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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 211.23.25.61 (talk) at 07:02, 12 November 2015. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Hui people

The Huis are exempted from this policy. This could be incorporated into the article by the main contributors.

Joyson Prabhu Holla at me! 10:26, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

    • Can't immediately document this but I believe (was told this when I visited China) that an exemption or special allowance applied to all national minority ethnic groups, especially those living in rural areas. I don't think there's a particular reason to single out the Hui. Hopefully more general documentation can be found.~Mack2~ 04:39, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Forced sterilizations

Hello, it would be nice to have some more info on forced sterilizations. These old slogans (now getting phased out) corroborate roumors that in some cases tubes used to be (or perhaps still are?) forcibly tied immediately after women give birth, in the labour room? 220.246.134.47 (talk) 02:05, 6 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Growth rate plot / misleading caption

Hello, I feel that the graph of population growth vs. year does not support the notion of 'strong growth in spite of the one-child poliy'. the growth is clearly (albeit slightly) sub-linear whereas an exponential rate were to be expected without birth-control measures - however, the actual reason might be a decreasing birth rate due to increasing wealth outsizing any effect of population control measures. what do other people think ? does anybody have references addressing the separation of said factors ? comment added by Q-lio (talk) 12:16, 8 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I agree it's not really strong growth; I've removed the "strong" qualifier to make it more reasonable. Since the fertility rate has been below replacement since the 1990's, all the growth since then comes from the demographic momentum, which only a "zero-child policy" could have prevented. --Roentgenium111 (talk) 19:32, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Changed caption to "Population of China 1961-2008" since it does not convey much meaning. --Krishna Pagadala (talk) 00:34, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Fairly accurate article

Having some amount of expertise on this subject, I would like to commend the Wikipedia community for posting a fairly accurate depiction of the one-child policy in China. Most Americans I talk to imagine a draconian policy rigidly enforced. This Wikipedia article gives some idea of the vagarities involved, while still explaining what the policy was supposed to be, as well as a useful graph showing the steady increase in population. Good job Wikipedia!

116.55.65.71 (talk) 17:35, 8 February 2013 (UTC) ↔ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.9.206.198 (talk) 16:38, 23 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree; more than 50% of the article is devoted to poorly evidenced, sensationalist and POV criticism of the policy, such as the promotion of infanticide or gender based-abortion (the sex ratio chart used as circumstantial evidence for this also lacks a decent reference).
While there is plenty of discussion of how oppressive the policy is, there is little information about the policy itself; the article is very vague when it comes to discussing enforcement of the policy, stating that 'fines' are the main enforcement mechanism, but then misleads the reader by using an example of the 'fine' or rather 'contribution' that would be paid by someone earning 200,000 yuan, which is an astronomical salary compared to the average annual salary in Beijing, the country's richest province, of 56,000 yuan; because the fine is based on disposable income, the fine/fee for someone earning 200,000 is exponentially larger than the average fine/fee, which may not be levied on poor families at all.
Also, the claim that families may have to pay for health-care and education themselves is unreferenced and a bit rich, considering the healthcare and education funding models used in the West and even other parts of the developing world.
The only other enforcement mechanism mentioned is forced abortions and sterilisations, for which, again, the article fails to provide any evidence, other than an article from the (right-wing) Daily Telegraph which asserts that Huaiji County instituted a 'quota' of 20,000 abortions and sterilisations, but provides no evidence for such an assertion. This plays into the narrative of communist bureaucrats rounding up women and sterilising them concentration camp-style; typical Communist Party-bashing. In fact, the overly critical tone of the article seems to be anti-CPC, or anti-communist in general. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.220.70.14 (talk) 15:14, 28 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Even the Chinese government's People's Daily admits the past (?) local use of forced sterilizations and abortions, quoting explicit slogans: "If you don't receive the tubal ligation surgery by the deadline, your house will be demolished!" "We would rather scrape your womb than allow you to have a second child!" "Kill all your family members if you don't follow the rule!" --Roentgenium111 (talk) 17:06, 2 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I hope that you are just lazy and simply didn't bother to read that article you quoted. At no point does it say any forced sterilizations or abortions were carried out; the article is criticising, not past, but recent explicit slogans like the ones you mentioned. These slogans are nothing to do with the Chinese government and are attributed in the article to "Some local officials in rural areas" and, in the first paragraph of the article you cited, describes the threats contained therein as "criminal acts"; i.e. not government policy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by InternationalistChap (talk • contribs) 15:47, 3 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The quoted slogans are an explicit declaration of forced sterilizations being carried out, unless you want to accuse these local officials of publicly lying.
I never claimed that forced abortions were an official government policy; they're not. But any local officials are employed by the (local or central) government, so the government is responsible for their "criminal" behaviour, in the end. --Roentgenium111 (talk) 12:16, 14 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Surely you can see that the quoted slogans are NOT an explicit declaration of forced sterilizations being carried out, they are an explicit declaration of a THREAT to carry out forced sterilisations. We do not know that the local officials really intended on carrying out their threats, they were more likely to have been trying to scare people; there is certainly a culture of corrupt and bullying behaviour by local officials in China, especially in rural areas, but this is the case in any country (take a look at the recent events in Ferguson in the US). But even if they WERE intending on carrying out their threats, there is still no evidence that they DID carry out any of these threats, or that anyone else did in the past; there is no evidence of of forced sterilizations being carried out. As I said, even if such evidence did exist, it is not the fault of the government; they have defined it as a criminal act in the article you quoted; I don't see how they can be held responsible 'in the end' as you suggest, any more than the US federal government is responsible for the actions of the police officer in Ferguson. — Preceding unsigned comment added by InternationalistChap (talk • contribs) 20:22, 16 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Zhang Yimou Case and Suggested Equitable Fining Paradigm

