anywhere it ceases to be 'yours' in the ownership sense, so unless there is a policy-based objection, its not an issue. Only in death does duty end (talk) 12:28, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

The policy at play here is Wikipedia:Copyrights. As the OP states in his second sentence, the article was copied without attribution to the text's original author. The article being copied from user space to the article namespace without the required attribution to the original author is a blatant copyright violation. While a person posting any text to Wikipedia is at the same time agreeing to license that text under a set of free licenses, the terms of those licenses must still be respected by anyone wishing to reuse the text. --Allen3 ^talk 13:48, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Page move != copy. Only in death does duty end (talk) 14:04, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

The original statement makes it clear that a page move was performed by different users after the draft was initially copied. GRAPPLE ^X 14:07, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Check the logs. What happened was someone did a copy+paste of the article from JuneGloom07's draft to mainspace. The administrator came along and deleted the copy-paste as a copyvio, then moved the draft to main space in the proper manner to maintain attribution. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 14:10, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Ah, I was responding to Maile who indicated the *original* move was a page move (rather than fixing the issue). Happy to be corrected. Only in death does duty end (talk) 14:11, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

And so you are correct, Grapple X and ONUnicorn. I was confused by the edit history that only shows edits by JuneGloom07 and the admin who did the move. That being the case, I'm not so amazed about the copy and paste. In fact, something like that almost rates a yawn, except for the editor it happens to.— Maile (talk) 14:15, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I see nothing in WP:USER to support OID's view, or apparently yours, that it's just fine to move somebody else's user content to mainspace without consultation - quite the opposite. In fact, I would describe such an action as not only not supported by the guideline, but extraordinarily ill-mannered, as well as being contrary to the project's convention of collegiality. It simply shouldn't be done. Gatoclass (talk) 16:00, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Just to clarify: I dont think it is particularly collegial to *move* someone elses draft from userspace to main without consultation, however it isnt against policy and since attribution is kept there isnt a policy (or CC-violating) reason not to, and no real response other than to not worry about it and deal with it. There have been complaints before about drafts being moved before the author is ready for it with varying results. There probably *should* be an addition to policy explicitly prohibiting it without consultation, however I have no idea where it would go and it would run (in essence) counter to wikipedias release of material and the OWNership guidelines - if you feel there is somewhere it can be wedged in feel free to drop me a line on my talk page and I will draft something up. As its been clarified that it was originally copied rather than moved (I was responding to Maile rather than the original post) most of the above doesnt really apply to this discussion and can be written off as an aside. Only in death does duty end (talk) 16:18, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

You are correct that it isn't technically against policy, but it flies in the face of WP:NOBAN and other aspects of WP:UP#OWN. I'm not sure it would be possible, or even desirable, to outright ban such page moves given the licencing conditions, but certainly one should consult with users regarding content in their own user space, and respect their desires concerning it, unless there is very good reason not to, such as when they are employing user pages to retain problematic content that would be unlikely to survive in mainspace. Gatoclass (talk) 16:36, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Gatoclass This whole thread is starting to be a trip through the looking glass, so let me please straighten out how I feel.

- First of all, Gatoclass, OID and I were not expressing the same point of view.

- Second, when I initially looked at the edit history and thought the move was an admin whim, rather than a corrective response, I was surprised an admin would do anything like that.

- My second comment above was in response to being corrected that the first offense was someone actually doing a copy and paste from a user's page to mainspace. When I said I was not so amazed by the copy and paste, I was not saying I approve. That's happened to me, and it still ticks me off. But I'm not amazed when anyone does that. It's so easy to pull off. — Maile (talk) 16:37, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Well it sounds as if we are in furious agreement. Thanks for the clarification :) Gatoclass (talk) 16:44, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

@JuneGloom07: I'm not clear if you were asking if it will continue to be eligible for DYK beyond the normal seven days because it was moved to mainspace without your agreement? I'd think not, but you can always nominate it within the time limit and then (unless you get very unlucky) you can continue to work on it for months (crazy system? don't look at me; I wanted to change the rules). Belle (talk) 14:32, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

So long as the article is nominated by September 24, everything should be fine. While JuneGloom07 may wish to do further work on it, it's quite advanced (over 20K prose characters) and well sourced. I don't see any reason for the nomination, once made, to be delayed beyond the normal reviewing time, which could be short or quite long depending on the fates. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:57, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

I had planned on nominating the article today, but I wanted to double check that it was still eligible for DYK following all the kerfuffle surrounding the move into the mainspace yesterday. Unbelievably, a slightly similar thing has happened to me again! I think I might have to work offline from now on. Thank you all for your help and advice. - JuneGloom07 Talk 16:14, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Error on main page: Kadmat Island

Nonsense on main page, so I removed it.[1] Both Agatti Island and Bangaram Atoll are also open to foreign tourists. Fram (talk) 12:13, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Note that on skimming recent DYKs from the main page, I find things like:

• • Yesterday, "... that Abbas Ali Baig was the first Indian cricketer to be kissed on the field?" Nope, the source states that he was the first Indian Test cricketer to be kissed on the field.[2]
  • 13 September, "... that St. Paul's Cathedral, Kolkata (pictured), the largest in the city, was the first Episcopal Church of Asia and the first to be built in the overseas territory of the British Empire?" I don't think so... Built between 1839 and 1847, no episcopal church was built in any British overseas territory before that? Not even e.g. Cathedral of the Holy Trinity, Gibraltar (built 1825-1832), to give a DYK-relevant example? Or St. George's Cathedral, Chennai, a cathedral since 1835? Or St. Thomas Cathedral, Mumbai? Or... .

Feel free to ping all editors involved, I really can't be bothered anymore. Fram (talk) 12:57, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Well, to be honest, you could also stop with the drama and Just fix it, rather then Crusading against windmills.--Kevmin § 16:20, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

I can fix one or two entries, yes (and I did pull that one from the main page), but I will not be around to edit much longer, and it doesn't look like many other people are interested in fixing it. Perhaps we do need to take other measures, like keeping "score" on who reviews and promotes incorrect hooks. Anyone who makes a habit of it shouldn't be doing it. Perhaps it will improve DYK, perhaps it will bring it to a halt, both options are quite acceptable outcomes. Fram (talk) 19:33, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

I think you have a point, Fram, that hooks relating to "firsts", "only"s and so on probably need some extra scrutiny, and it may be useful to add something to the guideline along those lines. I might point out, however, that if DYK sometimes errs regarding hooks of this type, they are usually doing no more than repeating errors in the underlying source. Gatoclass (talk) 17:26, 18 September 2015 (UTC)