Talk:House mouse

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Life Cycle

When do female mice cease being able to reproduce? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.17.154.61 (talk) 00:00, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

When they reach menopause. duh! lol. or when they refuse infertility treatments? haha, is this a joke? Punkymonkey987 (talk) 02:31, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Population

Could they perhaps be THE most numerous mammal on the planet? After all, wherever we go, mice follow. I wouldn't be surprised if they came to the moon if we ever set up a colony or research station there.I doubt it people are always laying traps. Mice run VERY FAST so make sure you watch out and the mice can get hurt very easily! REMEMBER THAT!!!

I don't know about these most populous rankings. Urban myth would indicate that Rattus Norvegicus gives it a run for its money as do sheep. May I request a citation to support this claim. That would be interesting. Shoot me down in flames if you know better but this looks like a very dubious 'pubfactoid'. That is a 'did you know' fact people come out with down the pub.

--Dan Allen 09:14, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

The citation added to this claim was to someones account of their war time experiences and although mentioning mice, not directly relevant to the second most populous ranking. If it still isn't cited in a month, I'm removing it.

--82.26.82.102 20:11, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I added the first plausible website reference I could find. It was still saying citation needed. I was curiously looking what could be the most populous mammal on earth, when I found out they probably mean man. As I have a plague of mice and probably killed some 100 of them (and they are still eating poison), I wonder if mice would not be more numerous than man (in population count). In body mass, I guess humans are the most populous.

--87.64.195.78 03:21, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

See Lee Silver's "Mouse Genetics" at the MGI site for verbatim quote, and see list of references. Very much NOT a 'pubfactoid' - Berry, R. J. (1981). Population dynamics of the house mouse. Symp. zool. Soc. London 47: 395-425.

Subspecies

This is what I would add to the subspecies section:

• Mus (musculus) musculus Linnaeus, 1758 (East European House Mouse)
• Mus (musculus) castaneus (Waterhouse, 1843) (Southeast Asian House Mouse)
• Mus (musculus) domesticus (Rutty, 1772) (West European House Mouse)

An additional subspecies was described by Prager, Orrego and Sage (1998) from the Arabian Peninsula:

• Mus musculus gentilulus Thomas, 1919
  
  

The following were previously identified as subspecies, but have since been found to belong to the subspecies above:

• Mus musculus homourus (Hodgson, 1845)
• Mus musculus molossinus (Temminck, 1845; the Japanese house mouse - actually a hybrid of musculus, castaneus and domesticus, Bonhomme 1989)
• Mus musculus bactrianus (Blyth, 1846)(southwestern Asian House Mouse)
• Mus musculus brevirostris (Waterhouse, 1837)
• Mus musculus praetextus (Brants, 1827)
• Mus musculus spicilegus (Petényi, 1882)
• Mus musculus spretus (Lataste, 1883)
• Mus musculus manchu (Thomas, 1909)
• Mus musculus orientalis (Cretzschmar, 1826)
• Mus musculus tytleri (Blyth, 1859)
• Mus musculus urbanus (Hodgson, 1845)
• Mus musculus wagneri (Eversmann, 1848)

There is also a lot of information that should be mentioned when creating new subspecies entries in the future:

• Mus (musculus) musculus: Schwarz & Schwarz give the following synonyms: Mus striatus Billberg, 1827; Mus albicans Billberg, 1827; Mus niveus Billberg, 1827; Mus hortulanus Nordmann, 1840; Mus nordmanni Keyserling and Blasius, 1840; Mus helvolus Fitzinger, 1867; Mus tomensis Kastchenko, 1905; Mus raddei Kastchenko, 1905; Mus tataricus Satunin, 1907; Mus sareptanicus Hilzheimer, 1912; Mus germanicus Noack, 1918; Mus heroldi Krausse, 1922; Mus funereus Ognev, 1924; Mus borealis Ognev, 1924; Mus hapsaliensis Reinwald, 1927; Mus vinogradovi Argyropulo, 1933; Mus nogaiorum Heptner, 1934; Mus polonicus Niezabitowsky, 1934; Mus kaleh-peninsularis Goodwin, 1940.

• Mus (musculus) castaneus (Waterhouse, 1843) was originally described as Mus castaneus by the author. Schwarz & Schwarz give the following synonyms: Mus manei Gray; 1843, Mus rama Blyth, 1865; Mus taitiensis Zelebor, 1868; Mus albertisii Peters and Doria, 1881; Mus commissarius Mearns, 1905; Mus canacorum Revilliod, 1914; Mus momiyamai Kuroda, 1920; Mus sinicus Cabrera, 1922; Mus mystacinus Mohr, 1923; Mus dunckeri Mohr, 1923; Mus frederici Sody, 1933; Mus mohri Ellerman, 1941.

• Mus (musculus) domesticus (Rutty, 1772) was originally described as Mus domesticus by the author. Schwarz & Schwarz give the following synonyms: Mus albus Bechstein, 1801; Mus flavus Bechstein, 1801; Mus maculatus Bechstein, 1801; Mus niger Bechstein, 1801; Mus islandicus Thienemann, 1827; Mus adelaidensis Gray, 1841; Mus nudoplicatus Gaskoin, 1856; Mus varius Fitzinger, 1867; Mus cinereo-maculatus Fitzinger, 1867; Mus melanogaster Minà-Palumbo, 1868; Mus albinus Minà-Palumbo, 1868; Mus rubicundus Minà-Palumbo, 1868; Mus poschiavinus Fatio, 1869; Mus flavescens Fischer, 1872; Mus simsoni Higgins and Petterd, 1882; Mus muralis Barrett-Hamilton, 1899; Mus subterraneus Montessus, 1899; Mus faroensis Clarke, 1904; Mus ater Fraipont, 1907; Mus airolensis Burg, 1921; Mus jamesonii Krausse, 1921; Mus subcoeruleus Fritsche, 1928; Mus formosovi Heptner 1930; Mus caudatus Martino, 1934; Mus mykinessiensis Degerbøl, 1940.