Equitable fines based on total nett asset. A flat 10,000 yuan fine would be painful to a lower class earner, but to Zhang Yimou, that would be nothing. Use a percentage total nett asset based fine instead, probably 30% of net asset, since overpopulation could destroy China? So if Zhang is worth 100 million, the fine should be 33.3 million. For that lower earner say for example, if worth 50,000 in totality, the fine should be 16,666 yuan instead - also 30%. The fine of 1.23 million yuan is nothing to the USD$70,000,000 US Dollars that Zhang Yimou has which equals 423.6 MILLION Yuan and is a mere 0.25% of Zhang's entire wealth. Just totally unfair as opposed to the poor. Using a percetiage based fine would be equitable.

Reference Link : http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/entertainment/2013-12/10/c_132956022.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:E68:4000:15:1C39:8F3B:8AEE:CB75 (talk) 22:56, 5 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hui people Family Planning

Family planning among Hui Muslims in China. Many Hui Muslims voluntarily limit themselves to one child.

http://ilookchina.net/2010/11/05/exemptions-in-chinas-one-child-policy/

Do not use this blog directly as a soure, but it contains references to reliable sources itself.

http://ningxiaunveiled.wordpress.com/family-planning/

20:00, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

Origins not clear

Can't quite trace the evolution of the policy. Did Mao come round to seeing the drawbacks to population maximizing? Or were some of his ministers planning to start the new policy as soon as he died? Valetude (talk) 09:42, 1 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The article says, "The one child policy had been planned as early as 1977 [i.e. after Mao's death], although it was not mandated nationwide until 1979." But Mao himself seems to have supported the previous voluntary two-child policy (from 1970).--Roentgenium111 (talk) 17:10, 2 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Population pyramid

I'd like to suggest the inclusion of a population pyramid of China and perhaps one of India as well, for comparison.

No other single graph can show whether a one-child policy would be effective. For example, the current "population growth" graph is misleading in that the full effect of lower birth rates can only be seen after enough of the older generation have passed away. Very low growth rates can imply negative population growth in the long run regardless of continued population increases in the short run. - Comparing the size of the "added" (new born) age groups with the oldest (passing away) age groups determines population growth. - Comparing the size of the newest added (new born) age groups with the age group directly above (previous new born) to determine birth rates.

http://www.prb.org/images12/china-india-population.gif http://lewishistoricalsociety.com/pictures/albums/userpics/1148055065.gif — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.240.151.165 (talk) 11:42, 24 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Totally agreed. There used to be a pop. pyramid in the article (until at least 2012), someone seems to have removed it without discussion. --Roentgenium111 (talk) 13:31, 23 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Changing section heading from "Alleged birth reduction"

I changed the section heading Alleged birth reduction to Overstatement of effect on birth reduction. This change was reverted with the explanation that "Alleged is more accurate and "overstatement" is opinionated". It also said 'good faith edits', I'm not sure if this means that it was reverted in good faith, or that I had changed it in bad faith. Anyway, the section is about how Zhai Zhenwu's estimation of 400 million births prevented is disputed by Wang Feng, who estimates the figure at 200 million; i.e. Wang is accusing Zhai of overestimating/overstating the one-child policy's effect on population growth. This means that my word choice, overstated is actually accurate, and nothing to do with my personal opinion. However, Alleged birth reduction implies that the assertion that there has been an effect on birth reduction at all is in dispute, when in fact both Wang and Zhai agree that the policy has had an affect on birth reduction, the effect is not 'alleged', it is only the scale of that effect that is in dispute vis. 200 million versus 400 million; either way it has had a pretty big impact according to the evidence presented in the section; nothing in this section suggests that there has been zero impact, therefore alleged is inaccurate word choice, although I wouldn't say it's opinionated... I'm not sure what opinion it would indicate, or about what... — Preceding unsigned comment added by InternationalistChap (talk • contribs) 22:52, 29 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Even the 200 million is maximum bound assuming no further changes in fertility due to demographic transition. Wang has written others papers referenced in the article on this matter. My guess is that the actual extra fertility reduction is in the low 10's of millions if that. --Krishna Pagadala (talk) 00:38, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Deletions in the 'Sex-based birth rate disparity' Sub-section

The Sex-based birth rate disparity subsection in the effects section was extremely long and only two paragraphs of it touched on the one-child policy, and even those did so only tangentially. I have deleted all but those two paragraphs. All of the deleted info is covered in more detail in the 'Missing women of Asia' article, which is also linked at the top of the sub-section. I think it is pretty obvious that it was off-topic, but seeing as it was such a significant amount of text that was deleted (owing to the unwieldy, unnecessary length of the section itself), I thought I'd start a new section here for anyone who thinks it should be reinstated to give their reasons. InternationalistChap (talk) 04:17, 30 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Lead graf needs editing

We probably need to reword the entire first graf, or rethink the approach to the article. The "one child policy" is no more, but the "family planning policy" still is, with a limit of two children. So we need to draw that distinction. Though this article is indeed titled the "one child policy," so we may need to think about a renaming as well? -- Fuzheado | Talk 15:27, 29 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This article title needs to say as is, maybe a new article could be created for Family planning in China. --Krishna Pagadala (talk) 04:12, 1 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The entire introduction (the bit before the table of contents) is garbage. It says it started being phased out in 2015, then later says the two-child policy will only take effect after being ratified in 2016. There is also a lot of repetition, redundancy, and the like.211.23.25.61 (talk) 07:02, 12 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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