• Mus musculus homourus (Hodgson, 1845) was originally described as Mus homourus by the author. Schwarz & Schwarz give the following synonyms: Mus nipalensis Hodgens (nom. nud.), 1841; Mus darjilingensis Hodgens, 1849; Mus kakhyenensis Anderson, 1878; Mus caroli Bonhote, 1902; Mus ouwensi Kloss, 1921; Mus formosanus Kuroda, 1925; Mus tantillus Allen, 1927; Mus taiwanus Horikawa, 1929; Mus boninensis Kuroda, 1930.

• Mus musculus molossinus (Temminck, 1845) was originally described as Mus molossinus by the author. Schwarz & Schwarz give the following synonyms: Mus rotans Fortuyn, 1911; Mus kurilensis Kuroda, 1924; Mus orii Kuroda, 1924; Mus yonakuni Kuroda, 1924; Mus albula Minouchi, 1928; Mus kambei Kishida and Mori, 1931; Mus tokagii Kishida and Mori, 1931; Mus yamashinai Kuroda, 1934; Mus longicauda Mori, 1939; Mus kuro Kuroda, 1940.

• Mus musculus bactrianus (Blyth, 1846) was originally described as Mus bactrianus by the author. Schwarz & Schwarz give the following synonyms: Mus gerbillinus Blyth, 1853; Mus theobaldi Blyth, 1853; Mus gentilulus Thomas, 1919.

• Mus musculus brevirostris (Waterhouse, 1837) was originally described as Mus brevirostris by the author. Schwarz & Schwarz give the following synonyms: Mus abbottii Waterhouse, 1837; Mus parvulus Tschudi, 1844; Mus azoricus Schinz, 1845; Mus mollissimus Dehne, 1855; Mus nattereri Fitzinger, 1867; Mus flavescens Barrett-Hamilton, 1896; Mus jalapae Allen and Chapman, 1897; Mus caoccii Krausse, 1920; Mus far Cabrera, 1921; Mus percnonotus Moulthrop, 1942.

• Mus musculus praetextus (Brants, 1827) was originally described as Mus praetextus by the author. Schwarz & Schwarz give the following synonyms: Mus gentilis Brants, 1827; Mus rebudia Loche, 1867; Mus pallesceus Heuglin, 1877; Mus candidus Laurent, 1937.

• Mus musculus spicilegus (Petényi, 1882) was originally described as Mus spicilegus by the author. Schwarz & Schwarz give the following synonyms: Mus acervator Petényi, 1882; Mus acervifex Petényi, 1882; Mus canicularius Petényi, 1882; Mus caniculator Petényi, 1882; Mus sergii Valch, 1927.

• Mus musculus spretus (Lataste, 1883) was originally described as Mus spretus by the author. Schwarz & Schwarz give the following synonyms: Mus hispanicus Miller, 1909; Mus lusitanicus Miller, 1909; Mus mogrebinus Cabrera, 1911; Mus lynesi Cabrera, 1923; Mus rifensis Cabrera, 1923.

• Mus musculus manchu (Thomas, 1909) was originally described as Mus wagneri manchu by the author. Schwarz & Schwarz give the following synonyms: Mus yesonis Thomas, 1928; Mus takayamai Kuroda, 1938.

• Mus musculus orientalis (Cretzschmar, 1826) was originally described as Mus orientalis by the author. Schwarz & Schwarz give one synonym for that subspecies: Mus vignaudii Prévost and des Murs, 1845.

• Mus musculus tytleri (Blyth, 1859) was originally described as Mus tytleri by the author. Schwarz & Schwarz give no synonyms for that subspecies.

• Mus musculus urbanus (Hodgson, 1845) was originally described as Mus urbanus by the author. Schwarz & Schwarz give the following synonyms: Mus dubius Hodgson, 1845; Mus viculorum Anderson, 1878.

• Mus musculus wagneri (Eversmann, 1848) was originally described as Mus wagneri by the author. Schwarz & Schwarz give the following synonyms: Mus major Severtzow, 1873; Mus tokmak Severtzow, 1873; Mus pachycercus Blassford, 1875; Mus bicolor Tichomirov and Kashkarov, 1889; Mus gansuensis Satunin, 1902; Mus mongolium Thomas, 1908; Mus severtzowi Kashkarov, 1922; Mus oxyrrhinus Kashkarov, 1922; Mus decolor Argyropulo, 1933; Mus bieni Young, 1934.
  
  

Note that all subspecies given here were originally described as true species, except Mus musculus manchu!

from Schwarz & Schwarz, 1943 The wild and commensal stocks of the house mouse Mus musculus Linnaeus Journal of Mammalogy, pp. 59-72

Elatrin (talk) 14:43, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Question

I have a question that hopefully someone can answer for me, my roommate just caught a rather small mouse in our apartment (by catch I mean he actually caught it humanely, not in a trap), he now is keeping it in a large box in our room as our pet. Is there a significant risk of disease from having him around here? What kind of disease? Would people advise release? Thanks for any help!

Don't know about the disease, but I do know that I wouldn't be happy if someone grabbed me by the neck and put me in a box. Cheers, AxelBoldt 22:47, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Discussion for merge suggestion for C57BL/6

I dont see a need to merge. There are lot of data on each of the lab strains. we should have separate articles on each of them. --Dr.saptarshi 07:07, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. There are probably lots of articles of strains of lab mice on Wikipedia already. This article could use a list of those in the end, though. // habj 09:33, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Also don't see need to merge. A link from house mouse with a short summary referring to the full article on BL6 would be better. Jasu 13:52, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I too oppose the merge. --Jcbutler 00:25, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

No need to merge. The C57BL/6 article stands well on its own. It's also practical. Anyone who needs the C57BL/6 information for business or science purposes would appreciate that it had its own entry. Dr. Saptarshi's idea of seperate articles for each lab strain is something I support. Again, no layperson researching 'house mouse' is going to be thinking in the back of their mind, "What was that I heard about C57BL/6 on the news the other day?". 67.121.144.150 11:13, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I also oppose the merge: a C57BL.6 is very different to a "house mouse" and the info contained in the two articles would be of interest to substantially different readerships. PMN 032207

I don't think it is a good idea either, and since it's obviously not going to reach consensus, I'll go ahead and remove the merge tags. —Celithemis 23:58, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Addition

Something about the ability of the mouse to get into tight places, underneath doors, through holes that look impossible for them to go through, etc. would be relevant. Also, something that talks about what they can gnaw through - IE, how strong their teeth are.

Why the M

May I ask why is "Mouse" capitalized in this (and various other animal) article's names? I would have thought it would be more logical for them to be lower case, since they aren't a proper noun? Sorry if this is the wrong place to write this, kinda new here... :) Aillema 22:21, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

I was wondering that myself. A quick Google search suggests that sometimes the M is capitalized, and sometimes it isn't elsewhere on the Web, though I wonder if any of the other capitalizations are influenced by the capitalization here on Wikipedia. 24.124.50.106 (talk) 09:41, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

theres a Mouse in the House :0 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.122.79.188 (talk) 14:22, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Article titles are like sentences in that the first word is capitalized whether it's proper or not. The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 19:18, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 16:22, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

---

House Mouse → House mouse — Bwrs (talk) 20:03, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support per WT:RODENT#Capitalisation: reliable sources mostly use sentence case (for example, [1]). Ucucha 20:16, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
• Comment: I don't much care either way, but I should note that the reasoning behind the capitalization is that it differentiates the whole name "House Mouse" as a species name. This is exactly the same as if my name was Steven Wall; we use the caps - not not Steven wall - to make sure people know it's my surname. That said, WP:TITLE supports using the most colloquially used name, and even the Encyclopedia of Life doesn't use the caps for mouse. Steven Walling 20:34, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Ah, but Steven Wall is a human being, not a Human Being, and Mickey Mouse is a house mouse, not a House Mouse. Station1 (talk) 21:55, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

You have a point. :) Steven Walling 09:40, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

• Support as per guideline and discussion at WP:RODENT. —innotata (Talk • Contribs) 15:59, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Mice

how many are born in mice litter? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.72.237.153 (talk) 02:38, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Priorities, people: Subgenus but no Domain?

What is more redundant than a Subgenus? The Species is very arguably the real Subgenus, as it is always the full Genus and not the Sub- that is the Genus Taxon at the front of a binomial for a Species, or for that matter the trinomial for a Variety/Subspecies, or the quadennomial for an Infraspecies/Race. (Even if these terms aren't regarded as synonymous, I still keep seeing them in various places used one or the other depending what species is being further divided, which is different from one being above the other.) Anyway, I get yelled at for including Domain, which I'm pretty sure was recently elevated to a major rank just like Kingdom and the others below it, and here I see a Subgenus in a Taxobox. The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 19:31, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

The subgenus here is directly above the taxon discussed, and therefore can be included. Ucucha 23:41, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Most other Articles that discuss individual Species stop at Genus rank, aside from the Species-level taxon discussed. Given how binomials work, the fact remains that a Subgenus is never needed for reference. The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 01:37, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Most genera don't have subgenera. Use of the subgenus here provides additional context (the subgenera of Mus are quite distinctive). Ucucha 01:42, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

wordy gurdy

instead of:

House mice consume and contaminate food meant for humans, pets, livestock, or other animals. In addition, they often cause considerable damage to structures and property. They can transmit pathogens that cause diseases such as salmonellosis, a form of food poisoning.

how about:

House mice consume and contaminate food, pet food and animal feed. In addition, they often cause considerable agricultural and property damage. They also transmit disease causing pathogens and parasites.

i simply found the original text a bit wordy and redundant. Vinithehat (talk) 05:23, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Is the picture of a Japanese mouse a rat?

The photo of what is called a japanese mouse looks more like a rat. Any experts out there? DrChrissy (talk) 15:01, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I meant the video of the Japanese house mouse looks like a rat. DrChrissy (talk) 15:03, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

If you look at the full size video:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mus_musculus_-_japanese_house_mouse.ogv

It looks less ratty. The white fur on the tail make it appear bald and more rat-like. ViniTheHat (talk) 20:20, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm unable to play the video. The still image appears to show ears and a thick tail that to me, look more like a rat, however, I have never seen a Japanese house mouse before. Thanks for your input. DrChrissy (talk) 12:28, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

I think it's just a fancy colored regular house mouse, who just happens to be in Japan. It didnt look too special. : ) ViniTheHat (talk) 14:51, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia is NOT a marketing platform

Deleted what initially appeared to be suspicious content about mice as carriers of nasty cooties, with a footnote link that had no text except for another numbered hyperlink, said link ultimately leading to an exterminator's sales page. One good thing came of the ruse: I registered with Wikipedia to edit, after years of merely reading.Lala Catnip (talk) 11:29, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Is Mice as an invasive species accurate?

The section Mice as an invasive species finishes 'The estimated 700,000 mice on the island kill a total of over one million bird chicks per year'. This seemed rather a lot of deaths to me, but on checking the reference given, I can find no estimates of mice population or the number of chicks killed. I propose to delete this sentence unless there is a reference supplied. DrChrissy (talk) 12:36, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Reproduction

The latest changes to this article reverse previous statements, i.e. 'Males reach sexual maturity at about eight [previously six] weeks and females at about six [previously eight] weeks, but both can breed as early as five weeks.' Neither version has a citation or link. Surely this is a case where the information should be verified - whichever is correct should be allowed to remain. DrChrissy (talk) 18:59, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

T-haplotype section

I'm not convinced of the utility of the T-haplotype section - it is overly complex and too specific compared to the rest of the article. I'd like to remove it but wondered what other people think? Sarahburge (talk) 10:19, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Sentence on euthanasia deleted

I have deleted the sentence on narcotization being necessary before physical methods of euthanasia. This is for two reasons. First, this is not true in the UK (and probably other countries). Second, the cited web page states 'Physical methods of euthanasia, for example cervical dislocation or decapitation, can be performed without prior narcotization only if scientifically justified in the Animal Study Proposal and approved by the Animal Care and Use Committee.'__DrChrissy (talk) 16:40, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Split into House mouse and Laboratory mouse

I propose that this article is split into two, i.e. House mouse and Laboratory mouse. There seems to be sufficient information for seperate articles, and very good reasons for considering them seperately (even though they are the same species). This has already been done for Rat and Laboratory rat. It might also then be possible to merge the information for the different strains into Laboratory mouse, but this is a discussion for later. So, should the article be split?__DrChrissy (talk) 18:14, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Suggestion for change item Mice and humans, the part about diseases

House mice can sometimes transmit diseases, contaminate food and damage food packaging. There is no justification though for incriminating the house mouse (the mus musculus) in the genesis and maintenance of dangerous human diseases. Although the American CDC (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) gives a list with diseases transmitted by rodents, only few of the diseases are transmitted through the house mouse. These are not commonly reported infections in humans and most infections are mild and are often never diagnosed. The reason the house mouse has a bad reputation is that it is often confused with all kind of other mice or rodents.

In western Europe there are hardly any diseases carried by the house mouse. The situation is different depending on the continent, country, city, neighbourhood, the subspecies of Mus Musculus, location and overall hygiene in a certain neighbourhood and most importantly the specific house.

Lymphocytic choriomeningitis (LCMV) can be transmitted by mice but is not a commonly reported infection in humans, though most infections are mild and are often never diagnosed. When bringing a new pet rodent into the home, it is difficult to be sure it is LCMV free. Serological testing is not reliable for ensuring that an individual rodent is LCMV free. That’s why testing of pets is not recommended by the CDC. Infected colonies of research animals are usually euthanized.

If there are few diseases in the local population, there is less chance diseases spread. If for example about 1 to 5% of the human population has antibodies for LCMV, and the house mouse 4 to 14% and hamsters in a pet store 4% one can question who gets LCMV from who or what

There is some small concern however, especially in the USA, that women should be modestly alert not to be infected with LCMV during pregnancy. So maybe in this period they should make an extra effort to avoid getting in contact with rodents and/or their excrement, also pets

The domestic mouse is not a dangerous vector of human plague (bubonic plague) because it is much less infested with fleas than the rat, and because the flea which it naturally harbours exhibits little tendency to attack man in default of its natural host.

The Hantavirus, is a potentially fatal virus but transmitted by rodents such as deer mice. Other rodents, including house mice, are rarely if ever carriers of the virus.

Salmonella live in the intestinal tracts of humans and other animals, including birds and reptiles. Salmonella are usually transmitted to humans by eating contaminated food, including food contaminated with animal feces, so also house mice. That's why it's important to keep mice away from food. And in the end this is the only way to keep mice away. No food = no mice. Feces of birds and reptiles should be of more concern though. Lyme disease is transmitted by ticks, which may be carried by white-footed mice.

Rickettsialpox is spread by mice in general, is very rare and generally very mild and resolves within 2–3 weeks if untreated. There are no known deaths resulting from the disease. Murine typhus (also called endemic typhus) is caused by the bacteria Rickettsia typhi, and is transmitted by the fleas that infest rats. While rat fleas are the most common vectors, cat fleas and mouse fleas are less common modes of transmission. Endemic typhus is highly treatable with antibiotics. Most people recover fully, but death may occur in the elderly, severely disabled or patients with a depressed immune system. Leptospirosis is more often transmitted by dogs (urine) rats, the greater white-toothed shrew (Crocidura russula), the common vole (Microtus arvalis), the muskrat (Ondatra zibethicus) and almost any other mammal. Leptospirosis is transmitted by the urine of an infected animal, and is contagious as long as the urine is still moist. Mice don’t need to drink much. Their body is very efficient in taking all the water they need from their food. Male mice scent-mark their territories with urine streaks though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Floris5 (talk • contribs) 23:42, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

According recent research the house mouse is so close to us that it’s absence might even proof worse for people’s health. Children that are exposed at a young age to dander, excrement and certain microorganisms it contains are less likely to develop asthma and allergies.

If there is no food in the house but you do have insects in or under the house, mice can even be useful by eating them. And if one leaves food for birds in the garden, and leaves it there during the afternoon, evening and night, one can be sure that house mice eat most of it leaving people wonder why they see little birds but lots of mice playing around well fed. Another possibility is to be friendly to mice as one is to birds, or even see them as pets that don't need any care. All animals can bring diseases. But as the research above suggests, maybe we're better of with than without the house mouse.

References

I'm just off to bed but before I go I will make a quick comment. Although you may have a point about the diseases a couple of sentences should be all that is need to sort that out. Your last point about mouse urination is completely wrong. mice certainly do drink, although in the wild it is quite conceivable that they get most of their water from their diet. I have no idea what the Dutch paper says but house mice urinate almost constantly and use the the urine for scent marking - much experimental work has been done on this. Google "mouse urination" and you will find papers such as Rates of urine excretion by the house mouse, Sex differences in mouse urination patterns, and Molecular Heterogeneity of Urinary Proteins in Wild House Mouse Populations. To quote from Proteins in urine scent marks of male house mice extend the longevity of olfactory signals - "Dominant male mice scent-mark their territories extensively with urine streaks...The nature of their response suggests that, from a distance, mice may be unable to tell whether airborne signals emanate from scent marks or from the donor himself and we suggest that this may provide territory owners with a major advantage in defending their territories". I did try linking to these but, unfortunately, some of the sites are whitelisted by by Wikipedia and you can't link to them. I have worked with lab mice for most of my working life and i can assure you that the overwhelming odour in any mouse unit is ammonia from their urine. Although the laboratory is an artificial environment and they are fed on dry food which is always supplemented with water it is clear form the above mentioned papers that urine marking is an important factor in the wild. Richerman (talk) 01:28, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

OK, having been to bed I have now spent a little time on this and can add some balance to the points you've made - more to come as I have more time:

First of all, salmonellosis is probably the most common disease that is spread by mouse dropping and faeces and I'm sure that before we had antibiotics this would have been quite a problem. I have given some references below with quotations from them about other diseases:

[2] Lymphocytic choriomeningitis is a viral infection that can be found in wild rodents, primarily the common house mouse (Mus musculus). Infected mice can appear healthy while being infectious. Infection in commercially obtained pet rodents from reputable dealers is unusual; however pet rodents can become infected by exposure to wild mice. People can become infected after exposure to urine, droppings, saliva, or bedding of infected rodents. Infection is also possible if these materials are inhaled (aerosol transmission). Various studies on blood samples from people suggest that approximately 5% of people have been exposed to this virus; fortunately most people who are infected have very mild or no signs of illness. However, the virus can be transmitted from pregnant women to their fetus and can cause fetal death as well as severe birth defects while the mother experiences very mild or no signs of illness.

[3] Page 5 - The reservoir host serves as a common infectious pool whereby disease carrying microorganisms are transferred from infected to uninfected ticks....The White footed mouse is an excellent reservoir host for Lyme borelliosis - house mice are also competent reservoir hosts but only carry about 10% of the tick infestation borne by white footed mice.

and on page p407 talking about crimean-congo haemorrhagic fever - small mammals seem to have the greatest potential to contribute to maintenance and transmission of the CCHF virus in Europe, Eurasia and the Middle East. Numerous species are infected with the virus in the wild including .... Mus musculus bactrianus.

Richerman (talk) 10:46, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

hi Richerman, salmonellosis is spread by contaminated food, of course this could be contaminated by house mice, but that's why it's important to keep mice away from food. I searched for CCHF virus and it says it is spread by Mus musculus bactrianus, which is the Southwestern Asian House Mouse, or do you have other info? Then I changed the urination part. Then about LCMV: It seems there is some conflicting references about whether the house mouse is "to blame" or that the house mouse is just one of many ways this disease, mostly benign, mild, if at all spread by the house mouse. On wikipedia and many other sources it says "LCMV is naturally spread by the common house mouse, Mus musculus", but the source for this statement is Hill, A. Edward (1948). "Benign lymphocytic meningitis". Caribbean Medical Journal XI (1): 34–7.. According http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16731068 though, that's true: Obstetricians should educate their pregnant patients about the risks of exposure to laboratory, pet, and wild rodents. as this is the most important source for concern about public health. On http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22889536 it says: Lymphocytic choriomeningitis virus: an underrecognized cause of neurologic disease in the fetus, child, and adult.

ok, can somebody turn this into standard english, since it's not my native language, and of course shrink it to 50% of the enormous text it has become now... tnanks Floris5 (talk) 06:37, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

BTW, shouldn't be there a section about how to keep the house mouse out of your house?

Mouse control section

This article is about the House mouse - the animal - not about it being a pest. Recent edits have been made giving unverified statements about how to control the animal when it is considered to be a pest. I tried to alert editors by adding that citations should be given. I suggest this entire sub-section should be removed, although I believe these edits have been made in good faith. unsigned post by user:DrChrissy

I agree and I've removed the section. I'm sure the additions were made in good faith but it was entirely the wrong tone and mostly unreferenced. I'm not against having a section on mouse control but it must be a simple reporting of what methods are used and not give advice on how to use them. Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, not an instruction manual see: wp:NOTAMANUAL. I've also removed a lot of the information that had been added about diseases as it was full of opinions, irrelevant information about other species and synthesis. There may be uninformed prejudices out there but we counter these by adding simple, unbiased facts - not by adding our own opinions and not by synthesizing sources to show that other species are more likely to be vectors of disease. For instance, I can't read the Dutch papers that were cited, but I'm sure they don't advocate inviting House mice into our homes to improve our children's immune systems. I'd missed the last postings from Floris5 but when I have some time I'll have a go at rewriting the section using some of the sources given above unless someone else does it. Richerman (talk) 15:04, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

but I'm sure they don't advocate inviting House mice into our homes to improve our children's immune systems

Yes, funny enough, they actually do exactly that: http://www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749%2814%2900593-4/fulltext . And you can put the Dutch text in Google Translate... Floris5 (talk) 20:27, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

After a quick read-through I can't find it in the paper you have linked to. The closest I can find is where it says "Conceptually, in environments characterized by high allergen exposure, our results raise the possibility that enhancing microbial exposures could be more effective than allergen abatement. Moving forward, the challenge will be to define whether specific allergen- and bacteria-associated mechanisms account for these effects to enable formulation of evidence-based interventions" Have I missed something? I have also run the text from the Dutch article about the Hygiene hypothesis through google translate and there is no mention of exposure to mouse allergens or bacteria at all - only experiments carried out on laboratory mice. There is a mention of bacteria but the google translate (somewhat broken) English version says "One of the most convincing to me is the study of Swiss children [who] grew up on a farm," says Prof. Mary Yazdanbakhsh (Parasitology). "They were found to have much less chance of allergies than children from the neighborhood who also grew up in the countryside, but not on a farm. In the stables and through contact with the animals, the peasant children with all kinds of bacteria in touch" In other words, early contact with bacteria from farm animals seems to be beneficial. You seem to be falling into the trap of using wp:synthesis to support your conclusions. Richerman (talk) 21:56, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

It says "mouse" in the paper on the link provided and on http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24908147 : Results: Cumulative allergen exposure over the first 3 years was associated with allergic sensitization, and sensitization at age 3 years was related to recurrent wheeze. In contrast, first-year exposure to cockroach, mouse, and cat allergens was negatively associated with recurrent wheeze (odds ratio, 0.60, 0.65, and 0.75, respectively; P ≤ .01). Differences in house dust bacterial content in the first year, especially reduced exposure to specific Firmicutes and Bacteriodetes, was associated with atopy and atopic wheeze. Exposure to high levels of both allergens and this subset of bacteria in the first year of life was most common among children without atopy or wheeze. Conclusions: In inner-city environments children with the highest exposure to specific allergens and bacteria during their first year were least likely to have recurrent wheeze and allergic sensitization. These findings suggest that concomitant exposure to high levels of certain allergens and bacteria in early life might be beneficial and suggest new preventive strategies for wheezing and allergic diseases.. But I'm sure there now comes a rule, that must be there somewhere, that says that an encyclopaedia can't depend on one source or research ;-)

About the Dutch article on the Hygiene hypothesis: Indeed they don't mention mouse allergens or bacteria. Funny that they do mention a German study from 2009 in which they administered a nasal spray with bacteria from a farm to pregnant mice predisposed to asthma and by doing so their offspring developed no asthma. I'm pretty sure the mice don't have much problems with mice allergens though. The article is from the University of Leiden, Netherlands. There is research and the group from this University is also doing research on the Indonesian island of Flores on the effect of worms on the immune system. They have found that the absence of worms (as in modern societies) is an important reason for developing more allergies and asthma. They don't propose not to clean your house anymore or to give you a worm infection, but they are "trying to isolate the molecules that can reduce the risk of getting allergies and autoimmune diseases".

The newspaper Trouw article says: Babies who are born in the city have less risk of developing asthma and allergies when there are also animals around. And not just pets like cats, but also pests like cockroaches and mice. According to research by leading US allergists, pulmonologists and pediatricians that was published in an American journal (that is the research mentioned above). Babies who are exposed in their first year of life to dander of cats and mice, droppings of cockroaches and certain bacteria it contains, are less likely to develop asthma and allergies by the time they are 3 years old. The effect was already known to children who are born in rural areas with many livestock. According to the researchers, the outcome of the investigation is no reason not to keep the house clean. But maybe a little less. Because a little less clean environment triggers the immune system to fight relatively harmless things like pollen, dust mites and animal dander. (they obviously mean: not to fight) Floris5 (talk) 05:14, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

You're quite right, silly of me to miss that reference in the link. There is no problem with using a single source as long as you don't give it undue wp:weight. As for the worms - I've heard of that before. There has been research about the effect of hookworms on the immune response in autoimmune diseases such as ulcerative colitis. There is even a bit of a cottage industry in culturing the worm eggs to deliberately infect people with the disease, although it's definitely not a strategy recommended by the medical profession. As soon as I have some spare time I will have a look at rewriting that section for you. Richerman (talk) 11:51, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Fools rush in where angels fear to tread, I would think it difficult to cover the issue in a way that reflects the truth rather than the collective 'wisdom' of the population as a whole. In the case of a breeding pair and a reasonable food supply, house mouses can produce a litter of about 6 about every 6 weeks. They are highly suspicious of traps, however baby mouse are less risk adverse than adults, so even if traps are successful, they are more likely to be removing babies which aren't the problem as opposed to the breeding female. In many cases there's not a breeding female and the problem goes away come spring when the mouse ventures outside and falls prey to predators. Ultimately the answer is to remove food sources from mouse reach (or to get a cat), but still every general store seems to sell mousetraps. I don't understand how mice can retrieve food from all manner of strange objects but know to ignore food placed in traps, but that is my observation. Presumably most research available will be produced by the pest control industry with not much counter argument available?80.1.165.31 (talk) 20:53, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

All one big happy family clade...

This article seems to be putting too much emphasis on the fact that "Mice are ... amongst the closest relatives of humans other than lagomorphs, treeshrews, flying lemurs and other primates". It makes more of a mention of it than the rodent article does, which would seem to be a more relevant place to make the comparison. Is there any particular reason for making such a big deal of it? I assumed the article would do on to explain the significance of this (e.g. relevence to using mice as lab animals), but I didn't see anything about that.Iapetus (talk) 17:32, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Best way to get rid of house mice

Ok, understood, WP is not a "how to do"... But please help me a little. Yes indeed, I'm here to defend the house mouse a little because the words mouse and mice in general are far too often confused with the house mouse, mus musculus. Under pig there is a section about (serious) health issues for humans. Nothing is mentioned about "applying laws and regulations" or "comply with the law" for pest control or extermination of the pig by "using pathogens or predators, as well as poisoning and trapping" like the section "As pests and disease vectors" under rodent does mention explicitly. One refers to the pest management manual of the US CDC: http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/ehs/docs/ipm_manual.pdf and to the UK's HGCA's "Rodent control in agriculture guide" (http://www.hgca.com/media/177133/g56_rodent_control_in_agriculture_-_an_hgca_guide.pdf).

On it's own webpage about diseases directly transmitted by rodents in general, at http://www.cdc.gov/rodents/diseases/direct.html, the CDC explicitly mentions the house mouse only as a minor threath to public health, mainly because of LCM being a minor threath to pregnant women. LCM can also be transmitted by other animals and pets.

The Agriculture and Horticulture Development Board is a so called QUANGO and "under consideration" (see http://www.channel4.com/news/bonfire-of-the-quangos-promised and http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20101125071349/http://download.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/ndpb/public-bodies-list.pdf), a quasi-autonomous non-governmental organisation, as such being criticised for many years. HGCA is a division of the Agriculture and Horticulture Development Board (AHDB), a statutory levy board, funded by farmers, growers and others in the supply chain and managed independently of both commercial industry and of Government (http://www.hgca.com/corporate.aspx). So not really independent or governmental enough to decide about extermination of the house mouse and to "comply with the law". HGCA's main objective is to promote agriculture and their own products and services, not public health, and preventing crops and storage being damaged by rodents.

So can I delete the alinea starting with "Because rodents are a nuisance and endanger public health, human societies often attempt to control them." under the section "As pests and disease vectors" at the rodent article? Since WP is not a "how to do" and the references are questionable?

For people trying to specifically get rid of house mice, here is what I find useful to tell them: If one wants to rule out any chance of the house mouse spreading any diseases, the only practical working solution (for me) is to prevent the house mouse from entering the house. Try to find all holes larger than 1 cm and use metal materials like aluminium foil or steel whool. If you can prevent a mouse from getting it's daily 3 grams of food (as an average) by keeping your house clean and storing food in a safe place, you won't have a mouse problem almost by definition. Well, if your neighbour is not that clean you can hear them walking around... Keeping it clean is a non harmful way for the mouse as well as people. Especially using poison, because what's bad for the mouse will probably also be bad for humans or their pets, as one's cat might eat the poisoned mouse. While leaving food around any other method is pointless since any dead mouse, by poison or trap, is replaced quickly by another brother or sister. There will be as many mice as there is food. Floris5 (talk) 00:17, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

It is self evident that mice are a nuisance, endanger public health to a certain extent, and that human societies often attempt to control them. The references given are fine to support that statement. Richerman (talk) 21:01, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

haha, you're just teasing me here :-) Floris5 (talk) 00:29, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

@Foris5 Your information is really original research. I'm afraid it really does not belong in an encyclopaedia.DrChrissy ^(talk) 22:16, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

@DrChrissy Do you mean the last paragraph above here? I totally agree, that's why I posted it here. But what about the first 3 paragraphs? So, from "Ok, understood, WP is not a 'how to do'" till "Since WP is not a "how to do" and the references are questionable?". There I tried to explain that the above mentioned references used in the article about rodent(s) are biased and questionable. They give citations/references for the idea that as Richerman puts it not very encyclopaediacly that "it is self evident that mice are a nuisance, endanger public health to a certain extent".

It's exactly what I try to explain: why say "it is self evident that mice are a nuisance and endanger public health" while in my opinion dogs and cats are more a nuisance to me and also endanger my health more than the house mouse by (for dogs) peeing against the front of my house next to my front door and spreading leptospirosis that way, right on the spot where I put my bags with groceries to open my door. And about cats, I tried to help a cat that was trapped in my garden once and hang with one frontleg in a wire. I wanted to free the completly stressed cat but he bit me in my arm as a thank you. I needed strong and new antibiotics to get over the infection caused by it. The owner only told me that it was stupid of me and that I should have called the pet ambulance we have here. So I make sure no cats can enter or leave my garden anymore (well, with my help of course they can) and house mice and the complete common blackbird family is welcome instead. A little sanctuary in the middle of an enormous amount of belligerent cats in the center of Amsterdam! Floris5 (talk) 00:23, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

BTW, it's another tip, as long as you leave something to eat, enough for 1 house mouse, so 3 grams, at a different moment each evening (and keep everything completly clean and hide all food), something very funny happens. In stead of a house mice invasion, running around your whole house, you just see the same mice once in a while, inside and outside in the garden, and they defend their territory from other mice entering my house. Especially since they are waiting for their daily meal. I know, it sounds a little too much, but I make video's of them, have them on Youtube, and I can recognize certain house mice, for example one has had a fight and misses some hair in her neck. She is with only 1 child inside and outside the whole time. So, I really think social behaviour and real amounts of house mice earn more decent and honest research. As said before, it's physically and scientifically impossible to have more mice than you have food littering around in a ratio: 1:8 as a mouse of 24 grams needs 3 grams food a day because of their fast metabolism. So, last time, house mice are not the problem, littering food around by lazy people is... Floris5 (talk) 01:05, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Polyandry

The diversity of alleles increases in offspring from multiply mated females than those from singly mated females. [4]

Thonhauser, K. E., Thob, M., Musolf, K., Klaus, T., Penn, D. J. 2014. Multiple paternity in wild house mice (Mus musculus musculus): effects on offspring genetic diversity and body mass. Ecology and evolution. 4: 200–209.

The proper citation will need to be added to this on the Article page - currently it is listed as a link to the abstract, but the full article citation is neededEvol&Glass (talk) 23:11, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Below are some references to learn more about polyandry in the house mouse (Mus musculus musculus). Feel free to comment about the articles!

Thonhauser, K. E., Thob, M., Musolf, K., Klaus, T., Penn, D. J. 2014. Multiple paternity in wild house mice (Mus musculus musculus): effects on offspring genetic diversity and body mass. Ecology and evolution. 4: 200–209. [5]

Firman, R.C., Simmons, L.W. 2008. Polyandry facilitates postcopulatory inbreeding avoidance in house mice. Evolution. 62: 603-611. [6]

Dean, M.D., Ardlie, K.G., Nachman, M.W. 2006. The frequency of multiple paternity suggests that sperm competition is common in house mice (Mus domesticus). Molecular ecology. 15: 4141-4151. [7]

Arnqvist, G., Nilsson, T. 2000. The evolution of polyandry: multiple mating and female fitness in insects. Animal Behaviour. 60: 145-164. [8] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shannon.tai (talk • contribs) 21:47, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

In the section on evolutionary consequences, I furthered it by creating the subheading: Intrauterine Insemination. Furthered information on polyandry in respect to two related house mouse species Mbastani (talk) 00:28, 26 October 2015 (UTC)mbastani

Polygamy

Hello all, I am currently in the process of doing research on polygamy in the house mouse. Below are just four of my preliminary sources. Feel free to give me suggestions of anything you think I should take out, or on any major articles I should use that I currently do not have. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

1. Dobson, F. S., and Baudoin, C. (2002). Experimental tests of spatial association and kinship in monogamous mice (Mus spicilegus) and polygynous mice (Mus musculus domesticus). Can. J. Zool. 80, 980–986.

2. Szenczi, P., Bánszegi, O., Groó, Z. and Altbäcker, V. (2012), Development of the Social Behavior of Two Mice Species With Contrasting Social Systems. Aggr. Behav., 38: 288–297. doi: 10.1002/ab.21431

3. Firman, R. C. and Simmons, L. W. (2010), EXPERIMENTAL EVOLUTION OF SPERM QUALITY VIA POSTCOPULATORY SEXUAL SELECTION IN HOUSE MICE. Evolution, 64: 1245–1256. doi: 10.1111/j.1558-5646.2009.00894.x

4. Klemme, I. & Firman, R. C. 2013: Male house mice that have evolved with sperm competition have increased mating duration and paternity success. Anim. Behav. 85, 751—758.

Pubh101 (talk) 02:01, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Just wanted to say that I added a polygamy section onto the main article. It is still in its rough draft stages and I will be improving it, but it is a tentative section I have written. Any suggestions are welcome. Thanks! Pubh101 (talk) 07:56, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

The section looks OK but, as a rule, you should use your sandbox for rough drafts rather than putting them in mainspace articles. Richerman (talk) 15:56, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. The alternative is to create a sandbox for the article (House mouse/sandbox), but the same thinking applies. Either way, other editors could have addressed the problems such as referencing style before the problems have hit the mainspace article.DrChrissy ^(talk)

Hey, does increasing male fitness also increase in reproduction from that specific male? Sluology (talk) 03:55, 26 October 2015 (UTC) And also, does polygamy lead to decrease in inbreeding depression?Sluology (talk) 03:55, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Comments for polyandry section

I rephrased some wordy sentences, edited some structural errors, and rearranged sections. I also added the link to the word, inbreeding depression, in order to clarify the meaning of it for the readers.

For the paternity confusion, it will be more helpful to put information about the process of confusion of mice in order to be clear how polyandry cause confusion. In addition, it would be more clear to explain what kind of conflict there is where you said “there is conflict when multiple sets of gametes are present intrauterine in female house mouse [...]” The overall general information of polyandry is good, but it would be better if more details about paternity confusion and intrauterine Insemination (evolutionary consequences of polyandrous house mice) are added. Jihyek13 (talk) 03:32, 26 October 2015 (UTC)